The sad fact is only 1% of a topical gets absorbed
- Thread starter blaze
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It actually varies from 0.5 to at most 4% with minoxidil in PG/ethanol/water. UpJohn says so. I've seen other studies with other topicals, and 1% is typical. So if 5% is applied, you get 0.01x5% = 0.05% of the total goes in. There are ways to increase absorption though. Just think how small a pore is compared to the skin around it, and that should make it easier for you to understand the 1%. 7.5% is the best I've heard of a topical getting absorbed.
ShedMaster
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collegechemistrystudent said:
What is the best way to increase absorbtion in your opinion?
DoctorHouse
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A damp scalp after a hot shower increases the absorption.
ShedMaster
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blaze said:
Its funny because the gardener keeps ranting and raving about his a*** minoxidil. I'm not quite sure what this consists of so I'll have to ask him for his contribution for this theory.
ShedMaster said:
I know of a way to increase it 10x, at least for finasteride. It should have the same effect on spironolactone since the molecules are very similar looking. I'm sure Bryan remembers the study. I'll post it in a week. Some guy said he'd give me 50 grams of spironolactone for free if I told him how to make the high penetration vehicle. I'd like to tell him how to make it now, but for 50g, I think I'll wait till he sends it to me.
ShedMaster
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collegechemistrystudent said:
Do tell CCS, do tell. We need your insight on this forum, and I enjoy your contributions.
blaze said:
Suppose 100% of oral minoxidil enters the gut and makes it past the liver, and then spreads evenly through the body, binding to blood vessels. The scalp is only 1/400th the mass of you body, and only a fraction of it is hair follicles.
Put the same dose on your head (50mg in 1mL of 5%). Compare the area of the pore to the area of the skin around it. 1% is a likely figure for what actually gets in, and it is down the pore, where it is needed. The follicle is at the end of the pore.
So the topical gives you more.
flimflam
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re: the topic;
Umm, so what if a small percentage is absorbed? Don't you think that's, you know, taken into account when they manufacture the stuff? Maybe that's why Rogaine is 5% minoxidil and not .05% ?
why is this a "sad fact" ?
Honestly. When some people aren't worrying, they're thinking up new things to worry about
.
Umm, so what if a small percentage is absorbed? Don't you think that's, you know, taken into account when they manufacture the stuff? Maybe that's why Rogaine is 5% minoxidil and not .05% ?
why is this a "sad fact" ?
Honestly. When some people aren't worrying, they're thinking up new things to worry about
.
the penetration enhancer is octyl salicylate. The liquid is fully oil mixable. In a study of topical finasteride, they used 0.025% finasteride, 25% propylene glycol, 50% ethanol, and 25% water. 0.75% of the finasteride was absorbed. When they added I think 10% octyl salicylate to the mix, finasteride absorption increased to 7.5% of the applied amount. Finasteride and spironolactone are both steroids, and look similar. They both have similar solubilities too. So I think the octyl salicylate should have the same absorption effects as the finasteride. You could just add some octyle salicylate to lipoxidil's spironolactone for better results. 3mL should do. Too much and it won't dissolve.
If you put spironolactone in a liquid by itself, it will probably be stable a month or maybe more. You could make smaller batches and refridgerate them, but I think a cold topical might close your pores and reduce absorption. spironolactone is most stable at pH 4.3. At that pH, it should last longer even at room temperature. I don't know how long, but just that it lasts longer. spironolactone reacts with minoxidil. Caffine also reacts with minoxidil. Keto and pirotone olamine both are most stable around pH 6. So if you mix spironolactone with them, it is hard to make both last long. Copper peptides are also most stable at pH 6. Most shampoos are pH 5.5 or 6, but you can't mix spironolactone with the peptides and expect both to last long.
I don't know how to make shampoos penetrate better, though I guess nizoral penetrates very well. I add a little propylene glycol to my babyshampo.
The common sense preservation methods I'm sure you could think of are to make less at time and store it in the fridge. The way to adjust the pH is to add something acidic to the shampoo in the right amount. I don't recommend adding it to nizoral, since lower pH could damage the keto. But I can take some babyshampoo to the lab and see how much synthetic lemon juice is required to lower 8oz to pH 4.3, then tell you. Vitamin C actually buffers right there, and would be therapudic. The problem is even with BHT added, a solution of Vitamin C is very unstable, and actually breaks down to for free radicals in 1 week tops. Sounds far fetched since I've seen sun blocks that have vitamin C, but Old Baldy has read this many places. So I'm just playing it safe and not using it.
I still want to maybe grind some vitamin C up every few days, mix it in water, drink most of it, and put 1mL on my head. I'd be careful to make it dilute though.
If you put spironolactone in a liquid by itself, it will probably be stable a month or maybe more. You could make smaller batches and refridgerate them, but I think a cold topical might close your pores and reduce absorption. spironolactone is most stable at pH 4.3. At that pH, it should last longer even at room temperature. I don't know how long, but just that it lasts longer. spironolactone reacts with minoxidil. Caffine also reacts with minoxidil. Keto and pirotone olamine both are most stable around pH 6. So if you mix spironolactone with them, it is hard to make both last long. Copper peptides are also most stable at pH 6. Most shampoos are pH 5.5 or 6, but you can't mix spironolactone with the peptides and expect both to last long.
I don't know how to make shampoos penetrate better, though I guess nizoral penetrates very well. I add a little propylene glycol to my babyshampo.
The common sense preservation methods I'm sure you could think of are to make less at time and store it in the fridge. The way to adjust the pH is to add something acidic to the shampoo in the right amount. I don't recommend adding it to nizoral, since lower pH could damage the keto. But I can take some babyshampoo to the lab and see how much synthetic lemon juice is required to lower 8oz to pH 4.3, then tell you. Vitamin C actually buffers right there, and would be therapudic. The problem is even with BHT added, a solution of Vitamin C is very unstable, and actually breaks down to for free radicals in 1 week tops. Sounds far fetched since I've seen sun blocks that have vitamin C, but Old Baldy has read this many places. So I'm just playing it safe and not using it.
I still want to maybe grind some vitamin C up every few days, mix it in water, drink most of it, and put 1mL on my head. I'd be careful to make it dilute though.
ShedMaster
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CCS, please explain in laymen's terms how and what can a mere mortal like myself do to increase the absorbtion of minoxidil foam without a chemistry lab at hand. Other then wetting your scalp, etc...
ShedMaster
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Nathaniel said:
I've heard mixed results for retin A... what does everyone else think?
ShedMaster
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ShedMaster said: