We Now Have A Cb-03-01 Vehicle That Works

[Desmond_84]

Hi guys. I have some really exciting news to share.

We finally have a working vehicle for CB-03-01

I’ve had some spare time over the last 2 months and finally got around to doing some research on the chemical properties of CB-03-01 and possible vehicles that would be suitable for it.

I’m pretty sure everyone on this forum is on the same page about what features we want in an ideal vehicle. At the end of the day, if you are applying it to your scalp once or twice a day on an ongoing basis, it needs to be cosmetically elegant, non-irritating and actually absorbs into the hair shaft.

So, after a lot of digging around, I was intrigued by a range of topical vehicles marketed at compounding pharmacies to use with their actives. It’s called TrichoConcept by Fagron. Out of the whole range, two really stood out to me, the TrichoOil and TrichoSol.

So, I managed to get some samples from the company and did some testing and TrichoSol proved to be the best one out of the two. TrichoOil was way too oily and probably would make the thinning areas more see-through which is not what we want. TrichoSol on the other hand really impressed me. It was elegant and dried up instantly without making my hair look dry or thinner than it was.

So, what is TrichoSol? Here is everything I could find on it:

TrichoSol is a highly spreadable hydrophilic solution containing mineral salts of vegetable origin. I was surprised to find out, it actually managed to stimulate human fibroblasts proliferation in an in-vitro study all on its own! Here's the study if you want to look into it yourself:

In Vitro Effects of the Phytocomplex TrichoTech on Human Fibroblasts: Proliferative Potential and Effects on Gene Expression of FGF-7 and FGF-10
DOI: 10.4236/jcdsa.2017.71001

It also has some incredible properties. Here's some to name a few:

• Proven stability with water-soluble and liposoluble Actives (Minoxidil, Finasteride and Dutasteride). All actives remained stable for 3 months when added to TrichoSol.
• Non-irritating vehicle
• Alcohol-free
• Does not cause hair dryness
• Provides a simplified method to prepare topical scalp formulations

I then used the company's TrichoConcept Formulary as a guide to formulate my own CB-03-01 topical solution and it worked like a charm! Here is the formulation for a 100mL bottle:

CB-03-01: 2-4 grams
PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil: 3 grams
Ethoxy Diglycol: 5 mL
TrichoSol: qs 100 mL (Add enough to fill to volume)​

It's also not too expensive. 1 Liter costs around US$135 and should last you at least 6-9 months.

In terms of ordering it, you might be able to ask your local compounding pharmacies and see if they are willing to sell it to you. I can always get everyone some if people are keen.

Hope this is helpful everyone.

Cheers,

Des

 

[NorwoodGuardian]

Hello Desmond, I have to buy from you. How to pay you?

 

[jumpingjackgazz]

Hi Desmond_84,

Very interesting !
Do you think this can be used to vehicule lactoferrin also ?
There is the same kind of discussion in the Lactoferrin thread :
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/lactoferrin-as-a-promoter-of-hair-growth.122314/

ciao

 

[NotInmywatch]

very interesting that you have not seen CB precipitation in a HYDROPHILIC vehicle, which is theoretically impossible
but if you haven't seen clumps or powder at the bottom of the vessel and the transcutol seems to be enough then this should be ok.

"It was elegant and dried up instantly " this is not necesarrily good because proper absorption takes time depending on the vehicle.
remember minoxidil 4 hour requirement?

thanks for your contribution!

 

[noveau22]

Hmm I'd like to try it and perhaps buy it from you if possible. Perhaps enough to last a month to see if it works for me or not.

Did you actually notice less shedding etc...?

 

[MeDK]

I then used the company's TrichoConcept Formulary as a guide to formulate my own CB-03-01 topical solution and it worked like a charm! Here is the formulation for a 100mL bottle:

CB-03-01: 2-4 grams
PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil: 3 grams
Ethoxy Diglycol: 5 mL
TrichoSol: qs 100 mL (Add enough to fill to volume)

wouldn't you keep it all in the same units to maintain the relation to the different ingredients?

