Top 5 lies about Israel's assault on Gaza

[CCS]

I don't know for sure what to believe from the newspapers. I don't know how many deaths are civilians, how many are self defense, etc. But what seems obvious to me is that Israel has the Palistinians backed up against the sea. They have them embargoed, cramped, and forced off their land. Under those circumstances, I do not see Israel as using self defense, and I fully condone any rockets fired into the parts of Israel that should be Palistinian lands.

If the United States is funding the Israeli military, then we have every right to tell Israel how they may use that money. If they are taking someone else's land, then we have the right to cut off their funding if they don't give it back.

And I'm very angry that when the Israeli's do leave, they tear down their settlements behind them. Why? That means the Palistinians have to move into rubble instead of already built houses. That makes me much more anti-Israeli, when they do that just to hurt the Palistinians. Basically, if they can't have the land, then they don't want the Palistinians benefiting any more from it than the UN requires.

If I were president, I'd threaten to cut off all aid to Israel and all bribes to Egypt if the Israelis did not give back a lot of land and leave the infrustructure and houses standing. We do need to re-draw the lines though so each country is as connected and self contained as possible, and borders are minimized. We need a dead zone, baracades, a big wall, and miles of crop land on either side of the border.

 

[optimus prime]

It's Germany that should have ceded a fair chunk of it's land for a Jewish state IMO.

I agree. I think they should have also. I think it is highly unfair the Palestinians lost their land.

Oi, I never said that :nono: .... You must have misquoted me :whistle:

Ha! Sorry, I was quoting the Australia guy.

I don't mean much by the nice comment other than I don't think the British have a particularly nice history and that the whole situation is rather horrible.

 

[optimus prime]

I don't know for sure what to believe from the newspapers. I don't know how many deaths are civilians, how many are self defense, etc. But what seems obvious to me is that Israel has the Palistinians backed up against the sea. They have them embargoed, cramped, and forced off their land. Under those circumstances, I do not see Israel as using self defense, and I fully condone any rockets fired into the parts of Israel that should be Palistinian lands.

If the United States is funding the Israeli military, then we have every right to tell Israel how they may use that money. If they are taking someone else's land, then we have the right to cut off their funding if they don't give it back.

And I'm very angry that when the Israeli's do leave, they tear down their settlements behind them. Why? That means the Palistinians have to move into rubble instead of already built houses. That makes me much more anti-Israeli, when they do that just to hurt the Palistinians. Basically, if they can't have the land, then they don't want the Palistinians benefiting any more from it than the UN requires.

If I were president, I'd threaten to cut off all aid to Israel and all bribes to Egypt if the Israelis did not give back a lot of land and leave the infrustructure and houses standing. We do need to re-draw the lines though so each country is as connected and self contained as possible, and borders are minimized. We need a dead zone, baracades, a big wall, and miles of crop land on either side of the border.

I agree, but why don't the Americans us the money to help the Palestinians build infrastructure and houses and build an economy. They like to do that in the middle East right?

If they believe Hamas is a terrorist group why don't they establish a pro Western Democracy like they are trying to in Iraq. Or maybe they are via Israel.

 

[CCS]

I agree the Germans should have given some of their land after WWII. But it is too late for that now.

 

[Smooth]

( :woot: Aljazira.com im going to send this gem to all my friends! ^^ i find it hard to belive that someone will take what they post as granted )
Who belives the inital post "5 lies" (^_^) is either severly brain damaged, terrorist or just uneducated . for evidence US government soppuring Israel, nuff said.

 

[Hammy070]

wow .two newbies and your first posts is about Gaza . Admins ?

I cant comment about everything that was written here right now but i'll say this :
non of you have the right to judge or lecture israel . if civilians homes from a part of your country were bombed by rockets by an organization that demands independnce your goverment would have WIPED OUT the area they were firing from no matter how many women or children would die in the process .
we put up with this for 8 years .

Your using a relatavist empathy technique in an attempt to make people understand. All you need to do is use them same technique for Palestinians from 1900-2008.

A possible way this can be done:

1) You don't have the right to criticize Palestinians, if foreigners came over against the natives will and seized the majority of land, any government would wipe them out no matter how many civilians are killed. They've put up with it for nearly a century.

You shouldn't go to great lengths with empathy about YOUR situation but then utterly ignore the very valid case with Palestinians. Ask yourself WOULD any people give up a single inch of their territory to a hostile, radical political movement (Zionism), let alone the majority of their land?

 

[Hammy070]

I didnt mean were beyond criticism i meant we are over criticised . if you compare our conflict to other conflicts in the world you will see that there is no proportion between the amount of coverage that this conflict recieve compared to the others even though the other conflicts aspects like the number of people involved ,the size of the territories involved etc are much more substantial than this conflict.

The USA isn't going out of their way to arm them. The Presidential candidates don't bow like dogs to their lobby groups pre-elections. If that was corrected, then coverage will be normalized, as Israel wouldn't be able to implement Zionist colonialism any longer, levelling the playing field, and by default solving the conflict in the best way.

no country in europe have colonies in afghanistan . but their armies are there fighting the Taliban and this is a just fight i know but the Taliban never fired rockets at cities in europe or declared he wants to extrminate all europians . Hamas do .

