Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

pegasus2

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I have waaay better results going absolutely bonkers ogre bleed mode 1x per week compared to blindly following Follica protocol with no bleeding. It seems it won't work if I don't bleed. I am not sure why. I heal insanely fast though, like I could bleed my entire scalp to death and 48h later its white and healed again.

Maybe the needling protocols should be adapted to how fast someone heals. One of my friends also following Follica protocol is still with heavy irritation 5 days later... world of a difference between users.
How deep do you needle? What device? How many needles? How long do you needle for?
 

RagnarLothbrok

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How deep do you needle? What device? How many needles? How long do you needle for?
Dr pen M8 16 needles.

I was doing Follica style for 6 months (every 2 weeks, 0.9mm, 0 bleeding and 10min session with little erythema) without much progress. Literally felt like nothing, next day I was recovered fully.

I always healed wounds really fast, once my cat scratched my whole arm and my gf's and my wound fully healed in 4 days and hers in like 15 days (similar wound).

The only way I can bleed is >1.5MM and fairly long session with reasonable pain. I trust the science more than my broscience so thats why I was stubborn with Follica protocol but im starting to think if I dont bleed its useless for me. Literally 2 weeks after going heavier I already noticed results.
 

pegasus2

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Dr pen M8 16 needles.

I was doing Follica style for 6 months (every 2 weeks, 0.9mm, 0 bleeding and 10min session with little erythema) without much progress. Literally felt like nothing, next day I was recovered fully.

I always healed wounds really fast, once my cat scratched my whole arm and my gf's and my wound fully healed in 4 days and hers in like 15 days (similar wound).

The only way I can bleed is >1.5MM and fairly long session with reasonable pain. I trust the science more than my broscience so thats why I was stubborn with Follica protocol but im starting to think if I dont bleed its useless for me. Literally 2 weeks after going heavier I already noticed results.
That should be Follica level density if you're using the fastest setting. I use a D2 for a half hour(D2 doesn't go as fast as M8 so more time is required for the same number of needle strikes), and it leaves significant erythema and slight pinpoint bleeding. I use a depth of 1mm because I have hair in the way. After the first couple times doing this I shed like never before and soon after I had tons of regrowth. I've always suspected that the Dr Pens have trouble reaching the set depth as they have less power than the D2 yet they oscillate much faster. At those speeds I don't think it's actually penetrating to the depth that it should. At 1.5mm you might only being 1mm, so perhaps you're only now following the Follica protocol. This is why I stick with the D2 despite the relatively low speed. I know exactly how many needle strikes I'm getting and at what depth.

I don't think the time it takes to heal is a good indicator. It doesn't take long for my scalp to feel fine after these mega sessions. 24 hours or so and all the redness and pain is gone. The wound healing happens beneath the surface, week where you can't see it. Ideally you want to heal faster.
 

RagnarLothbrok

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Yeah thats a good point, I definetely think the Derminator penetrates deeper from what I seen. And Follica device quality is way higher than these sh*t consumer pens so we can assume it reaches 0.9mm with utmost accuracy.

Also I use fastest setting but im not sure if it could mean the needle staying shorter time inside skin means less trauma and might be even counterproductive past some limit.

And btw, I also experienced a shed followed by regrowth once I produced bleeding again
 

waynakyo

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1. so how come only a subset of people had really insane results while the rest got maybe 1.5x minoxidil effect

2. anyone got any hyperpigmentation from dermarolling? It seems I got some and quite worried frankly
 
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RagnarLothbrok

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1. If you check metanalysis of minoxidil studies only 40% of participants regrow hair (SULT1A main theory). If we consider microneedling a "boost" of WNT upregulation that minoxidil already does, it is to be expected some people still don't respond. Also all studies on microneedling as monotherapy have shown almost no results, so its clear minoxidil is required for the "magic". Id say it turns an hyper-responder into giga-responder. A normal responder into a great responder, and so on.

2. I haven't got hyperpigmentation despite having it in other parts of my body. Excessive scarring could cause hyperpigmentation so make sure u arent going too ham. Funnily enough microneedling is being used and studied to treat hyperpigmentation of the face skin like melasma on upper lips with great results.. lol.

