The worst part about hairloss is the HELPLESSNESS

[vipergts]

The other day it occurred to me that for me the worst aspect of hairloss is not seeing my bald spots grow or finding hundreds of hairs all over the place but the fact that I am just so damn helpless. I feel so horrrible that I am simply seing my hair deteriote every week and month and can do nothing in my power to stop it. The treatments are a joke! Propecia screwed my hair up even more and minoxidil is doing virtually nothing. I remember getting so excited when I tried the alternatives (spironolactone, dutasteride, CPs, nizoral 2 percent, all sorts of filthy and greasy oils, Prox-n, Retin-A, Saw P, Biotin, Vitamin D (suspecting Thyroid), water purification filters and dozens of shampoo) but I got nothing but disappointement. What's even worse is reading success stories of guys who simply took finasteride and stopped their excessive shedding/hairloss dead in it's tracks....to me that's not inspiring but disheartening. I feel so f'in defeated......I have tried everything in my power, what more can I do? I simply can't tell myself to accept defeat and forget about it all....my heart tells me to keep fighting, but my brain tells me that it's all over. Do you guys ever feel this way? If everything is failing then how do you give yourself hope and confidence?

Viper

 

[DoctorHouse]

The other day it occurred to me that for me the worst aspect of hairloss is not seeing my bald spots grow or finding hundreds of hairs all over the place but the fact that I am just so damn helpless. I feel so horrrible that I am simply seing my hair deteriote every week and month and can do nothing in my power to stop it. The treatments are a joke! Propecia screwed my hair up even more and minoxidil is doing virtually nothing. I remember getting so excited when I tried the alternatives (spironolactone, dutasteride, CPs, nizoral 2 percent, all sorts of filthy and greasy oils, Prox-n, Retin-A, Saw P, Biotin, Vitamin D (suspecting Thyroid), water purification filters and dozens of shampoo) but I got nothing but disappointement. What's even worse is reading success stories of guys who simply took finasteride and stopped their excessive shedding/hairloss dead in it's tracks....to me that's not inspiring but disheartening. I feel so f'in defeated......I have tried everything in my power, what more can I do? I simply can't tell myself to accept defeat and forget about it all....my heart tells me to keep fighting, but my brain tells me that it's all over. Do you guys ever feel this way? If everything is failing then how do you give yourself hope and confidence?

Viper

Hello my good friend, Viper!!!!!! :jump: You have to realize there is no cure for baldness. According to Rassman, on his blog, he mentioned he feels there will someday be a cure. Dr Lee says, you can only expect hairloss treatments to do most of their "magic" between 1 to 3 years max. So after 3 years, the "magic' will wear off hopefully very slowly for some and for some it will wear off very quickly. Your age and genetics will dictate just have long the "magic" will last. Your only resort left is positive thinking and if you are religious, then prayer. Thats about all you can do. For me, I know the "magic" is slowing disappearing. I went to a hair transplant Doctor to see if he can do some "magic" for me and he said he could but it may result in more hairloss. No thanks. I decided its time to give myself a new look. I cut my hair shorter, added some toppik, restyled it and gave me a new look for 2009. That is all the "magic" I have left to salvage my problem I have become embarrassing over-obsessed with in the past 3 years. I do tell myself every day, it could be worse. After, seeing what I have seen on this forum, I really feel sorry for most of the people on here and admire those who can hold there head up high and deal with this loss better than I ever have. I unfortunately have let myself become a victim of the media and hollywood society into believing you can get anything you want as long as you look like a perfect male fitness model. CCS knows what I mean. If you are a 10, the world is your oyster. How ashamed I feel for letting myself get to that point. However, I am getting much better at snapping myself out of that ridiculous thinking and I am learning to live a more positive life. I guess you need to do the same. Hair loss is not a fatal disease. I think we all have let ourselves believes it is. We have to think outside the box now and realize, if there is meant to be a cure, there will be one. Otherwise, if Propecia, Avodart, or Rogaine, don't create any "magic" for you, then learn to create your own "magic" that will help you live a positive life.

 

[vipergts]

Hey Doctor, old pal....hope you are doing well! I appreciate you advice. That's what I am trying to do: tell myself that I have done all I could and then focus on all the positive aspects of my life. I am suprised Lee told you (or someone) that minoxidil works only for 2-3 years. The last I spoke to him he was trying to sell me Xandrox 15 percent claiming that it blows regular minoxidil out of the water... Take it easy now...

Viper

 

[SE-freak]

I really feel sorry for most of the people on here

People here are looking for solutions and information. I never feel sorry for someone that has not given up. Feeling sorry for most of the people here is not the right approach to contribute.

I totally agree with viper, the worst part and major trap of male pattern baldness is being caught in a helpnessness loop, accept it and then find comfort in accepting things in general. male pattern baldness in a way teaches you fate. That is why I value hair loss treatments, for giving a shot at an active stance towards things and because it is a way to teach yourself not to give up without a fight.

The whole trip of loss, besides the pain, can lead you to a more positive and essential approach to life. It might sound hilarious but I believe that people that manage to get out of depression due to male pattern baldness and still stand, are enriched, more sensitive to other's feelings and highly emotionally intelligent compared to their prior blissful ignorance. Scars make one's character, and it is the character that eventually shines, not your baldspot.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Hey Doctor, old pal....hope you are doing well! I appreciate you advice. That's what I am trying to do: tell myself that I have done all I could and then focus on all the positive aspects of my life. I am suprised Lee told you (or someone) that minoxidil works only for 2-3 years. The last I spoke to him he was trying to sell me Xandrox 15 percent claiming that it blows regular minoxidil out of the water... Take it easy now...

Viper

Viper
I was reading on his website and I guess I interpreted him meaning minoxidil 5% and Propecia will give maximum results at 1 to 3 years. He does mention your results later than that can result in thinning more but I guess with Xandrox15, that may not hold true. Yet Xandrox15 has been out for so long now and yet no one raves about how it moved them from a Norwood 2 to NW1 except maybe Kiel. I think if Xandrox15 has been shown to improve everyone's hair who was on 5 % minoxidil for over 3 years, I think everyone would be using it. I read some post on the other forums and some claim they did not get any significant results with Xandrox15 vs Xandrox(5%). I also had to re-edit my post above because I misread Rassman's post. He says there WILL BE a cure eventually. I guess that gives us some hope, but when that will be who knows. I remember seeing that segment with Matt Lauer that said these doctors may have found a cure but that segment has never been followed up since then.

SE Freak, I guess using the word "feel sorry" was a poor choice. Maybe as Viper put it, I feel frustrated for the people who come on here and are so young with hair loss. I would only wish they would experience it alot later in life or not at all if possible. Of course I admire everyone who comes on here willing to try to help themselves but if you read some of the posts, that is not always the case. And besides, if anyone needs good advice, I am sure CCS or his sister's fiance can give advice that would impress Dear Abby or Ann Landers......... :innocent: :whistle:


SE Freak

 

[Petchsky]

"it is the character that eventually shines, not your baldspot"

Poetically put SE, and very true.

Doctor House - Who did you see about a transplant? They sound ethical whoever it was by telling you the truth, as you're a diffuse thinner.

If i was you, and i plan to do this soon, buy the toppik applicator that sprays it on to your hairline, it's meant to be very realistic. Personally i use nanogen, but it's very similar and can used in the toppik spray applicator....unless you use dermatch and then disregard this comment.

 

[DoctorHouse]

"it is the character that eventually shines, not your baldspot"

Poetically put SE, and very true.

Doctor House - Who did you see about a transplant? They sound ethical whoever it was by telling you the truth, as you're a diffuse thinner.

If i was you, and i plan to do this soon, buy the toppik applicator that sprays it on to your hairline, it's meant to be very realistic. Personally i use nanogen, but it's very similar and can used in the toppik spray applicator....unless you use dermatch and then disregard this comment.

I saw Dr Epstein. He is very down to earth and to the point and very honest. Funny, you should mention about toppik and the applicator spray. I have both of them and never used them much until recently. Since I was running out of toppik, I just received nanogen today and I will give it a try since I have read people tend to like it better than toppik. I have the old spray applicator and its a bit difficult to use. I wonder if the new improved applicator spray is better. I also got some dermmatch to try again for the hairline. The last color of dermmatch I got was too light. I got the right color now. However, I think it is going to more of a challange to use. I just have to apply it to my window's peak( I have a true one in the middle of my hairline mixed in with a cowlick).

 

[Flavio]

[...] What's even worse is reading success stories of guys who simply took finasteride and stopped their excessive shedding/hairloss dead in it's tracks....to me that's not inspiring but disheartening. I feel so f'in defeated......I have tried everything in my power, what more can I do? [...]

You said finasteride didn't work. Are you sure you used it correctly? Did you buy a legitimate product or did you order some generic crap on the Internet? Did you give it enough time to work (results are only visible after 1-2 years)? I consider myself to be a success case, but results were far from spectacular: Proscar simply stopped my hair loss, there was no regrowth.