I'm sorry but Hamas is but 20 years old, Israel was building settlements, expelling Palestinians, preventing a right of return for many decades before the word Hamas was even coined up. And remember, Israel WANTED Hamas to gain power, so it could destabalize Palestine and create civil dispute with Fatah. This is a well known fact. And you can extend this even further back, all the Israeli actions listed above, precede any militant movement in Palestine, in fact the first organized terrorist groups were Jewish.

while europe fights thousands of miles from their land we fight a couple of miles from our major cities . thousands of afghans citizens are killed in this war but europe citizens have zero casualties while here people are being killed by rockets and suicide bombers.

Key word: Countries. The major problem is you don't even recognize the country you seized.

britain used to colonized the majority of the globe . in the Falklands war the sent their entire navy half way across the world there and the killed every single one of them . and for what ? were the citizens of britain in a life threatening situation ?

The Falklands were unhabited. The Empire has ended. We have moved on after WW2, you havn't.

and were suppose to listen to their criticism ? take their advice about morality and human rights ? give me a break .

If it wasn't for Britain Israel wouldn't exist. Pure and simple. The least you could do is take some advice.

 

[Hammy070]

The real people to blame are the countries that forced the Jewish people out of their land, including the UK and most of Europe, and then placed them in Israel.

Nobody was forced to go to Palestine. Zionism specifically wanted a state in Palestine, no where else, seeking refuge in safe countries wasn't the priority, colonialism against unarmed Arabs was.

[quote:f0j9qekd]Mind you, If I was Israel don't know how much I would put up with if my innocent civilians were being cowardly rocketed.

[/quote:f0j9qekd]

What would you do if you were a Palestinian in a refugee camp, prevented the right to go home? Would you recognize Israelis right to exist? That is, would you recognize Israels right to kick you along with millions of others of your people out of their own homes?

As someone said, even monks would become terrorists in response. Considering Europes history, any nation in Europe would at LEAST attempt to wipe out the Zionists, at the very least if they're country was Zionisms' target.

 

[Hammy070]

Basically, what you are saying is that the Westerners are the real culprit? The West is trying to wash their hands off the Jews and make them someone else's problem?

That doesn't sound very nice.

If you believe what you are saying, then you would also agree that the likes of Hamas have the right to defend their land?

ummm...hello? Nice? Are you serious?

During World War I, the British sought Jewish support in the fight against Germany. This and support for Zionism from Prime-Minister Lloyd-George[10] led to foreign minister, Lord Balfour making the Balfour Declaration of 1917, stating that the British Government "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people"...

[quote:2tw34shj]After the end of World War II, The British Labour Party won the elections in Britain. Labour party conferences had for years called for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

The Jews would not have been able to do this alone. Russia was pro Israel. So was the UK. You think the Jews wanted to stay in Europe after what happened to them? You think that was nice?

I am neither a Jew or Arab, however, I think they have both been screwed Yes Hamas has the right to defend their land, but firing rockets into civilian territory is not the answer.

It's Germany that should have ceded a fair chunk of it's land for a Jewish state IMO.

I agree. I think they should have also. I think it is highly unfair the Palestinians lost their land.[/quote:2tw34shj]

The question is then, what SHOULD the Palestinians do? In my opinion they are by far less violent than every European country, who simply wouldn't settle for even 1% of what Zionism did. Palestinians USED to mean Muslims, Christians AND Jews, for centuries. Not once were they kicked out from Jerusalem or anywhere else. The first Jews who came over in the late 1800s didn't face any local hostility, it was when the locals learned of ZIONISM and the plan to create a specifically Jewish nation where it was PUBLICALLY known that Arabs would have no political rights (I have many sources to prove this) it was then in the 1910s and beyond when the conflict today started. After this threat was known, then an increased amount of Jews illegally arriving every year, by the tens of thousands, it was only after decades of this when violence started, which is more patient than any Western nation could ever be.

"We have noticed yesterday a large crowd of Jews carrying banners and over-running the streets shouting words which hurt the feeling and wound the soul. They pretend with open voice that Palestine, which is the Land of our fathers and the graveyard of our ancestors, which has been inhabited by the Arabs for long ages, who loved it and died in defending it, is now a national home for them." -

The Mayor of Jerusalem Musa Kathim al-Husseini on November 2nd 1918, in a letter to the British Governor

Lord Sydenham of the British House of Deputies replied prophetically to Balfour:

"... the harm done by dumping down an alien population upon an Arab country - Arab all around in the hinterland - may never be remedied ... what we have done is, by concessions, not to the Jewish people but to a Zionist extreme section, to start a running sore in the East, and no one can tell how far that sore will extend."

(UN: The Origins And Evolution Of Palestine Problem, section IV)

Quite an accurate prediction by Lord Sydenham, even in the 1910s the future result of Zionism was apparent.

 

[Hammy070]

I said earlier:

If that was corrected (US military support, political backing), then coverage will be normalized, as Israel wouldn't be able to implement Zionist colonialism any longer, levelling the playing field, and by default solving the conflict in the best way.

Likely at first war, both sides losing people. Then realising the pointlessness of it all. Then establishing a single state, not a Muslim, Christian or Jewish, or Zionist one. Just a normal, everyday country...I know that's VERY controversial, the state not being priority for a single race, but I think it's the best way.

 

[Smooth]

Likely at first war, both sides losing people. Then realising the pointlessness of it all. Then establishing a single state, not a Muslim, Christian or Jewish, or Zionist one. Just a normal, everyday country...I know that's VERY controversial, the state not being priority for a single race, but I think it's the best way.

I tottaly agree with you on this, sadly the majority of the palastienas dont, otherwise they wouldnt ellected the Hamas {which well known to cope and supported by extreme organizations like the "Muslims brotherhood of Egypt", "Hizbella" and Iran itself} in democratic ellactions.