Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

Francky85

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Afternoon All,

I wanted to give an update and also my personal findings so far around micro needling, after doing it for 6 months.

The main thing I have discovered for me at least, is hitting a puncture depth of 2mm is essential and I don't mean setting the pen to 2mm, but actually achieving consistent 2mm deep puncture holes across the scalp and ill go into why I think that is the case (for me at least).

I started this process back in October 2018....I bought the fairly cheap Amazon pen that numberman used got the 12pin needles..3 months worth of liquid minoxidil and began his regime of 2mm depth weekly.....I was doing this to myself with a fair amount of pain fairly successfully across the front half of my head....I would bleed a fair bit, the subsequent healing would take at least a week and by the end of the week my head would start to peel as that dead skin was removed.

Over the period I was starting to get some amazing regrowth...mainly in the areas that had thinned the most recent and I thought to myself im going to end up like number man and have some unreal pics in 6 months....but one thing I really struggled with was doing the back of my head or the crown, as the area thinned first for me and by in large feels numb.....that doesn't stop the pain, even though it hurts less....but it makes it hard to feel where you are actually needling and if you have missed any areas.

So I decided to ask my GF if she would take over and do my whole scalp for me weekly, for which she obliged and had been doing it ever since....now she has a very different technique to me in that she didn't like it when the needles would catch, so she glided the needles over my head a lot more lightly then say I would, but would make multiple passes over the scalp and it still hurt like crazy....BUT very little blood....my head would be red raw afterwards and after a day or so my scalp felt back to normal and not only that the peeling stopped. (I assumed that after doing this for a while that peeling just stopped).

Over those months of her doing my head, progress literally grinded to a halt or was very slow....I even had a shed which seemed to knock back a lot of my gains and I felt like it wasn't working anymore or I needed a new pen....the one area I had amazing regrowth though has still kept its gains without issue.

Anyway fast forward to about 3-4 weeks ago, I started looking at new pens (and I will be getting either a Dr Pen or a Derminator 2 soon) but in the meantime decided that I would start doing my scalp again and my GF can just finish it off, making sure that we are both hitting 2mm depth, by effectively dabbing the needles on my head and letting them dig down and doing that all over my head...this was by and large FAR more painful than what we were doing before and by the end of the session my head looked like a bloody mess....after a week, my head started to peel quite badly again and it even still felt a bit tender, so I moved from every 7 days to 10..but after 3-4 weeks of this Im starting to see the progress come back that I saw when I first started doing it and lots of new hairs including new black hairs coming through that I hadn't seen for a few months before.

So ill keep an eye on it and update you all....sorry for the wall of text, I just wanted to share my experience so far...I personally think hitting the 2mm depth and making the scalp peel is essential or it is at least for me as just scraping over the top of the head, even with the pen set to 2mm really halted my progression.....Erythema or not.
 

Necr0sis

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Hey guys,

I was wondering what your routine is for those who use castor oil on the scalp. I’m specifically referring to those who also use minoxidil.

Do you use minoxidil before or after the castor oil, and how long before/after? Does it effect the absorption at all?
 

ToLGuy

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Whow...truly amazing!!!!!
In my personal opinion...not so much. He is nuking his baldness with every PROVEN method there is. I am happy for him and for everyone else that is getting results with any regime, but I insist that this thread should be focused in isolating the efficiency of microneedling. Cases like this one just increases the hype but also dampens the true understanding of the magnitude of the effect of needling.

We should instead focus on cases such as the one @Longway886 provided. Although he is also using minoxidil, he used in in the past for a good amount of time and got no results, so it is most likely needling doing a decent portion of the work. I am very happy for your success man, you are slowly filling your crown. Hopefully it will keep improving.
 

tressful11

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One thing I am noticing consistently is that people who start dermarolling along with any of the big 3 see incredible results. Those who have been on big 3 for a while and then start dermarolling don't see results at the same rate.
 

tressful11

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So ill keep an eye on it and update you all....sorry for the wall of text, I just wanted to share my experience so far...I personally think hitting the 2mm depth and making the scalp peel is essential or it is at least for me as just scraping over the top of the head, even with the pen set to 2mm really halted my progression.....Erythema or not.