And if by hyperpigmentation you mean expanding moles or dark spots you should visit your derm asap for a checkup. It could be skin melanoma (cancer) and needling over that and generating growth factors is definetely a terrible idea.
 

spring15

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I dropped topical Minoxidil for Zix , my crowns always been near perfect however over the last 4 months noticeable thinning - jumping back on minoxidil for my crown , will use Zix for my hairline still. Still microneedling once a week

I've been on 10mg oral minoxidil for 10 months - my anecdotal analysis is that topical minoxidil is required with needling - oral won't enhance needling
 

300

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1. If you check metanalysis of minoxidil studies only 40% of participants regrow hair (SULT1A main theory). If we consider microneedling a "boost" of WNT upregulation that minoxidil already does, it is to be expected some people still don't respond. Also all studies on microneedling as monotherapy have shown almost no results, so its clear minoxidil is required for the "magic". Id say it turns an hyper-responder into giga-responder. A normal responder into a great responder, and so on.

2. I haven't got hyperpigmentation despite having it in other parts of my body. Excessive scarring could cause hyperpigmentation so make sure u arent going too ham. Funnily enough microneedling is being used and studied to treat hyperpigmentation of the face skin like melasma on upper lips with great results.. lol.

And if by hyperpigmentation you mean expanding moles or dark spots you should visit your derm asap for a checkup. It could be skin melanoma (cancer) and needling over that and generating growth factors is definetely a terrible idea.
Excellent post.It irons out many arguments and speculations of the last dozens of pages of this thread.
 
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RagnarLothbrok

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36yo and thinning since 20yo, pretty sick, my daily dose of hopium for someone with similar hair loss (DUPA)

Another 1.5x Dermaroller 1x/week guy
 

mooreu

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Frankly I had better results with a regular dermaroller (1.5mm not 1 mm) than with a D2 or M8. The best protocol for me was rolling very hard every 3 weeks a la the crazy Greek guy.
 

RagnarLothbrok

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Maybe M8 top speed is too much (I think its faster than Follica device). I can imagine a needle that enters and leaves skin way too fast causes a way more different trauma that one that enters and leaves slower.
 

JWM2

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Frankly I had better results with a regular dermaroller (1.5mm not 1 mm) than with a D2 or M8. The best protocol for me was rolling very hard every 3 weeks a la the crazy Greek guy.
Same here. I had the Dermapen and felt it did more harm than good. A regular old hand-roller worked best for me, either 1 x a week, or every night, lightly, before applying minoxidil.
 

pegasus2

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Maybe M8 top speed is too much (I think its faster than Follica device). I can imagine a needle that enters and leaves skin way too fast causes a way more different trauma that one that enters and leaves slower.
I don't think the speed is the problem. Follica's device is capable of delivering 1600 needle strikes/cm² in just 5 minutes.
 

RagnarLothbrok

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One benefit of dermaroller for whole scalp regimen is that the adherence to treatment is really good, you can't really miss and its faster. I'm not always in the mood for a fuckin micropen 30-min session over whole scalp, and sometimes its easy to miss proper coverage doing it yourself.

When I tried dermarolling it healed wayy slower and was much more painful though, not for me. Its clear the angle of the wounds are not optimal but the fact that you can do good coverage with much less effort might be worth it for some people who need to do literally full head
 

RagnarLothbrok

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I don't think the speed is the problem. Follica's device is capable of delivering 1600 needle strikes/cm² in just 5 minutes.
I wonder when will some company replicate the patent or higher quality devices become consumer products. These pens are trash imo. My gf booked in-clinic needling treatment at a expensive place for face to try it out and they literally were using a f*****g Dr Pen lol
 

RagnarLothbrok

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Most people who do needling with electric pen do 5mins or 10mins max though.

The tearing of a dermaroller isn't good either, especially if you use it almost every week.
Yeah have fun trying to bleed your whole head because you have DUPA in 5mins with a lil pen :confused:
 

Derek Clapton

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I'm not too bothered about setting aside half an hour a week or whatever if it actually works. The satisfaction of foiling DHT's attempts to make me look like a twat would be immense.
 
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