The liver and male pattern baldness

Hoppi

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I thought I'd start this thread to kind of liberate this topic from just malic acid and choline, as although I think they are very useful there is more to liver health than cholesterol and calcium control, and it would be great to discuss this very important and hormone-influencing organ in more detail.

Of course, when we discuss liver health we also have to cover the health of the gallbladder and biliary tree, as stones, sludge (also caused mostly by cholesterol), parasites, bacteria, toxins and other issues can affect those portions also.

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All of these factors affect toxicity in the liver, and in turn this affects our hormone levels. A struggling liver simply cannot filter and detoxify the blood as efficiently, and this applies to hormones too, which just like toxins are expelled through bile. My friend explained this excess DHT that exists therefore as almost like a toxin we can't remove sufficiently, so it gradually builds up. Decreased bile flow caused by cholesterol, calcified stones and/or parasites such as liver flukes or bacteria causes digestive problems such as bloating, food intolerances, candida and ulcers, greatly increased toxicity and inflammation of the organs of the biliary system (liver, gallbladder and pancreas) and in turn increases cholesterol levels in the body leading also to increased levels of DHEA and DHT. Levels of SHBG can also be affected, leading to less accurate sex hormone regulation.

In addition, overwhelming the liver with toxins such as that produced from alcohol also burden it, and excessive levels of hormones such as insulin and cortisol. Personally however I feel that cholesterol and parasites/bacteria have the most significant effects, but this is a matter for debate and the former in particular is greatly affected by alcohol, insulin AND cortisol, so it all appears to tie together in the end at least in that respect.

Anyway, that sets the scene a bit for the case for the liver's role in sex hormone regulation and by consequence in androgenetic alopecia. Again I'm really not saying it is the cause in everyone but to ignore the liver as an incredible regulator of hormones and victim of significant age-related abuse (many causes of which such as insulin and alcohol are very often casually associated - rightly or wrongly - with male pattern baldness) is just unwise in my opinion.

Anyway, I hope this thread proves interesting - I really don't think it's something we should overlook.

Hoppi :)
 

Hoppi

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I don't think too much focus should be put on any one single case. Principally because it does seem like we all have different levels of baseline genetic susceptibility.

And also I think this is a common misconception that this kind of thinking necessitates viewing male pattern baldness as some kind of disease or illness - I just believe that something with such clear genetic and hormonal ties probably has both genetic and hormonal triggers (and does seem to through observation). Of course I believe that all this is mainly happening because we are male - our baseline hormonal levels and probably also follicular genetic make-up make us hugely more susceptible than women to Androgenetic Alopecia, which is something that at least today we have to live with. But if you CHANGE our internal hormonal balance during life... does it not make sense to assume this will affect things that are regulated by it, such as our hair follicles?

Regarding what you said about evolutionary advancement and hair loss - would you not agree that loss of scalp hair tends to correlate with an increase in body hair due to the effects of DHT? I for one had a marked increase in my body hair that matched the timing of my male pattern baldness starting precisely.
 

Hoppi

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Hm.

For the first time I am really starting to entertain the fact that bacteria and/or parasites really can play a role in this stuff. Yes, cholesterol and calcium block up the liver and bile tree, but so do parasites and essentially bacteria too. Parasites like flukes or worms can cluster together and physically impact the flow of bile, and bacteria like salmonella can apparently enter the liver via the blood and EAT bile, all the while creating toxins. Of course, I knew they could get into the intestines and dusrupt microflora balance but that never really explained male pattern baldness to me, but this coming to light about the liver suddenly presents a possibility. It has also been suggested that the liver might form stones to trap parasites or bacteria. Whether that is true or not, the connection between these harmful organisms and bile blockage and liver toxicity seems as logical at this point as cholesterol or calcium.

Makes me wonder if this is why people say eating undercooked or out of date meat can give you "IBS".

EDIT -- Oh. my. god. Imagine if THIS was why pomegranate and jogging worked for Justin against male pattern baldness! Not because he somehow dissolved stones and sludge in under 2 weeks (the time before he saw results) but because pomegranate can kill e. coli, salmonella, and TONS of other food-bourne pathogens! Holy f* man... if this is true... the simplicity will drive me nuts lol

Just before my egg allergy started my friends always warned me about my terrible habits cooking chicken... perhaps, just perhaps, they were right!
 

Hoppi

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Thkmra said:
This is positively benign...Uh..'News flash people', scientist have recently come upon a break through in what is believed to be the REAL reason men go bald, and in fact how a cure could be procured in about 10 years time!!




http://health.usnews.com/health-news/fa ... dness.html

This might be best moved into a new or different thread - it has nothing to do with the liver...
 

Thkmra

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Hoppi said:
Thkmra said:
This is positively benign...Uh..'News flash people', scientist have recently come upon a break through in what is believed to be the REAL reason men go bald, and in fact how a cure could be procured in about 10 years time!!




http://health.usnews.com/health-news/fa ... dness.html

This might be best moved into a new or different thread - it has nothing to do with the liver...

Just has male pattern baldness either!! Carry on with your 'monster hunt' though...no offense!!
 

Bryan

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Thkmra said:
Hoppi said:
This might be best moved into a new or different thread - it has nothing to do with the liver...

Just has male pattern baldness either!! Carry on with your 'monster hunt' though...no offense!!

Outstanding reply!! :)
 

muhu

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Hoppi, this may sound nasty, but:

please, just get on the big 3 and shut up. I wouldn't be surprised if you were using urine on your head.
 

Thom

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At least he is trying new things. If you do not like his beliefs about the liver then there is no reason to leave a rude reply. I for one applaud his perseverance in testing this theory. Keep up with it Hoppi!
 

Bryan

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Thom said:
At least he is trying new things. If you do not like his beliefs about the liver then there is no reason to leave a rude reply. I for one applaud his perseverance in testing this theory. Keep up with it Hoppi!

Oh, you really think he's "testing" theories, instead of simply jumping from one harebrained idea to the next, every few days? :)
 

Hoppi

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Thanks Thom :) I have a lot of faith in it and do intend to test it thoroughly! I also have a friend who is CONVINCED that bacteria (and parasites... maybe I'm not sure) are the overall culprits for male pattern baldness in a much more holistic and integral way than me (and also has a friend that claims 100% healing of male pattern baldness), so although I don't really follow his views as such, we are both following our own related paths and waiting to see what the outcome is.

I understand that lots of people don't agree, and I understand I can be a bit erratic ( /eccentric lol) and hard to follow - but hey soon we'll see whether it works or not anyway :)

EDIT -- Joke is even with all this complexity and stuff now you can pretty much summarize this approach with "Be healthy, and eat lots and lots of apples and pomegranates". lol :)
 

Thom

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Bryan said:
Thom said:
At least he is trying new things. If you do not like his beliefs about the liver then there is no reason to leave a rude reply. I for one applaud his perseverance in testing this theory. Keep up with it Hoppi!

Oh, you really think he's "testing" theories, instead of simply jumping from one harebrained idea to the next, every few days? :)

Well he does seem to test them to me as he posts an update now and then about the daily effects of his treatments. Even if he didn't test them thoroughly I still don't see a reason to attack him for updating or changing his theories on male pattern baldness. I just think that if people aren't interested in what he has to say they can leave well enough alone rather than be rude about it.

Hoppi, your bacteria theory may actually explain the itching most of us get when we are losing our hair. Right about the time I started thinning I had the worst itching and bumps all over my head. I fight it a bit better now with only minor itching so hopefully some of that will grow back.
 

Hoppi

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Thom, I'll have to be honest uuuusually I simply blame DHT for every phenomenon I experience on my scalp - itching, dandruff, etc, as it all seems to stem from inflammation and/or sebum caused or encouraged by DHT. I too had theories about some kind of weakening or infection on my scalp that started when my male pattern baldness did, but I discarded this idea when I noticed my body hair increased at the same time, as that suggested to me the change was purely androgenic. Add to that the egg intolerance and digestive issues starting at precisely the same time, and you begin to see why everything pointed to my liver, a path backed up by the successful Justin :)
 

elliotramsey

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As far as that article that's been going around that everyone is hailing as a sign of a nearby cure, I think it should be pointed out that scientists still have no idea what causes hairloss. They've simply observed a side effect of hairloss in the cells.
 

Hoppi

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elliotramsey said:
As far as that article that's been going around that everyone is hailing as a sign of a nearby cure, I think it should be pointed out that scientists still have no idea what causes hairloss. They've simply observed a side effect of hairloss in the cells.

I don't really agree...

We may not know the precise mechanism that causes male pattern baldness once the androgen hits the follicle's receptor, but we understand, very logically, that the trigger is androgens. And that's all the knowledge that this approach requires anyway (as we are merely discussing a potential cause of hormonal imbalance) - don't you agree?
 

Bryan

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Thom said:
Bryan said:
Oh, you really think he's "testing" theories, instead of simply jumping from one harebrained idea to the next, every few days? :)

Well he does seem to test them to me as he posts an update now and then about the daily effects of his treatments.

Oh, you mean like the way he announced recently that when a friend of his had stopped drinking green tea, the guy's balding had been cured in one week's time?? :) You need to understand that some of the things he says are so silly and ridiculous, it's better just to be honest with him, even if it seems "rude" to you.
 

Bryan

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elliotramsey said:
As far as that article that's been going around that everyone is hailing as a sign of a nearby cure, I think it should be pointed out that scientists still have no idea what causes hairloss.

"No idea" what causes hairloss?? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? :)
 

Hoppi

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Bryan said:
elliotramsey said:
As far as that article that's been going around that everyone is hailing as a sign of a nearby cure, I think it should be pointed out that scientists still have no idea what causes hairloss.

"No idea" what causes hairloss?? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? :)

lol - at least we agree on one thing! ^^
 

Thom

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Hoppi said:
Thom, I'll have to be honest uuuusually I simply blame DHT for every phenomenon I experience on my scalp - itching, dandruff, etc, as it all seems to stem from inflammation and/or sebum caused or encouraged by DHT. I too had theories about some kind of weakening or infection on my scalp that started when my male pattern baldness did, but I discarded this idea when I noticed my body hair increased at the same time, as that suggested to me the change was purely androgenic. Add to that the egg intolerance and digestive issues starting at precisely the same time, and you begin to see why everything pointed to my liver, a path backed up by the successful Justin :)


I'm not sure because I know people who are experiencing male pattern baldness and they do not get the itch. I didn't get the itch until I moved into a new house in a different part of the city so I always had my theories about the amount of chemicals in the water affecting my scalp. Funny thing is, after moving my cats all started balding on their hindquarters so maybe there's a correlation?

What's also unusual is that minoxidil relieves my scalp itching as where it worsens it for other people.
 

muhu

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Thom said:
At least he is trying new things. If you do not like his beliefs about the liver then there is no reason to leave a rude reply. I for one applaud his perseverance in testing this theory. Keep up with it Hoppi!

maybe if he didn't jump into a new regimen every 72 hours I'd give him some bit of credibility...I mean you gotta try a treatment at least 6 months before knowing weather or not it's working....

I actually think Hoppi doesn't have MBP because if he did he'd realize that it takes awhile for treatments to start working...he's probably just another one of those 23 year old guys with a nw1.5 scared about losing hair.

i hope i don't sound nasty but yea man try something for 6 months + and then come tell us if it works or not...
 
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