I am no scientist but my unscientific theory is that when you roll enough only to damage the scalp the surface skin on the scalp heals. This might help with improving scalp health, reducing sebum etc. which some people have reported.
When you go deep with needling, you are obviously breaching the deeper layers of the skin. This means that the hair roots are also nourished when the skin starts healing.

But this doesn't explain how chen got amazing results. Because only rolled 1mm daily. Mild rolling. Not even bleeding.
 

Rudi

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I am no scientist but my unscientific theory is that when you roll enough only to damage the scalp the surface skin on the scalp heals. This might help with improving scalp health, reducing sebum etc. which some people have reported.
When you go deep with needling, you are obviously breaching the deeper layers of the skin. This means that the hair roots are also nourished when the skin starts healing.

But this doesn't explain how chen got amazing results. Because only rolled 1mm daily. Mild rolling. Not even bleeding.

I feel that this is one of the problems..mild rolling means something different for every user here. I have a 0.25mm roller for topical adsorption. I have a 1mm roller for wounding. I apply significant pressure at all times.
Additionally, there is a difference how often you roll over a specific area. One person may roll 3 times...another person 12 times. Same depth but different levels of wounding but same depth (eg 1mm roller)
Its very hard to compare regimen and thus hard to arrive at meaningful conclusions..sadly!
 

ToLGuy

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One thing I am noticing consistently is that people who start dermarolling along with any of the big 3 see incredible results. Those who have been on big 3 for a while and then start dermarolling don't see results at the same rate.
This is not surprising and is easily explained by the mechanics of the traditional treatments (minoxidil & finasteride). This is especially the case for minoxidil. It is widely known that minoxidil responders get an amazing hair growth within the first 6 months. I was one of the poor souls that was temporally cured for 6-8 months. I was so excited and relieved, only to lose these gains quickly when reaching the 1 year mark. Fortunately, I have maintained barely above baseline.
But yeah, it is obvious that those who start needling at the same time as other treatments see greater results, because that's within the time frame of maximum efficacy of minoxidil and finasteride. It's not because of needling per se.
 

Francky85

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I am no scientist but my unscientific theory is that when you roll enough only to damage the scalp the surface skin on the scalp heals. This might help with improving scalp health, reducing sebum etc. which some people have reported.
When you go deep with needling, you are obviously breaching the deeper layers of the skin. This means that the hair roots are also nourished when the skin starts healing.

But this doesn't explain how chen got amazing results. Because only rolled 1mm daily. Mild rolling. Not even bleeding.

Of course...everyone is different....skin thickness etc.

For me though I have noticed a big difference in efficacy based on how deep the needles have actually been penetrating.

For me, skimming the top and not doing the full 2mm results in not much.

Others are obviously different....but I think its helpful if everyone puts there findings so people can advise others if something isn't working.
 

NilesCrane

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Of course...everyone is different....skin thickness etc.

For me though I have noticed a big difference in efficacy based on how deep the needles have actually been penetrating.

For me, skimming the top and not doing the full 2mm results in not much.

Others are obviously different....but I think its helpful if everyone puts there findings so people can advise others if something isn't working.
Hmm..I've been doing 1.5mm around 7 months to no avail. Maybe I should increase to 2mm...
 

bboy

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I said this months a go, but I still think the mindset of "the harder you roll, the better the results" is only one possible modality. I think for people not getting results, or find it too hard to butcher their scalp every week or two you should try lighter rolling, possibly twice or three times a week, depending how well your scalp heals.

I'm basing this on that rat study I posted, where light rolling induced gene expression changes (upregulating all the good stuff, and down regulating all the bad ones), and that this is achieved by the needles causing a disturbance in an electrical field below the skin, and not tissue damage per se.

People seem to be stuck in the mindset that using microneedling for Androgenetic Alopecia should use the same modality as scar reduction or skin rejuvenation. This might not be true, and not why it could be beneficial.

We should be maybe looking at it like we're trying to hack this gene expression response, and so tissue damage may be an unavoidable consequence, but should be something we're looking to minimise, as as long as your scalp is still healing, it's preventing you from getting back in and tripping the system to allow upregulation again.

Remember microneedling is based on the idea that there's two would healing responses, a chronic one in which scar tissue is formed and a second one which promotes tissue regeneration and scar reduction. Pushing ever harder and harder towards the chronic wound healing response might well be counter productive.
 
