Verteporfin drug induced scarless healing with new hair follicles on mice. This new founding can be really big

[coolio]

Jesus f*****g Christ. This thread became a pissing match for no reason.

Scarless healing isn't the relevant part of the discussion here. What we care about is hair growth, and literally hundreds of compounds promote hair growth during wound healing.

This forum is called "New research, studies, and technologies." It is not called "New tech that only applies directly to hair generation and no other aspects of the hair loss/transplant experience."

The ability to re-close transplant wounds without scarring would be a VERY big deal for tens of thousands of men around the world. And if a poster brought up this topic on one of the transplant-oriented HairLossTalk.com forums, he would probably be directed to ask it on this one instead.

 

[Jakejr]

I guess some will try anything…

 

[1919]

The FT admin proposed this theory based on their interpretation of the study:
[https://www.folliclethought.com/verteporfin-could-create-scarless-hair-transplant-surgery/#comments]
"""

The Big “What if?”​

It seems as though it’s only a matter of time before a doctor, or even a hair transplant surgeon, in the US attempts to inject verteporfin into a patient’s wound. Can the drug create similar results for humans as it did in mice? This is a literal multi-million dollar question and if the answer is yes, then we could be at the brink of a new type of “organic” hair regeneration/multiplication.

If we think about the drug’s potential application in hair transplant surgeries, a patient could have hair follicles extracted from their donor area via FUE or FUT(strip) and then have verteporfin injected into the wounds of the donor area. If the mechanism of action holds up in humans, those wounds in the donor area would heal, not only without scars, but with a replenishment of hair follicles as well. Now, it’s not probable that there would be 100% regeneration of donor follicles, but even a rate of 50% would be a game changer. For fun, we can imagine a surgery of 4,000 grafts could yield back 2,000 grafts and the process could be repeated many times.

For now, this is an enticing theory, but since verteporfin is on the market it’s likely that we will not have to wait long for it to be put to the test.
"""

Can the science heads dismantle this claim/theory?
Logically, this doesnt make sense to me. Its implying that we are able to regenerate locally non-existing cell types. From my broscience, If a follicle is removed, there is nothing to signal to our body that a follicle was there. So the wound would heal based on surrounding tissue. My broscience is wonky, someone with proper brains please confirm this.

 

[Tom4362]

Can the science heads dismantle this claim/theory?
Logically, this doesnt make sense to me. Its implying that we are able to regenerate locally non-existing cell types. From my broscience, If a follicle is removed, there is nothing to signal to our body that a follicle was there. So the wound would heal based on surrounding tissue. My broscience is wonky, someone with proper brains please confirm this.

You need to watch more lectures man, your broscience is lacking. Start here:

 

[FollicleGuardian]

This could be huge!

 

[trialAcc]

Does this make as little sense to anyone else as it does to me? If you could wound and get new follicle growth with no scars, why wouldn't you just do deeper dermarolling to purposely wound the scalp then inject this into the dermarolled areas. The compound coupled with the growth factors that dermarolling produces in the skin would surely signal new hair growth just as it does with minoxidil.

No scarring and new hair growth? Why would you need a transplant? If any of these hair transplant doctors put 2 and 2 together like I just did, they won't be trying this method because it's going to open a can of worms if successful.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

Does this make as little sense to anyone else as it does to me? If you could wound and get new follicle growth with no scars, why wouldn't you just do deeper dermarolling to purposely wound the scalp then inject this into the dermarolled areas. The compound coupled with the growth factors that dermarolling produces in the skin would surely signal new hair growth just as it does with minoxidil.

No scarring and new hair growth? Why would you need a transplant? If any of these hair transplant doctors put 2 and 2 together like I just did, they won't be trying this method because it's going to open a can of worms if successful.

According to the stanford researchers, they need to remove tissue with surgery and then inject the drug. Probably with a scalpel. Dermarolling will probably not be enough. I can see it changing the landscape of hair transplants though. Because all the surgeon will have to do is remove tissue and inject the drug. Instead of actually transplanting follicles.

 

[pegasus2]

Does this make as little sense to anyone else as it does to me? If you could wound and get new follicle growth with no scars, why wouldn't you just do deeper dermarolling to purposely wound the scalp then inject this into the dermarolled areas. The compound coupled with the growth factors that dermarolling produces in the skin would surely signal new hair growth just as it does with minoxidil.

No scarring and new hair growth? Why would you need a transplant? If any of these hair transplant doctors put 2 and 2 together like I just did, they won't be trying this method because it's going to open a can of worms if successful.

Only a matter of time before someone tries it. I don't know how much the study used, but the stuff is 1700 for one dose. The study was for large wounds, but if it generates follicles in large wounds then why not small wounds? I don't think it will work better what we have for neogenesis. Other things have been shown to grow tons of new follicles in mice that don't really translate to bald humans. However, SAG worked really well at generating neogenesis, but it's not a silver bullet. Maybe this could work as well as that but without the risk. I'm skeptical, but curious. I guess we'll find out when someone tries it on a strip scar. I think it still leaves us with the same problem we have been stuck with, turning new vellus hairs into terminal hairs.

