Ten Year Finasteride Study..

[BritishUser]

What do you think of this? Has anyone read the actual paper...

http://gabelcenter.com/blog/2011/10...-your-provider-of-hair-transplants-in-oregon/

More info....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21910805

 

[Chris87]

The sample size seems a bit small..118 guys. I find it interesting though that sides effects were reported in 6%...obviously triple that of what Merck claims..interesstttttinnnnggggg

 

[BritishUser]

Any study info is useful in some way, I think.

 

[abcdefg]

Something is better then nothing. They should do some studies how it affects a mature hairline, or how much it helps in the front or temples area.

 

[Wuffer]

The sample size seems a bit small..118 guys. I find it interesting though that sides effects were reported in 6%...obviously triple that of what Merck claims..interesstttttinnnnggggg

Notice there is no placebo control. If you gave 118 guys a sugar pill and told them it was a new hair loss cure, I can guarantee a number of them will come back with sexual problems. Based on most studies of Finasteride i've seen, roughly 3-4% of placebo control patients complain of sexual symptoms. I assume this is consistent with incidence rates that occur within the general population.

 

[Paulgreer]

6% huh, honestly it wouldn't surprise me if it was much higher than that.

 

[Rawtashk]

:shakehead:
Here we go again. A clinical study...and people are going to come in and go "Ya...it was probably higher than what they reported."

Also, just because you say 2+2=4 doesn't make it true...wut?

 

[Paulgreer]

:shakehead:
Here we go again. A clinical study...and people are going to come in and go "Ya...it was probably higher than what they reported."

Also, just because you say 2+2=4 doesn't make it true...wut?

Hahahha, and I bet you think that your Allopregnanolone levels are normal as well. Do you not know what damage that 5AR2 inhibition, and the retardation of vital neurosteroids in your brain, and CNS are going to cause long term? This drug has only been prescribed, and evaluated for Androgenetic Alopecia for the past 15 years; and even more damning is the fact that research scientists have only discovered that Finasteride inhibit's neurosteroids recently- and that's not even to mention the fact that Finasteride also retards the recently discovered 5AR3 Isoenzyme! what happens when your body's natural defense against neurodegenertive disorders is hindered for 30 years, or even twenty, or ten?

 

[Wuffer]

Hahahha, and I bet you think that your Allopregnanolone levels are normal as well. Do you not know what damage that 5AR2 inhibition, and the retardation of vital neurosteroids in your brain, and CNS are going to cause long term? This drug has only been prescribed, and evaluated for Androgenetic Alopecia for the past 15 years; and even more damning is the fact that research scientists have only discovered that Finasteride inhibit's neurosteroids recently- and that's not even to mention the fact that Finasteride also retards the recently discovered 5AR3 Isoenzyme! what happens when your body's natural defense against neurodegenertive disorders is hindered for 30 years, or even twenty, or ten?

Seriously, let's not turn this into another one of these threads. Please, just because some of us chose to take Finasteride does not mean we are bad guys. Everybody; whether they chose to take Finasteride or chose not to, looked at the facts, spoke with their doctors and made a decision based on their own terms.

I really dislike your post because for some reason you are insinuating that people who choose to take Finasteride are the bad guys? It really doesn't make sense, and I’ve seen a lot more hate directed towards us lately (just for even saying we take the stuff). Nobody thinks it’s impossible for Finasteride to cause serious side effects. However, my interpretation of the current data shows me that it’s very unlikely to suffer serious problems. I could be wrong and end up with a whole heap of problems, but I’m willing to take a chance because hair loss is important for me, and at the time it was impacting all aspects of my life negatively. Does my decision make me a bad person and an idiot?

I have personally known people that have been on Proscar or Propecia for over 10 years. My current family doctor is one of them. None of these men have exhibited any symptoms of neurodegeneration or anything even closely resembling this. There have been several long term studies done on Finasteride (over 5 years) and these findings were also not found. Yes, this data may not be the most recent, but it is certainly powerful. However, I do understand that more data is required to know for sure whether this is happening or not.

In closing, chill out man. We are only looking for what's best for us at the moment. We have seen the studies and for us, these findings are not conclusive enough to warrant stopping treatment. Possibly, in a couple months time, more conclusive findings will be available that make me personally want to stop. Maybe some men will choose to continue treatment regardless of what is found.

 

[BritishUser]

I notice people who warn others of the possible long term evils of finasteride, often seem happy to take or use untested experimental concoctions as an alternative.

A little bit of hypocrisy there.

 

[Cassin]

I notice people who warn others of the possible long term evils of finasteride, often seem happy to take or use untested experimental concoctions as an alternative.

A little bit of hypocrisy there.

Exactly. Sadly those that bring up this valid point are often accused of being paid off by someone.

 

[Paulgreer]

Hahahha, and I bet you think that your Allopregnanolone levels are normal as well. Do you not know what damage that 5AR2 inhibition, and the retardation of vital neurosteroids in your brain, and CNS are going to cause long term? This drug has only been prescribed, and evaluated for Androgenetic Alopecia for the past 15 years; and even more damning is the fact that research scientists have only discovered that Finasteride inhibit's neurosteroids recently- and that's not even to mention the fact that Finasteride also retards the recently discovered 5AR3 Isoenzyme! what happens when your body's natural defense against neurodegenertive disorders is hindered for 30 years, or even twenty, or ten?

Seriously, let's not turn this into another one of these threads. Please, just because some of us chose to take Finasteride does not mean we are bad guys. Everybody; whether they chose to take Finasteride or chose not to, looked at the facts, spoke with their doctors and made a decision based on their own terms.

I really dislike your post because for some reason you are insinuating that people who choose to take Finasteride are the bad guys? It really doesn't make sense, and I’ve seen a lot more hate directed towards us lately (just for even saying we take the stuff). Nobody thinks it’s impossible for Finasteride to cause serious side effects. However, my interpretation of the current data shows me that it’s very unlikely to suffer serious problems. I could be wrong and end up with a whole heap of problems, but I’m willing to take a chance because hair loss is important for me, and at the time it was impacting all aspects of my life negatively. Does my decision make me a bad person and an idiot?

I have personally known people that have been on Proscar or Propecia for over 10 years. My current family doctor is one of them. None of these men have exhibited any symptoms of neurodegeneration or anything even closely resembling this. There have been several long term studies done on Finasteride (over 5 years) and these findings were also not found. Yes, this data may not be the most recent, but it is certainly powerful. However, I do understand that more data is required to know for sure whether this is happening or not.

In closing, chill out man. We are only looking for what's best for us at the moment. We have seen the studies and for us, these findings are not conclusive enough to warrant stopping treatment. Possibly, in a couple months time, more conclusive findings will be available that make me personally want to stop. Maybe some men will choose to continue treatment regardless of what is found.

Woh slow down there Charles Dickens you didn't have to write me a book about it. Anyway where in my post did I suggest that you or anyone else was a ''bad guy'' I never said anything to that effect, I don't get it?

 

[Paulgreer]

I notice people who warn others of the possible long term evils of finasteride, often seem happy to take or use untested experimental concoctions as an alternative.

A little bit of hypocrisy there.

Here's a prettty well known fact, topical treatments are always less systemically active than internal drugs, so it's a far cry to act as if those who use experimental topicals are risking the same thing.

 

[Rawtashk]

I notice people who warn others of the possible long term evils of finasteride, often seem happy to take or use untested experimental concoctions as an alternative.

A little bit of hypocrisy there.

Here's a prettty well known fact, topical treatments are always less systemically active than internal drugs, so it's a far cry to act as if those who use experimental topicals are risking the same thing.

I like how you ignored the part where he said "...seem happy to take or use untested experimental concoctions as an alternative."

He wasn't talking about systematic absorbtion, he was talking about un-tested drugs (RU, CB, etc) that people seem to have no problem jumping right on and trying before clinical trials are even completed on them.

 

[abcdefg]

:shakehead:
Here we go again. A clinical study...and people are going to come in and go "Ya...it was probably higher than what they reported."

Also, just because you say 2+2=4 doesn't make it true...wut?

Hahahha, and I bet you think that your Allopregnanolone levels are normal as well. Do you not know what damage that 5AR2 inhibition, and the retardation of vital neurosteroids in your brain, and CNS are going to cause long term? This drug has only been prescribed, and evaluated for Androgenetic Alopecia for the past 15 years; and even more damning is the fact that research scientists have only discovered that Finasteride inhibit's neurosteroids recently- and that's not even to mention the fact that Finasteride also retards the recently discovered 5AR3 Isoenzyme! what happens when your body's natural defense against neurodegenertive disorders is hindered for 30 years, or even twenty, or ten?

What does this new 5-ar type 3 enzyme do or what study was it where they discovered this?

 

[Paulgreer]

:shakehead:
Here we go again. A clinical study...and people are going to come in and go "Ya...it was probably higher than what they reported."

Also, just because you say 2+2=4 doesn't make it true...wut?

Hahahha, and I bet you think that your Allopregnanolone levels are normal as well. Do you not know what damage that 5AR2 inhibition, and the retardation of vital neurosteroids in your brain, and CNS are going to cause long term? This drug has only been prescribed, and evaluated for Androgenetic Alopecia for the past 15 years; and even more damning is the fact that research scientists have only discovered that Finasteride inhibit's neurosteroids recently- and that's not even to mention the fact that Finasteride also retards the recently discovered 5AR3 Isoenzyme! what happens when your body's natural defense against neurodegenertive disorders is hindered for 30 years, or even twenty, or ten?

What does this new 5-ar type 3 enzyme do or what study was it where they discovered this?

Well, basically the chemicals that 5AR convert in the brain and CNS are vital for optimum neurological function. Have you ever heard of nootropics (smart drugs)? One thing that 90% of them have in commom is that they increase allopregnanolone, in contrast Finasterde decreases this neurosteroid (as well as GABA receptor function, but that's a whole other story). What does that tell you?

None of the physicians that I work with take finasteride, primarily because they are involved in research and they are much more abreast with the current research than typical family care MD's, the more we are learning about Finasteride the darker the outcome looks for long term users of the drug. unfortuantely, many arm chair scientists (like the ones on this forum) think that they have it all figured out, and often cite the antiquated FDA studies from a decade ago or more...

 

[BritishUser]

This study in question was published at the end of 2011. Also, finasteride 5 mg has been in use for 20 years for Prostate conditions.

I'm not aware of any evidence that there are increased rates of degenerative disorders among this group of people, mainly older males who would therefore be naturally more prone to such conditions, linked to their use of the medication.

 

[LostHope]

I notice people who warn others of the possible long term evils of finasteride, often seem happy to take or use untested experimental concoctions as an alternative.

A little bit of hypocrisy there.

Here's a prettty well known fact, topical treatments are always less systemically active than internal drugs, so it's a far cry to act as if those who use experimental topicals are risking the same thing.

You seem to ignore one additional important fact. In order to get some kind of effect the guys use huge amounts of RU typ. ~ 100mg/d. In the private forums they did measurements and got ~ 2-4% systemic absorption with alcoholic vehicle. That means ~ 2-4 mg of a very potent antiandrogen in your system.
Compare that to 1mg finasteride via the digestive tract ( stomach acid... ). The systemic load for finasteride will be in the micro gramm range, that's much much less!!!
Please take that into consideration....

 

[abcdefg]

Alright. I think the reason a lot of men use propecia is just because its the only option still. Maybe some of those scientists should come up with a better way to inhibit androgens without changing 5-ar 2 then no one would need to be taking it. Its like saying cancer drugs are not very good I mean lets see you or some company come up with something better anyone can talk about it

 

[Man in Space]

This study in question was published at the end of 2011. Also, finasteride 5 mg has been in use for 20 years for Prostate conditions.

I'm not aware of any evidence that there are increased rates of degenerative disorders among this group of people, mainly older males who would therefore be naturally more prone to such conditions, linked to their use of the medication.

PaulGreer or maybe Enden if you have been following this thread, or anyone really, what do you have to say about this point? Do you know of any reports of men using 5mg for the prostate having experienced increased rates of degenerative disorders?

Ive been on finasteride for a year and thought I was hunkey dory as Ive not had any discernable side effects, but reading the effect on allopregnanolone is pretty concerning