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kiwi666

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I am no scientist but my unscientific theory is that when you roll enough only to damage the scalp the surface skin on the scalp heals. This might help with improving scalp health, reducing sebum etc. which some people have reported.
When you go deep with needling, you are obviously breaching the deeper layers of the skin. This means that the hair roots are also nourished when the skin starts healing.

But this doesn't explain how chen got amazing results. Because only rolled 1mm daily. Mild rolling. Not even bleeding.
Chen is on all sorts of drugs as well
 

Longway886

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Then I made the right choice getting a stamp because cheap pens are sh*t. I've made more progress in my hairline too and I also think it's because how hard it is do it well in the back of the head.

I don't mind the pain at all. It's just discomfort for a 10-15 minutes so stamp is perfect for me. What I don't like is that feeling you get after dermarolling with a sh*t pen and knowing you didn't do it right. It feels like a waste of time.

I do not agree.. I have a ‘cheap pen’ same as number guy and I am seeing very good improvement
 

tressful11

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Sweet lord. The forum is back online. I almost got scared wondering what would happen if they suddenly shut it down permanently someday.
Maybe we can write a script to scrape all this valuable data :rolleyes:
 

Spanishboy97

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Right now I'm pretty sure some small hairs are growing thicker along my hairline, shedding remains the same. Using 2.00 mm gets me more Blood points but still not redness and my scalp feels healed within hours. Weird, that's why Im doing it every five days
 

NarWhal7

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This is not surprising and is easily explained by the mechanics of the traditional treatments (minoxidil & finasteride). This is especially the case for minoxidil. It is widely known that minoxidil responders get an amazing hair growth within the first 6 months. I was one of the poor souls that was temporally cured for 6-8 months. I was so excited and relieved, only to lose these gains quickly when reaching the 1 year mark. Fortunately, I have maintained barely above baseline.
But yeah, it is obvious that those who start needling at the same time as other treatments see greater results, because that's within the time frame of maximum efficacy of minoxidil and finasteride. It's not because of needling per se.

I don't understand the whole 6 month thing. Does a person's scalp / body get like, adjusted to the drug? I know with some other medications that people take regularly, they have to keep upping dosages to get the same effects but I guess I don't understand how Minoxidil would work that way.

Could it be that those people did not respond to the finasteride well and so the hair follicles that re-grew are now being assaulted by DHT just like their predecessors?

Additionally, if you stop minoxidil for some time, will you ever "reset" to be able to have another 6-month stint?

I am midway through month 10 and I am still gaining, but I have my fears.
 

NarWhal7

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Hmm..I've been doing 1.5mm around 7 months to no avail. Maybe I should increase to 2mm...
Do you bleed with 1.5mm?

I only saw droplets with 1.5mm, upped to 2mm and press hard to make sure I get that depth. Hurts some but I draw more blood. My results cannot be attributed solely to needling because I have been taking all kinds of stuff. I am a believer that the needling has been a large contributor to my success though, as I've sprouted hairs in places that were slick bald.
 

stonecold

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I don't understand the whole 6 month thing. Does a person's scalp / body get like, adjusted to the drug? I know with some other medications that people take regularly, they have to keep upping dosages to get the same effects but I guess I don't understand how Minoxidil would work that way.

Could it be that those people did not respond to the finasteride well and so the hair follicles that re-grew are now being assaulted by DHT just like their predecessors?

Additionally, if you stop minoxidil for some time, will you ever "reset" to be able to have another 6-month stint?

I am midway through month 10 and I am still gaining, but I have my fears.


Been on minoxidil now for a few years and gained and pretty much maintained.
 

stonecold

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you are such an idiot holy sh*t. good luck with your needling bullshit and "seti" lol. at least you didn't take the only fda approved drug that works how great of you. this si pathetic and a real joke. I have needled for 7 months and it doesn't do sh*t. it's pathetic that this is the height of research in this decade, absolutely ridiculous. the only tranny I see on this sub day in day out is you


People have used min, finasteride and nizoral for 12 months and it didn't do anything for them. Does that mean they too are rubbish?

Needling has science behind it and some are seeing good results with it. It's another treatment people can try which seems pretty genuine on all fronts. Research and feedback.
 
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