 

[pegasus2]

According to the stanford researchers, they need to remove tissue with surgery and then inject the drug. Probably with a scalpel. Dermarolling will probably not be enough. I can see it changing the landscape of hair transplants though. Because all the surgeon will have to do is remove tissue and inject the drug. Instead of actually transplanting follicles.

If the tissue has be completely removed bless the brave soul who tries it on his scalp. A strip scar is the only way we'll ever find out

 

[trialAcc]

If the tissue has be completely removed bless the brave soul who tries it on his scalp. A strip scar is the only way we'll ever find out

FUE punch?

 

[pegasus2]

FUE punch?

Doubt anybody is going to try it for that. That's a lot of injections

 

[pegasus2]

Although dubious, I am also quite intrigued. I have a scar on my head not related to a transplant where hair obviously does not grow - would this theoretically serve as a litmus test to test the efficacy of this?

You'd have to get a doctor to surgically remove the scar and then inject the drug. You can't just inject it into the scar tissue

 

[trialAcc]

Doubt anybody is going to try it for that. That's a lot of injections

They could offer it as a premium package. You'd just need to get a tech starting the injections as more extractions are made.

Scarless FUE with follicles that have a 50% chance of growing back would absolutely change the FUE industry.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

They can also have an artas type robot, it’s not a problem. They can remove the grafts, implant them. Then have the robot do the injections afterwards.

 

[pegasus2]

They could offer it as a premium package. You'd just need to get a tech starting the injections as more extractions are made.

Scarless FUE with follicles that have a 50% chance of growing back would absolutely change the FUE industry.

Sure, but they're going to have to try it on FUT first to see if it works. It doesn't make sense to go through all that for an FUE when it hasn't been tested yet.

 

[trialAcc]

Sure, but they're going to have to try it on FUT first to see if it works. It doesn't make sense to go through all that for an FUE when it hasn't been tested yet.

You make it sound like they need to do a 3000 graft trial of it. Take 50 grafts from a few sq cm, assess the scars and count the before/after follicles in the donor zone. If it works, expand it and offer it for free to a few patients on full procedures.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the product, why would this be a big deal for FUT? It's not going to replace the chunk of tissue that was pulled from your head, just make the scar be not visible and have some grafts on it, but we're talking about an area that was like an inch wide before and has now been reduced to 1-2cm? It would defiantly make FUT a more viable procedure for many, but I think FUE would stand to gain the most from this,

 

[coolio]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that 'scar-less healing' would restore damaged follicles to full size. Follicles aren't skin tissue. They are more like small organs.

If you cut an organ in half and then treat the wound with a scar-reduction substance, then you will probably end up with the half organ + a clean closed wound. I would not bet on getting a full organ out of it.


Transplant docs have experimented with splitting follicles before. IIRC they have been able to achieve two functioning follicles out of it, but each was producing a smaller hair than the original one. Even if this scar-less healing method works I would suspect that is a most likely outcome. I won't start getting excited about any further hair gains unless we get some direct evidence with human scalp follicles.

 

[Redgate]

This is what a FUT strip looks like, for anyone who wants to ponder further on whether this will work for FUT.

https://imgur.com/WhgbnNC

 

[pegasus2]

You make it sound like they need to do a 3000 graft trial of it. Take 50 grafts from a few sq cm, assess the scars and count the before/after follicles in the donor zone. If it works, expand it and offer it for free to a few patients on full procedures.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the product, why would this be a big deal for FUT? It's not going to replace the chunk of tissue that was pulled from your head, just make the scar be not visible and have some grafts on it, but we're talking about an area that was like an inch wide before and has now been reduced to 1-2cm? It would defiantly make FUT a more viable procedure for many, but I think FUE would stand to gain the most from this,

Why would they do that unless it's a surgeon that is FUE only? If you're going to trial this it makes more sense to do your first test on an FUT patient. They would both benefit equally from the lack of scarring, but fut is easier to test it on. How would you feel if you got an FUE and they only used it on a few sq. centimeters so most of your head had scarring still? I don't see that as a good patient experience whether it works or not.

 

[trialAcc]

Why would they do that unless it's a surgeon that is FUE only? If you're going to trial this it makes more sense to do your first test on an FUT patient. They would both benefit equally from the lack of scarring, but fut is easier to test it on. How would you feel if you got an FUE and they only used it on a few sq. centimeters so most of your head had scarring still? I don't see that as a good patient experience whether it works or not.

I meant you wouldn't have to test it in a full scale procedure they would purposely do a small FUE on a repair case or friend of the doctor/clinic and offer it free. Then you move onto real clients.

If I'm a paying FUT/FUE client there is no way I'm being a guinea pig for random injections.