The Ordinary Multi-peptide Serum For Hair Density

[JaneyElizabeth]

TL;DR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST- PRODUCT "REVIEW"/WARNING

I was very happy to find this product. I'm from a country with limited options and import charges are high. This was the most well-rounded formula I could find, with multiple criteria in mind.

On paper, it does look really well and at an affordable price. Each active ingredient has some form of studies on it (mostly in vitro cell cultures) but the ingredients have also been used in some human trials.

The Ordinary also doesn't hesitate to mention that their total concentration of active ingredients is 21,15%.
In studies for the different patents: REDENSYL™, Procapil™, CAPIXYL™ and BAICAPIL™ that are in the product, they have used a concentration between 1-5%. 1% of that is Caffeine, so we know it contains close to the concentration we need in order for these natural substances to attempt to replicate that of which was done in studies.

It absorbs the scalp really well, though that in itself has its trade-off. Scalp penetration/permeability = higher systemic retention. So it's clear it's getting "in there" and doing its job. Even though it absorbs well, the scalp does not become dry and it stays relatively humid.

I thought this could be my long-term option as a substitute for Finasteride and Minoxidil because it covers both the DHT and blood-flow aspect (and does even more than that, for instance, increasing collagen & elastin synthesis + targets many other pathways wanted for hair growth).

That being said, the reason I'm making this post- I saw another guy talking about how this product has raised his prolactin significantly too. This had me worried, but I wanted to try the product for myself.

Important to note: I've always been very sensitive and notice the smallest changes in my physiology. Especially hormonal changes. I'm on the autism spectrum disorder if that 'helps'.

Short about my experience;

I developed sexual dysfunction and gynecomastia even just from a few weeks on microdose topical Finasteride (0.025% concentration). For Minoxidil, it induced heart palpitations, increased heart-rate, dark circles under eyes, headaches and overall puffy look in my face. It would make it harder to catch my breath and get a satisfying yawn. I was only on it for a short time, but I was not gonna let my gynecomastia worsen and develop.

About the ingredients in The Ordinary Multi Peptide Serum:

Phytoestrogens from:

• Genistein, Daidzein, Formononetin, and Biochanin A from CAPIXYL™ Red Clover Extract
• Apigenin from Procapil™
• EGCG & Dihydroquercetin/Taxifolin from REDENSYL™ Green Tea Extract
• Coumestans from BAICAPIL™ Glycine Soja Germ Extract

All of these ingredients have some sort of estrogenic effects. Some of them, like Apigenin, can have an anti-estrogenic effect, which is dose-dependent. But It's unpredictable, especially in humans. Most of them bind to both alpha and beta estrogen receptors with high affinity and induce an abundant estrogenic state. Obviously, through these estrogenic mechanisms they induce hair growth. They antagonize the binding affinity of DHT, decrease LH & FSH (hormones that synergically induce testosterone production), and increase estradiol. An increase in estradiol would increase prolactin levels too (ref. to the other guy in this thread with prolactin increase). It makes full sense that this person reported this side effect.

After taking this product for only 20 days, the mark where it makes sense the ingredients have accumulated systemically, I noticed a significant decrease in libido. Very weak and anti-climatic orgasms, watery sperm consistency, lack of sexual impulse when stimulated (both physically and when looking at sexual triggers), a very flat/monotone feeling, low motivation, higher emotionality (cry easily when watching TV series etc). Even worse, 7-10 days later, I started noticing my nipples were flaring up. Always been prone to gynecomastia. But this onset was very significant. An itchy, pounding/pulsating feeling in my nipples. Physically, I noticed lumps on both nipples and it hurt to mess around with them. Tender, sensitive and painful.

What’s even more scary is that I used Aromasin (Exemestane, an aromatase inhibitor that prevents the conversion of testosterone to estrogen) to deal with these issues. I used the same dosage as I have before when my gyno has flared up (6-12 mg). However, I was shocked to notice how it wasn’t doing much and my symptoms were still present- and continuing to worsen. Then I added 30 mg of Raloxifene (SERM with high affinity for blocking estrogen receptors specifically in breast tissue) It helped some more but it was continuing to worsen.

It only makes sense after reading a couple of studies. This rodent study shows that genistein, a phytoestrogen in Red Clover, attenuates the anti-estrogenic effects of Tamoxifen/Nolvadex. Here’s another one; Genistein-Mediated Attenuation of Tamoxifen-Induced Antagonism from Estrogen Receptor-Regulated Genes

I stopped taking the product, and within 3 days, my nipple sensitivity lessened. Libido started returning too. One week later, the same symptoms were substantially lower. One week after that, even better. Gynecomastia lumps seem to recess inwards and disappear. Now there was only 10% of the sensitivity/tender feeling. Libido is feeling more normal and more intense like it’s supposed to be. Refractory period decreased significantly. Returning to my baseline for every day that I'm not taking the product.

To me, it’s clear that this product actually works, both due to the studies on it, but also the magnitude of the side effects which is similar to what I experienced on Finasteride. Clearly, I didn’t use it for enough time to determine any of its hair-growth effects, but the side effects speak for themselves. Most natural products that are commercialized for treating hair-loss don’t have these side effects, very likely because they don’t contain the appropriate amount to induce a significant pharmacological change in your physiology, but this product very much does so, and it only makes sense. Natural or synthetic; a substance with a specific mechanism of action can induce change when the concentration is sufficient. This product has ingredients that increase estrogen and also has dual 5A-reductase inhibition. That’s why I experienced the same side effects as Finasteride.

TL;DR- Took it for a month, started develop gynecomastia, worsened sex-drive, general hypogonadism, similar side effects to Finasteride, AI/SERM’s didn’t alleviate it, stopped taking it and symptoms went away

This is Janey-esque in terms of length. I often have people requesting TL;DR but I am like, I put my all into this, maybe at least scan it. One thing that you mention that I find quite interesting and that has to do with the probable "crowding out" effects of phyto-chemicals. This comes up every day on the Reddit HRT sites. Using substances like red clover, that are purported to be estrogenic, might just be blocking out the nature estrogens that all males and MTF's need for best health.

But remember, cows eat tons of red clover to the point where it lowers their fertility. None of us can consume more than likely enough of these phytochemicals to do much of anything in terms of hormonal fluctuations. Maybe someone on a strict "Asian diet" from birth might benefit hair-wise but once we see hair loss, even that option is likely just a mirage. Baldness and extensive beard growth is programmed into whites/Semites and people with varying proportions of "Mediterranean" blood. So we are swimming against the current always without adult female levels of T and E2. I keep hoping to be proven wrong.

 

[jantiloopez]

Yes to all of this and much of my search was at least initially, to see if using Estrogel on the scalp was a path for males and it seems that you have to use levels that go systemic and that are feminizing to get to the hair restoration benefits. Estrogel might still be great for maintenance in lower levels but so are finasteride and Duta so maybe non-feminizing amounts of Estrogel on the scalp might work for people for whom duta does not or maybe it could do so via synergy with finasteride/Duta but it has been approximately 100 years since estrogens were first identified in the lab and we have essentially no one except MtF's who have been able to use estrogens profitably for hair growth. There's a reason why topicals haven't been a thing really, except for minoxidil and it suffers from a very high non-response rate. Oral meds seem to virtually always work better. spironolactone might not work at all topically. Keto and Dandruff shampoos do work topically and polysorbates appear to work for some for minoxidil-type mostly maintenance results.

Few on here seek sheer maintenance any longer but in the mid-80's even achieving maintenance was a major break-through. Too bad the FDA yanked all of the commercials and shut down Dr. Lee but Polysorbates are readily available on Amazon.

Janey

"There's a reason why topicals haven't been a thing really, except for minoxidil and it suffers from a very high non-response rate."

IMO because there's more money in consuming a substance orally. More side effects leads to attempting to treat those symptoms too. For instance: Finasteride = libido dysfunction -> makes people seek to PDE5 inhibitors and perhaps testosterone-replacement treatment.

Topically allow for a lower dosage while maintaining efficacy. I have seen this statement before from authors in studies on Androgenetic Alopecia. It could also be because there hasn't been enough interest in developing a topical solution. Not sure why other than money being a factor, that I just mentioned. Perhaps conveniency is a factor too- easier to take a pill than applying a solution

This is Janey-esque in terms of length. I often have people requesting TL;DR but I am like, I put my all into this, maybe at least scan it. One thing that you mention that I find quite interesting and that has to do with the probable "crowding out" effects of phyto-chemicals. This comes up every day on the Reddit HRT sites. Using substances like red clover, that are purported to be estrogenic, might just be blocking out the nature estrogens that all males and MTF's need for best health.

But remember, cows eat tons of red clover to the point where it lowers their fertility. None of us can consume more than likely enough of these phytochemicals to do much of anything in terms of hormonal fluctuations. Maybe someone on a strict "Asian diet" from birth might benefit hair-wise but once we see hair loss, even that option is likely just a mirage. Baldness and extensive beard growth is programmed into whites/Semites and people with varying proportions of "Mediterranean" blood. So we are swimming against the current always without adult female levels of T and E2. I keep hoping to be proven wrong.

"None of us can consume more than likely enough of these phytochemicals to do much of anything in terms of hormonal fluctuations"

Being foreign, not sure if you are agreeing with me or not or whether you are denying my experience but I'm gonna reply as I see fit.

While that is true for most people, not everyone is "most people"- and that is me. Another example you can look at here, a case study of soy-induced gynecomastia, induced by "3 quarts of soy milk". There are guaranteed more of these cases and with other estrogenic herbs

But there's also a huge difference in dietary intake vs intake of a supplemental form that is concentrated, that skips first-pass metabolism and allowing direct access to the bloodstream. All these patents are extracts of those herbs to yield a high concentration of said phytoestrogens, and as I've pointed out in my post, that concentration is high (for better or worse)

You always have those who are sensitive, having genetic polymorphism etc. that increases vulnerability to hormonal fluctuations and pronounces side effects

"Using substances like red clover, that are purported to be estrogenic, might just be blocking out the nature estrogens that all males and MTF's need for best health."

I mean, they are estrogenic in the sense that they mimic estrogen, and they also increase endogenous estrogen production. But yes, males do not want that at all

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

"There's a reason why topicals haven't been a thing really, except for minoxidil and it suffers from a very high non-response rate."

IMO because there's more money in consuming a substance orally. More side effects leads to attempting to treat those symptoms too. For instance: Finasteride = libido dysfunction -> makes people seek to PDE5 inhibitors and perhaps testosterone-replacement treatment.

Topically allow for a lower dosage while maintaining efficacy. I have seen this statement before from authors in studies on Androgenetic Alopecia. It could also be because there hasn't been enough interest in developing a topical solution. Not sure why other than money being a factor, that I just mentioned. Perhaps conveniency is a factor too- easier to take a pill than applying a solution



"None of us can consume more than likely enough of these phytochemicals to do much of anything in terms of hormonal fluctuations"

Being foreign, not sure if you are agreeing with me or not or whether you are denying my experience but I'm gonna reply as I see fit.

While that is true for most people, not everyone is "most people"- and that is me. Another example you can look at here, a case study of soy-induced gynecomastia, induced by "3 quarts of soy milk". There are guaranteed more of these cases and with other estrogenic herbs

But there's also a huge difference in dietary intake vs intake of a supplemental form that is concentrated, that skips first-pass metabolism and allowing direct access to the bloodstream. All these patents are extracts of those herbs to yield a high concentration of said phytoestrogens, and as I've pointed out in my post, that concentration is high (for better or worse)

You always have those who are sensitive, having genetic polymorphism etc. that increases vulnerability to hormonal fluctuations and pronounces side effects

"Using substances like red clover, that are purported to be estrogenic, might just be blocking out the nature estrogens that all males and MTF's need for best health."

I mean, they are estrogenic in the sense that they mimic estrogen, and they also increase endogenous estrogen production. But yes, males do not want that at all

Many MtF's take this down reductively to the point where they are sucking (SL) on pills essentially whenever they are awake. Does it work? Probably yes for psycholigical effects but probably not for "results" but the hope is to always maintain estradiol levels for any beneficial purposes that extending E2 levels might result in. But since MtF's are often feeling around in the dark with both hands, it's not surprising that we know as little as we do related to effectuating changes in basic human morphology.

 

[Dimitri001]

A lot of them do. Caffeine, especially, is the one with probably the most studies. I have no idea why you would be saying it has a negative effect.
Plenty of studies show the hair-growth promoting benefits of caffeine. Even in the presence of UV-rays and testosterone, it abolishes the damage induced by both factors and helps to maintain the hair in the presence of those stressors

All of the studies on caffeine were in one way or another affiliated with a company selling a caffeine product. One of the studies found that a concentration of 0.001% was beneficial, while 0.005% had a negative effect on hair growth (I may have the numbers wrong, but it's something like that - this was in vitro).

The product they were selling had 2% caffeine, IIRC. When I emailed them to ask why such a high concentration when they found 0.005% to have a negative effect, the answer was that the lotion has to pass through the scalp and would consequently get diluted, so the concentration at the point of entry had to be higher.

How they know that 2% at point of entry will yield 0.001% at the follicle, rather than something higher that would have a negative effect on your hair I don't know.

 

[James_PT]

I've just read the Redensyl, Capixyl and Procapil combined treatment study again; the results are exciting to say the least. People here seem to have tried The Ordinary mutlipeptide serum without much success, despite it all sounding quite promising initially. Is anybody still using it (or another RCP-based/Redensyl-based product) or was it considered ineffective in the end?

These peptides are in quite a few products now. It's one thing to fake reviews but to fake a study?! Yet if the RCP combination worked as well as the study suggests it would blow minoxidil out of the water. I don't know what to believe anymore.

I would love for something like this to work. I did use it a while back and liked it from a cosmetic point of view but gave up for various reasons. I certainly didn't give it long enough to assess its effectiveness. Wondering whether it's worth looking at again.

 

[live-for-hair]

I have used it for 1 month straight in Jan 2022. It makes hair super greasy. It does interfere with Minoxidil as it has Zinc Chloride in it. Min and Zinc do not go well together. It caused increased shedding, thinning of hair, and also increased my Sebhorreic Dermatitis to a larger extent. I had to start using fortified Min (I can explain once asked) and also Melatonin-based serum to get my hair fall in check. Planning to add Microneedling soon ( but after Zix, I am keeping Microneedling as my last resort )

 

[losingbattle88]

Although I finally retired from posting from this place, I wanted to share something I found that is actually worth trying. Not only that but it's very inexpensive for how much product you get. It sells for $17.90 for 60ml supply. I use about almost close to 1ml all over each night. My scalp looks and feels healthy and no itchy scalp. And my hair density is actually improving. Been using it for about 1 month. If you look at the ingredients you can see it has peptide complexes that were created by some other 3rd parties in the past.

Here is some info about it.

This concentrated formula is designed to support hair health so that it looks thicker, denser, fuller and healthier. The technologies present in this formula include REDENSYL™ complex (with Larix Europaea Wood Extract and Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract), Procapil™ peptide complex (with Biotinoyl Tripeptide-1), CAPIXYL™ peptide complex (with Acetyl Tetrapeptide-3 and Trifolium Pratense Flower Extract), BAICAPIL™ complex (with Scutellaria Baicalensis Root Extract, Triticum Vulgare Germ Extract and Glycine Soja Germ Extract), AnaGain™ (Pisum Sativum Extract) and High-Solubility Caffeine (1% net Caffeine by weight), in an ultra-lightweight, emollient base for efficient penetration. The total concentration of these technologies in the formula by weight is 21.15%.

Ingredients:Aqua (Water), Propanediol, Butylene Glycol, Glycerin, Caffeine, Biotinoyl Tripeptide-1, Acetyl Tetrapeptide-3, Larix Europaea Wood Extract, Pisum Sativum Extract, Scutellaria Baicalensis Root Extract, Triticum Vulgare Germ Extract, Glycine Soja Germ Extract, Trifolium Pratense Flower Extract, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract, Apigenin, Oleanolic Acid, Arginine, Glycine, Calcium Gluconate, Zinc Chloride, Lactic Acid, Gluconolactone, Dextran, Maltodextrin, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Xanthan gum, Pentylene Glycol, Dimethyl Isosorbide, Polysorbate 20, PPG-26-Buteth-26, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Trisodium Ethylenediamine Disuccinate, Sodium Metabisulfite, Sodium Benzoate, Phenoxyethanol, Chlorphenesin.

I would definitely not use this in place of minoxidil or finasteride but as additional treatment to fight hair loss at another angle. For those who suffer from Hashimoto's thyroiditis or age related hair loss, this would definitely be beneficial.

Guess whos back? Doctor house.

 

[live-for-hair]

No, never tried it. I guess orally supplementing your body with melatonin at night along with resveratrol won't hurt either. I am all for trying new things so give it a shot.

I am using Melatonin based serum and it is helping me to reduce the shedding. Melatonin does help with reducing the shedding in my opinion. I use this one - https://www.1mg.com/otc/folliserum-hair-growth-serum-otc330362. It has Adenosine as well. You may try some other brand that is available in your area. I checked with my dermat. He also agreed that Mela should help in reducing shedding

 

[DoctorHouse]

Guess whos back? Doctor house.

LOL, I just couldn't stay away. It was actually you that drew me back. Your username reminded me of what is happening to my hair.

 

[HairLiker]

Interesting thread. I doubt this does much to fight AA, but it can't hurt, and since it's so cheap it's probably worth it for the aesthetic effect alone.

On a related note, has anyone used Curlsmith's Full Lengths Density Elixir?

More expensive than the Ordinary's serum, but promising list of ingredients: Redensyl, Capixyl, Procapil, Baicapil, Anagain, Castor Oil, Cedar Wood, Witch Hazel, Pea Sprout, Lavender, Amla, Soybean, Thyme, Clover, Green Tea.

Available on Amazon and iHerb: https://www.iherb.com/pr/curlsmith-full-lengths-density-elixir-2-fl-oz-60-ml/108027

 

[James_PT]

Interesting thread. I doubt this does much to fight AA, but it can't hurt, and since it's so cheap it's probably worth it for the aesthetic effect alone.

On a related note, has anyone used Curlsmith's Full Lengths Density Elixir?

More expensive than the Ordinary's serum, but promising list of ingredients: Redensyl, Capixyl, Procapil, Baicapil, Anagain, Castor Oil, Cedar Wood, Witch Hazel, Pea Sprout, Lavender, Amla, Soybean, Thyme, Clover, Green Tea.

Available on Amazon and iHerb: https://www.iherb.com/pr/curlsmith-full-lengths-density-elixir-2-fl-oz-60-ml/108027

Hey, actually I've just started using Curlsmith's elixir and from a purely cosmetic point of view, it's great. You can even apply in the morning and it dries up really well without being oily. Plus, according to a Q&A on Amazon, the manufacturer says they use between 2-5% of the actives - TO won't even say how much they use, which leads me to believe that the concentrations are very low. Also, I've become increasingly sceptical about caffeine and believe it may even do more harm than good, especially ay higher concentrations, based on a couple of papers I've read.

 

[HairLiker]

Nice! I'll probably order a bottle then, thanks.

 

[Danjellyman]

I just started this last week! We shall see.

 

[Baldingtooyoung]

I just started this last week! We shall see.

Same as i suspect i am allergic to minoxidil and need something to grow my hair, besides blocking DHT.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

bump