 

[CapiLarry]

that's good work!

not to hijack the thread at all - but is there conclusive evidence from users here that CB has made a cosmetic difference?

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

It's not the first time this guy presents the perfect vehicle for CB, just saying...

 

[MeDK]

It's not the first time this guy presents the perfect vehicle for CB, just saying...

are you saying that peoples homemade regiments isn't world class hair loss science ?! and on this forum ?!

 

[Michael1986]

that's good work!

not to hijack the thread at all - but is there conclusive evidence from users here that CB has made a cosmetic difference?

I don't believe there is. Also, the results of the phase 2 CB (Breezula) 12-month trial were slightly disappointing. The efficacy of CB appeared to decrease considerably between 6 months and 12 months of usage.

 

[Left4bald]

Thanks @Desmond_84

It's not the first time this guy presents the perfect vehicle for CB, just saying...

And ?? It's Desmond ! A great member who I followed since many years (bald truth talk). He is a pharmacist if I remember well, and yes he has already proposed a solution for CB, but like all researchers, he tries and find the solution! You ? what do you do for us ?

 

[MeDK]

Thanks @Desmond_84



And ?? It's Desmond ! A great member who I followed since many years (bald truth talk). He is a pharmacist if I remember well, and yes he has already proposed a solution for CB, but like all researchers, he tries and find the solution! You ? what do you do for us ?

if he is a pharmacist, why isn't his measurements more accurate? I would expect that to be quite basic for a pharmacist?

2-4 grams, it might not seems at much when its so small measurements, but there is a difference factor 2 in difference, and then the weird units with volume and weight.

why do one liquid in grams and the others in volume?

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Thanks @Desmond_84



And ?? It's Desmond ! A great member who I followed since many years (bald truth talk). He is a pharmacist if I remember well, and yes he has already proposed a solution for CB, but like all researchers, he tries and find the solution! You ? what do you do for us ?

I am analyzing papers for the community so you don't buy snake oil such as Zinc-Thymulin. I think I am doing my part.I just find it a bit dubious that he is selling a flavor of the month vehicle every trimester or so.

 

[kiwipilu]

if he is a pharmacist, why isn't his measurements more accurate? I would expect that to be quite basic for a pharmacist?

2-4 grams, it might not seems at much when its so small measurements, but there is a difference factor 2 in difference, and then the weird units with volume and weight.

why do one liquid in grams and the others in volume?

that's not a big deal. mix all the first 3 ingredients in a measuring container and fill to 100ml. the only variable is CB ; 2-4 is minimal a range this "should potentially" work. obviously it also depends on what money people can spend. But he could have written 2 - 7,5grams(highest concentration in the trial and the most effective).

 

[kiwi666]

but CB doesn't even work itself

What. A. Looser.

 

[whatevr]

Anyone remember when it was this?

https://www.b aldtruthtalk.com/threads/17682-We-have-a-vehicle-for-CB-03-01-VERSAPRO

5 years ago people were talking about this sh*t. Five. f*****g. Years. What a joke.

 

[NotInmywatch]

Anyone remember when it was this?

https://www.b aldtruthtalk.com/threads/17682-We-have-a-vehicle-for-CB-03-01-VERSAPRO

5 years ago people were talking about this sh*t. Five. f*****g. Years. What a joke.

I think what OP is trying to convey is a cosmetically aceptable vehicle
I concede that despite CB correctly working as expected, my dried up hair with ethanol looks horrible
So, any improvement on that would be welcome.

 

[nonconformist]

Can anyone give me your opinion if dutasteride with trichosol at 0.01% concentration would have systemic effects or due to the size of the dutasteride molecule would not it? I would appreciate any opinion, thank you.

 

[hilbert]

nice work, but i'll go on with the vehicle in the patent: the local & systemic absorption rate and speed were measured (in vivo) with that. so play it safe.

 

[Desmond_84]

Do you think TrichoSol can also be used as a vehicle for Lactoferrin? (Jumpingjackgazz)

You can certainly levigate Lactoferrin with Ethoxy Diglycol before dissolving it in TrochoSol and then keep it suspended with PEG-40 Castor Oil, but then you have an absorption problem. There is an upper limit on topical absorption of drug molecules called the ‘500 Dalton’ rule. Molecules with a mass greater than 500 daltons are usually very difficult to absorb through the skin. There are some techniques to increase absorption using fancy penetration enhancers but Lactoferrin is such a large molecule (~80,000 Daltons) that I don’t think it’d be possible to get it past the stratum corneum. I’ve seen Lactoferrin as an over-the-counter supplement though so maybe taking it orally is the best option.


Very interesting that you have not seen CB precipitation in a HYDROPHILIC vehicle, which is theoretically impossible but if you haven't seen clumps or powder at the bottom of the vessel and the transcutol seems to be enough then this should be ok. (NotInmywatch)

I was also initially concerned about the suitability of TrichoSol being hydrophilic, despite Fagron’s assertions. That’s why I also tested the TrichoOil which is designed for lipophilic actives. But Fagron has reassured me that TrichoSol has the capacity to carry up to 10% of its total volume in lipophilic compounds.

TrichoOil is certainly always there as an alternative but it does leave your hair shiny and oily the whole time. I think TrichoOil would be suitable for lipophilic compounds that have to be prepared in concentrations above 10%.

I’m still waiting to get the full list of ingredients from Fagron for TrichoSol, but you can tell from its odour it definitely contains some essential oils that are helping it carry lipophilic compounds.


"It was elegant and dried up instantly " this is not necessarily good because proper absorption takes time depending on the vehicle. Remember minoxidil 4-hour requirement? (NotInmywatch)

Sorry I should have been clearer. TrichoOil kind of stays on your scalp looking glossy pretty much the whole day until you wash it off, whereas TrichoSol dries up within 10 minutes or so, allowing you to go about your day without being self-conscious.

I am a compounding pharmacist and since March we have switched our patients on Topical finasteride/minoxidil from Ethanol/PG formulation to TrichoSol and they absolutely loved it. No one has experienced a shed and it seems to be working as well as the old vehicle. So, I wouldn’t worry about its ability to absorb chemicals into the hair shaft.

Hmm I'd like to try it and perhaps buy it from you if possible. Perhaps enough to last a month to see if it works for me or not. (noveau22)

Now, just for the record, I don’t wanna look like a shill. And those of you that know me know I would never push some snake oil. I just haven’t been as active in the recent years as I used to be, so many people might not even know who I am. I’m only here trying to help everyone especially those that can’t use Finasteride.

As we all know, Shiseido has seen delays, and the rest of upcoming treatments are looking to be post-2020 including Breezula. I’m a big believer that knowledge is power. I’m merely empowering everyone with the ability to keep their hairlines above baseline until better solutions become available.

Having gotten that out of the way, I’m happy to provide anyone that would like some. I have to think about how to do it without revealing anyone’s anonymity. I can post an email and people can contact me directly I suppose. I’m open to suggestions tbh.

With regards to trying a little bit, I can always send you a starter kit maybe? You’d need 100mL of TrichoSol, about 10mL of PEG-40 and 10mL of Ethoxy Diglycol.

I’ll figure it all out and get back to you on that

Wouldn't you keep it all in the same units to maintain the relation to the different ingredients? (MeDK)

Hi MeDK. If I’m not mistaken, I believe you are referring to why some ingredients being presented in grams and some in mL. In order to have an accurate weight (grams) of liquids, you would need to know their true density at a given temperature. Not all liquids have a published true density, in this case being Ethoxy Diglycol and TrichoSol.

Also because you are preparing a liquid dispersion, the concentration is usually presented as grams/100mL. So Preparing a 4% concentration means having 4 grams of CB-03-01 in 100mL preparation.

Hope that clarifies everything.