 

[vipergts]

Flavio,

I used real brand Propecia purchased from legit pharmcies (CVS, Walmart, etc) for about 1.5 years. During the whole time my shedding was about double, scalp was more unhealthier than ever and I lost about 40 percent of corwn density. I know my hairloss really well and have no dount that propecia speeded things up. As soon as I quit Propecia my rate of loss became much slower and scalp much healthier. I feel during the time I was on Propecia I lost the same amount of hair that I would have lost normally in 3-4 years at the rate I was balding. My mistake was that I listened to morons who kept on telling me that excessive shedding was normal and to stick to it - what a HUGE mistake. I should have quit finasteride after 3 months just based on common sense. I think that DHT is not the only factor responsible for hair loss, otherwise finasteride would works for everyone. I think Testosterone plays an equally important role for some people. I think the T-level surge from finasteride is what increased my loss while I was on finasteride....my hair seems to be too sensive to T-level surges. Case in point, I lose more hair when I work out intensely with weights.

Viper

 

[Thickandthin]

Flavio,

I used real brand Propecia purchased from legit pharmcies (CVS, Walmart, etc) for about 1.5 years. During the whole time my shedding was about double, scalp was more unhealthier than ever and I lost about 40 percent of corwn density. I know my hairloss really well and have no dount that propecia speeded things up. As soon as I quit Propecia my rate of loss became much slower and scalp much healthier. I feel during the time I was on Propecia I lost the same amount of hair that I would have lost normally in 3-4 years at the rate I was balding. My mistake was that I listened to morons who kept on telling me that excessive shedding was normal and to stick to it - what a HUGE mistake. I should have quit finasteride after 3 months just based on common sense. I think that DHT is not the only factor responsible for hair loss, otherwise finasteride would works for everyone. I think Testosterone plays an equally important role for some people. I think the T-level surge from finasteride is what increased my loss while I was on finasteride....my hair seems to be too sensive to T-level surges. Case in point, I lose more hair when I work out intensely with weights.

Viper

Bah.....I find this hard to believe, atleast on a scientific level.

People don't claim cancer drugs "worsened" their cancer if they get worse/die while taking them. They just know they simply didn't work. Same thing with finasteride. Everyone is different. Some people respond to cancer drugs, some don't. Some respond to finasteride, some don't. Obviously there is more to hair loss than just androgens, but androgens are the primary culprit. The studies back this up.

Honestly, I don't think finasteride made your hair loss worse. I think you are just unlucky and suffered from a bad coincidence. Think about all of the people who have taken finasteride on this message board. You and maybe a handful of others are the only ones to ever claim that finasteride made their hair loss worse. A lot of people say it did nothing for them, but not many say it made it *worse*. Maybe the actual case is just that it didn't work for you and you just so happened to enter an accelerated balding phase while you were taking it? Almost everyone has those. Correlation doesn't imply causation, especially in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And due to the fact that 17% of men don't respond to finasteride, a few of those taking it are assuredly going to continue noticeably balding, perhaps at an advanced rate (as tends to happen).

You gotta look at this stuff logically man. I know it's hard because we're talking about you and not some study, but that's just how it works. Bad luck and a lame coincidence - that's all.

 

[BDSander]

I'm with viper on this one. I have been on propecia for almost 2 years and it has ruined my hairline. I recently went to a dermatologist to get his advice on whether to continue taking it and he told me there is no way that propecia would have a negative result on my hair. Meanwhile this guy is almost completely bald. He told me if I get off of it I will lose everything that I have maintained with propecia, but I told him since I have not maintained anything while on the drug what would I be losing. He really had no response for this and he told me to stick with it. The fact of the matter is that not all of these treatments work for everyone. I am currently on the big 3 and my hair is in horrible shape. I get annoyed looking through the posts on this board, because most of the people on here have no business discussing hairloss since they have great hair.

 

[SE-freak]

but I told him since I have not maintained anything while on the drug what would I be losing.

You cannot possibly know if you maintained or not, since you cannot know what your baseline would be in the parallel universe where you never started the drug.

I get annoyed looking through the posts on this board, because most of the people on here have no business discussing hairloss since they have great hair.

Discussing and researching hairloss is not the priviledge of the bald. I am sick of this argument, people have the right to be on top of the Norwood scale, or have great results AND contribute to the forum. If that wasn't the case, then the only voices heard would be of despair and vent.

Note that I do not take for granted that finasteride will work for everyone, or that there is no way that it could have an adverse effect on your hair, just pointing out a logical false step.

 

[zb00st]

I am on finasteride 6 months. And things are much much worse than baseline. I can't beleive it. When I started, I thought at least I won't get any worse - thats why I took the pill. Now I only think how to hide that mess over my scalp in the front...
I'm fed up of thinking what or why is not working. How is that happening ? Is it because of increased Free testosterone ? Is finasteride not working for me ? Do I got hyperandrogenecity or whatever ? Why hair at the front is harder to get back ? What would happen if I didn't took the pill ? Would it go this way, better or worse ?
The more I think - the more questions I have and the real thing with male pattern baldness is that you may never know the answers. No one knows them and they are different for everyone. That is what drives me mad and angry. Then it is the feeling you are helpless and thats it.

 

[s.a.f]

No meds will work 100% on everybody. I've seen some people get good regrowth on finasteride and also plenty who continued to lose hair on it but one things for sure it may not work for you as you'd hoped but it will definatley not be responsible for making your hair worse or increase your hairloss.

 

[zb00st]

But I think it can speed up hairloss if you don't respond good to it.

 

[s.a.f]

No, give me 1 possible scientific reason how it could?
Like someone posted earlier if you have cancer and the treatment does'nt work (cure you) it does'nt mean that its made it worse. :roll:

 

[zb00st]

Maybe if you start taking meds and get the initial shedding but meds turn not to be effective for you, because of different reasons. Then you have speeded up hair cycles and didn't regrew thick hair, instead got more thining hair. I don't know this is just my theory because I kind of experienced this. From the other side I don't know what it could be if I didn't take meds, it could be worse. Coincidence - don't think so.

 

[SE-freak]

Maybe if you start taking meds and get the initial shedding but meds turn not to be effective for you, because of different reasons. Then you have speeded up hair cycles and didn't regrew thick hair, instead got more thining hair. I don't know this is just my theory because I kind of experienced this. From the other side I don't know what it could be if I didn't take meds, it could be worse. Coincidence - don't think so.

The initial shed takes place, in case you respond. You cannot be a responder while meds are not effective for you. It's your own male pattern baldness progressing imo.

 

[vipergts]

ZB,

I agree 100 percent. We are the unfortunate few for whom finasteride does not work at all. The way I see it, finasteride is the most proven treatment out there and if that doesn't do it for you nothing else will. The biggest frustration for me is exactly this. I have now tried finasteride twice (for 1 year each) and had to stop because I was 100 percent certain that it was accelerating my hair loss. I WISH more than anything else that it worked for me to at least stop excessive shedding. While on finasteride I also noticed some minor sexual sides and a bit of gyno - but I personally would have lived with these sides had the shedding slowed down. Anyways, I am one of the few here who understand where you are coming from. I have tried everything else out there with the exception of Revivogen and Fluridil - nothing has worked. Hairloss continues, shedding 200-300 hairs a day, bald spots widening slowly, major depession and low confidence each and every day. Hair is such an important part of one's image; without it you're just another bald guy. As much as I want to accept it and move on, my stubborness wouldn't let me...

Viper

I am on finasteride 6 months. And things are much much worse than baseline. I can't beleive it. When I started, I thought at least I won't get any worse - thats why I took the pill. Now I only think how to hide that mess over my scalp in the front...
I'm fed up of thinking what or why is not working. How is that happening ? Is it because of increased Free testosterone ? Is finasteride not working for me ? Do I got hyperandrogenecity or whatever ? Why hair at the front is harder to get back ? What would happen if I didn't took the pill ? Would it go this way, better or worse ?
The more I think - the more questions I have and the real thing with male pattern baldness is that you may never know the answers. No one knows them and they are different for everyone. That is what drives me mad and angry. Then it is the feeling you are helpless and thats it.

 

[vipergts]

SAF old pal - I would beg to differ on this one based on my personal experience. My scalp felt aweful on finasteride and shedding was on an all time high the 12-14 months I was on finasteride. My visible density also decreased greatly. When I stopped finasteride my scalp felt relieved and shedding went down, albeit only about 20 percent or so. Loss continues but at a slower rate. My only scientific guess would be that DHT is not the sole culprit as most medical sources claim. If it were then with finasteride or dutasteride would work for all, but the fact remains that they don't. I think T-Levels could have a major role to play in some cases. I think my hairloss may be due to T more so than DHT, and when finasteride increased my T-levels my hair loss increased. Who knows, what's right and what's wrong in hairloss, I just decided to use my common sense and stopped taking finasteride. I now resort to using dozens of topicals every day/week but am getting no results ( ie loss continues). Oh well, after this is all over I won't have any guilt...I gave it everything.

No, give me 1 possible scientific reason how it could?
Like someone posted earlier if you have cancer and the treatment does'nt work (cure you) it does'nt mean that its made it worse. :roll: