The Elephant In The Room - Weight Lifting

[doubleindemnity]

I've asked a ton of women about this over the years and while they do vary a little bit the majority say they like lean men with a bit of muscle.

Examples:

View attachment 96703

View attachment 96704

Note: this body is still hard to achieve.

On studies I've read, men apparently think women like bigger bodies like this:

View attachment 96705

But its just not true and most women will say that he is 'too much' (although he still wouldn't struggle to find a woman!).

The important thing is to relax because the first two bodies I've posted can be achieved by having low body fat and about two years worth of lifting.

On one of you other points:

Yes, it is easier to stand out in your 30s by having a good body. Most men have gone to crap by their mid 30s. Studies in my country show that 60% of men over 30 are fat! So just by being slim and toned puts you in the top 40% of men automatically.

Why would you ask women? You should instead do some kind of audit of the guys that they have dated or even guys that they swoon over. You'll find no common characteristics body wise. The main common characteriatic would be the hair. That's what I think.

Also, for the first two bodies you showed, it wouldn't be obvious that a guy has that body while wearing clothes. So you could simply simply be sufficiently slim to have the same look in clothes. I'm basically saying that trying to get in shape to be more attractive to women is always a terrible idea because it doesn't work in practice. Get in shape because you want to because women do not care.

 

[JohnsonDDG]

Why would you ask women? You should instead do some kind of audit of the guys that they have dated or even guys that they swoon over. You'll find no common characteristics body wise. The main common characteriatic would be the hair. That's what I think.

Also, for the first two bodies you showed, it wouldn't be obvious that a guy has that body while wearing clothes. So you could simply simply be sufficiently slim to have the same look in clothes. I'm basically saying that trying to get in shape to be more attractive to women is always a terrible idea because it doesn't work in practice. Get in shape because you want to because women do not care.

I have a lot of female friends and they will ask me what kind of women I like and I will ask the same to them about men.

 

[LastSamurai]

Why would you ask women? You should instead do some kind of audit of the guys that they have dated or even guys that they swoon over. You'll find no common characteristics body wise. The main common characteriatic would be the hair. That's what I think.

Also, for the first two bodies you showed, it wouldn't be obvious that a guy has that body while wearing clothes. So you could simply simply be sufficiently slim to have the same look in clothes. I'm basically saying that trying to get in shape to be more attractive to women is always a terrible idea because it doesn't work in practice. Get in shape because you want to because women do not care.

Well, I think we get in shape for health, but also to be attractive. I think most people who go to gym do so for a number of reasons. Not just for women but not just because you want. I mean, you want either way, it just depends on what your motivations are which I guess is what you are saying.

I agree, just getting in shape for women would be ridiculous, but I think most of us know it's good for our health, it boosts our mood, and it makes us more attractive, at the very least indirectly. DI, I think you're being too extreme with your hair or nothing view. I agree, sufficiently slim is good, but what does that actually mean in practice? If you had no muscles then and were skinny you wouldn't look good in clothes. So its not just a question of weight but also muscle.

That's where working out comes into play. You look better in clothes because of it. So you can't deny there is an effect. Although yes, the law of diminishing effect does apply here.

 

[JohnsonDDG]

Well, I think we get in shape for health, but also to be attractive. I think most people who go to gym do so for a number of reasons. Not just for women but not just because you want. I mean, you want either way, it just depends on what your motivations are which I guess is what you are saying.

I agree, just getting in shape for women would be ridiculous, but I think most of us know it's good for our health, it boosts our mood, and it makes us more attractive, at the very least indirectly. DI, I think you're being too extreme with your hair or nothing view. I agree, sufficiently slim is good, but what does that actually mean in practice? If you had no muscles then and were skinny you wouldn't look good in clothes. So its not just a question of weight but also muscle.

That's where working out comes into play. You look better in clothes because of it. So you can't deny there is an effect. Although yes, the law of diminishing effect does apply here.

I actually work out only for the way it makes me look.

This benefits how I see myself, how friends and family see me, how strangers see me, how the opposite sex treat me,

Everyone treats you better when you look better (except salty competitors who may be jealous of how you look - good looking women get this from dowdy women).

 

[LastSamurai]

I actually work out only for the way it makes me look.

This benefits how I see myself, how friends and family see me, how strangers see me, how the opposite sex treat me,

Everyone treats you better when you look better (except salty competitors who may be jealous of how you look - good looking women get this from dowdy women).

Thanks for your honesty there Johnson. I personally workout because it lifts me from tiredness, anxiety, depressed mood, makes me generally feel better and sleep better. I guess that's the immediate effect. But the longer term is that I'm looking after my health and that indirectly it's going to help my chances with women.

 

[doubleindemnity]

i like how so many people like to give “examples” by drawing up a hypothetical situation and can actually give you numerical data (100 times more attractive) as a definitive result for all realities. And bam! Here you have it, here is your proof for the point I was making! It's all scientific!

jokes aside, It’s such an old old debate on this forum .. hair is life and we are all doomed vs find confidence elsewhere in spite of hair loss
I guess we all cope with it differently

Here's my rationale. It will be more plausible when I describe it. Imagine those two guys. One is a NW1 who goes to the barbershop every 4 weeks. The other keeps himself in top shape around 16 hours per week along with a good diet, but he is a NW6. In a year, the NW6 guy is going to get checked out and admired by a woman around 5 times. The NW1 will see it around 500 times.

I have a lot of female friends and they will ask me what kind of women I like and I will ask the same to them about men.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to give you a hard time over it. I just believe that what they say and what they do can often disagree. But you clearly know that already.

Well, I think we get in shape for health, but also to be attractive. I think most people who go to gym do so for a number of reasons. Not just for women but not just because you want. I mean, you want either way, it just depends on what your motivations are which I guess is what you are saying.

I agree, just getting in shape for women would be ridiculous, but I think most of us know it's good for our health, it boosts our mood, and it makes us more attractive, at the very least indirectly. DI, I think you're being too extreme with your hair or nothing view. I agree, sufficiently slim is good, but what does that actually mean in practice? If you had no muscles then and were skinny you wouldn't look good in clothes. So its not just a question of weight but also muscle.

That's where working out comes into play. You look better in clothes because of it. So you can't deny there is an effect. Although yes, the law of diminishing effect does apply here.

My point was that if you had the physique of one of the two 'ideal' physiques posted in this thread, you'd look skinny in clothes. So why not just be skinny in the first place...

 

[JohnsonDDG]

Girls can tell:

skinny dude

Athletic dude

 

[justinbieberscombover]

Girls can tell:

skinny dude

View attachment 96786

Athletic dude

View attachment 96787

Exactly. doubleindemnity once again proves to be clueless and delusional..

I have the "swimmer" body you posted. When I wear big shirts I can look a bit skinny, so I just wear nothing but tight t shirts, and elevate the sleeves a bit when necessary.

Shoulders, traps, neck, chest.. girls notice those things. Look up ideal shoulder to waist/hip ratio, y'all.

 

[doubleindemnity]

Girls can tell:

skinny dude

View attachment 96786

Athletic dude

View attachment 96787

Different types of shirts. The first guy has a very long shirt while the second guy has one that's cut differently, shorter and tucked in. Notice how much more of the neck of the second guy is exposed because of the shirt's shape. In addition, if the first guy gained about 5kg so that he weighed as much as the second guy, he'd look the same. It's not a fair competition if they don't weigh the same. My point is that you should eat your way up or down to the correct bodyweight and then, in clothes, it will make you look more or less the same as these 'built' guys who weigh the same and whose photos are being posted here.

Secondly, it doesn't matter even if they can tell. My point is that women do not care. But in this case, I still think that if we make the adjustments that I mentioned, the first guy would look 'athletic' too. I myself am a good example of this. If I wear an average t shirt, I look slim. If i wear a tightly fitting one, I look very big and bulky. Neither make a difference to how I'm perceived by women. Men can tell, of course.

 

[Baldingat188]

Working out helps , and it’s one of the few things in our control so it’s worth mentioning but it doesn’t have nearly as much impact on attractiveness as face or hair does. You can’t make it so black and white by saying that working out + no hair = medium attractiveness .

I’ve been working out for years with little to show for it . I work out casually and look ok , but it doesn’t compensate for being short or for having thinning hair even though luckily my hair is doing ok right now .

 

[justinbieberscombover]

Different types of shirts. The first guy has a very long shirt while the second guy has one that's cut differently, shorter and tucked in. Notice how much more of the neck of the second guy is exposed because of the shirt's shape. In addition, if the first guy gained about 5kg so that he weighed as much as the second guy, he'd look the same. It's not a fair competition if they don't weigh the same. My point is that you should eat your way up or down to the correct bodyweight and then, in clothes, it will make you look more or less the same as these 'built' guys who weigh the same and whose photos are being posted here.

Secondly, it doesn't matter even if they can tell. My point is that women do not care. But in this case, I still think that if we make the adjustments that I mentioned, the first guy would look 'athletic' too. I myself am a good example of this. If I wear an average t shirt, I look slim. If i wear a tightly fitting one, I look very big and bulky. Neither make a difference to how I'm perceived by women. Men can tell, of course.

Nope. 2nd guy def has more muscle mass. 1st guy isn't the worst though; I see skinnier guys all the time, often with a gut.

 

[doubleindemnity]

Nope. 2nd guy def has more muscle mass. 1st guy isn't the worst though; I see skinnier guys all the time, often with a gut.

My main point is that, although we see it, most women will not or will not adjust their assessment of a man's attractiveness based on it. If you want to see evidence of this, please PM me and I'll show you numerous photos that I had rated. The ones showing my muscles did not do well. The phltop that did well were always the ones taken in lighting that concealed my diffuse thinning effectively.

 

[doyle11]

There's even more reason to lift if you are balding.

Being bald is bad enough but baldness and a pencil neck or beer gut is just going to destroy any chance you may have had. Keeping in shape also reduces fat in your face making you look more chiseled and masculine.

A good body is understated here. Look at vin diesel. He is bald as f*** and has one of the ugliest faces in Hollywood and still had millions swooning over him. He lost his shape and nobody gives a sh*t anymore.

Even if not for the aesthetics, do it for the health and general wellbeing.

 

[LastSamurai]

There's even more reason to lift if you are balding.

Being bald is bad enough but baldness and a pencil neck or beer gut is just going to destroy any chance you may have had. Keeping in shape also reduces fat in your face making you look more chiseled and masculine.

A good body is understated here. Look at vin diesel. He is bald as f*** and has one of the ugliest faces in Hollywood and still had millions swooning over him. He lost his shape and nobody gives a sh*t anymore.

Even if not for the aesthetics, do it for the health and general wellbeing.

Exactly Doyle!

 

[doubleindemnity]

There's even more reason to lift if you are balding.

Being bald is bad enough but baldness and a pencil neck or beer gut is just going to destroy any chance you may have had. Keeping in shape also reduces fat in your face making you look more chiseled and masculine.

A good body is understated here. Look at vin diesel. He is bald as f*** and has one of the ugliest faces in Hollywood and still had millions swooning over him. He lost his shape and nobody gives a sh*t anymore.

Even if not for the aesthetics, do it for the health and general wellbeing.

Vin Diesel had millions swooning over him because he was/is a movie star. His physique has never been that great. Make no mistake. If he wasn't a good enough actor to be a leading action star, he'd be just like us.

Being bald destroys any chance you may have had. Nothing - not being in shape, taking care of your skin, looking masculine - can change that. Take it from me, a guy who is in good shape and is being told so all the time, but can not get anywhere in finding a romantic partner (trying for almost 2 years).

 

[nohairnolife]

You need to not be rail-thin but the truth about attractiveness is it's 90% facial structure, not even hair. The problem is, balding for guys with a weak facial structure is a death sentence because it makes them look even more freakish and removes the only thing that can influence how your face looks.

All of the photo examples of attractive guys in this thread are men with strong facial structure. Vin Diesel too. Someone said he was ugly but in terms of objective proportions that the brain recognizes as beauty he's only slightly flawed

 

[justinbieberscombover]

You need to not be rail-thin but the truth about attractiveness is it's 90% facial structure, not even hair. The problem is, balding for guys with a weak facial structure is a death sentence because it makes them look even more freakish and removes the only thing that can influence how your face looks.

All of the photo examples of attractive guys in this thread are men with strong facial structure. Vin Diesel too. Someone said he was ugly but in terms of objective proportions that the brain recognizes as beauty he's only slightly flawed

Cope. Most top tier models and Hollywood heart throbs become creepy and generic looking without hair.

 

[nohairnolife]

Cope. Most top tier models and Hollywood heart throbs become creepy and generic looking without hair.

They would look 10x worse with bad facial structure. A bad jawline, poorly shaped eyes, bad symmetry, wide upper thirds, misshapen proportions on the lower third...guys with weird faces are the ones that get called ugly. The few that can pull off bald (which is *never* better than with hair) have top-tier facial genetics.

 

[justinbieberscombover]

They would look 10x worse with bad facial structure. A bad jawline, poorly shaped eyes, bad symmetry, wide upper thirds, misshapen proportions on the lower third...guys with weird faces are the ones that get called ugly. The few that can pull off bald (which is *never* better than with hair) have top-tier facial genetics.

Vin looks like Shrek.

How is this different than literally any other bald guy with a big frame? His jawline is literally nonexistent too.

 

[nohairnolife]

Vin looks like Shrek.

View attachment 97128


How is this different than literally any other bald guy with a big frame? His jawline is literally nonexistent too.

His jawline is fine, what you're seeing is that he's put on weight from his heyday. He's not exactly shredded anymore.

The guy is also a very wealthy movie star.