Steroids - WIll this work

docj077

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global said:
Harie said:
docj077 said:
But, if he wants the risks, then here they are:

liver toxicity
testicular atrophy
male infertility
masculinization of women
breast enlargement in males
short stature in children,
adverse effects on blood lipid levels
potential to increase the risk of heart attack and stroke.

OMG! There are risks with anything you put into your body.

Asprin side effects:

possible allergic reactions (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
black, bloody, or tarry stools;
nausea, vomiting, or abdominal pain;
uncontrolled fever;
blood in the urine or vomit;
decreased hearing or ringing in the ears;
seizures; or
dizziness, confusion, or hallucinations

You had better start refusing to answer people's questions that have taken asprin. It's bad for you.

Tylenol:

Possible allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
liver damage (yellowing of the skin or eyes, nausea, abdominal pain or discomfort, unusual bleeding or bruising, severe fatigue);
blood problems (easy or unusual bleeding or bruising).

Tylenol is bad for you. Better refuse to answer their questions too. It even has a side effect that improper steroid use can have.

Exactly, do you know how many people die each year in the United States from taking aspirin? Over 7000.

I find it truly amazing that so many people are willing to risk death and hospitalization just to get rid of a headache, what kind of drug abusers are they?

You'd find it nearly impossible to find even one truely confirmed death from steroid use where there wasn't a pre-existing complicating condition.

You guys both have to be careful. With steroids, those side effects are typically seen in every patient that uses them. With Tylenol, that is not true at all.

As for the aspirin comment, that's just stupid. People that die from taking aspirin either have an aspirin allergy or they have an underlying disease process like the development of Reye's Syndrome with influenza or they already have cardiovascular disease. Neither of you can see the facts, because I don't think you know what you're looking for.

You'll also find it hard to find a death due to anything without a pre-existed medical condition unless the death is from trauma.
 

global

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docj077 said:
global said:
Harie said:
docj077 said:
But, if he wants the risks, then here they are:

liver toxicity
testicular atrophy
male infertility
masculinization of women
breast enlargement in males
short stature in children,
adverse effects on blood lipid levels
potential to increase the risk of heart attack and stroke.

OMG! There are risks with anything you put into your body.

Asprin side effects:

possible allergic reactions (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
black, bloody, or tarry stools;
nausea, vomiting, or abdominal pain;
uncontrolled fever;
blood in the urine or vomit;
decreased hearing or ringing in the ears;
seizures; or
dizziness, confusion, or hallucinations

You had better start refusing to answer people's questions that have taken asprin. It's bad for you.

Tylenol:

Possible allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
liver damage (yellowing of the skin or eyes, nausea, abdominal pain or discomfort, unusual bleeding or bruising, severe fatigue);
blood problems (easy or unusual bleeding or bruising).

Tylenol is bad for you. Better refuse to answer their questions too. It even has a side effect that improper steroid use can have.

Exactly, do you know how many people die each year in the United States from taking aspirin? Over 7000.

I find it truly amazing that so many people are willing to risk death and hospitalization just to get rid of a headache, what kind of drug abusers are they?

You'd find it nearly impossible to find even one truely confirmed death from steroid use where there wasn't a pre-existing complicating condition.

You guys both have to be careful. With steroids, those side effects are typically seen in every patient that uses them. With Tylenol, that is not true at all.

As for the aspirin comment, that's just stupid. People that die from taking aspirin either have an aspirin allergy or they have an underlying disease process like the development of Reye's Syndrome with influenza or they already have cardiovascular disease. Neither of you can see the facts, because I don't think you know what you're looking for.

You'll also find it hard to find a death due to anything without a pre-existed medical condition unless the death is from trauma.

You really are an idiot.

I'm starting to believe you are not really a doctor at all. Your previous comments about how the National Health Service works in the United Kingdom are pure fantasy. I'm not even going to bother refuting it because it is so ridiculous.

I found a lump in my calcaneal tendon a couple of weeks ago. I rang the doctor the next morning and got an appointment to see him 2 hours later. He sent me to get an X ray of my foot and I went to the hospital the same day and had the X ray done there and then. The picture you have painted is entirely false.

You're comments above about steroid side effects just demonstrate further evidence that you have no serious medical knowledge of side effects of steroids.

Those side effects are NOT seen in every person who takes steroids. And in any case steroids are not all the same, there are considerable variations in possible effects they could have.

Even some of the adverse effects you cite are of doubtful pathogenicity. For example while steroids do cause adverse effects on the HDL/LDL ratio, short term fluctuations in lipids have never been shown to contribute to CAD, only long term changes, and only in sedentary men.
 

Balding_1

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docj077 said:
Balding_1 said:
Are you saying that the way the american system is heading it will be better than the British system?

The american medical system has been found lagging behind Canada, and most European nations for a long time now. Americans spend more money on health care than any other country but ranked 37 out of 191 in the WHO 2000 report. Britain ranked 18th and spends only 6% of the GDP with Universal Care to all people. Why should americans feel lucky again?

I'm not even british but I have learned enough in school to realize that the British have an amazing health care system that should be emulated as much as possible. To say otherwise displays yet more arrogance and an unwillingness to learn of other medical systems.

American doctors are tired of practicing second class medicine and dealing with the government and insurance companies. The following link describes the current direction of the American medical system and it is widely supported by every physician that I've discussed it with:

http://www.acponline.org/journals/news/ ... _model.htm

No government influence, no need for a business office as patients will have to bill their own insurance, doctors can practice first class medicine, and physicians will ask for money up front for services. With enough physicians practicing this system in a clinic, they will have all the necessary technology and influence. With enough physicians practicing this system in the country, insurance companies will be forced to lower their prices as the price of healthcare will once again be less than the cost of insurance and the cost of medications will go down as pts will no longer be able to afford their medications.

As for your comments regarding the American system, they are way off base and prove your ignorance and lack of experience with the system. Americans with money really do receive the best healthcare in the world. They receive the best healthcare, because they have the best insurance and they can pay for all other services and tests. So, a physician is not limited by phone calls, requirements, and pre-approval. It's the best medicine, because it's the least hindered medicine. Again, the government and the insurance companies make it this way...not physicians. Blame your congressman for the poor healthcare you receive. A physician can only do so much.

As for your comments regarding the British system...no. Pure and simple...no. You really have no idea how that system works. I've talked with about a dozen physicians that have gone to that country with a few doing rotations or residency years over there, as well. I've also researched it for years. As a patient, you have to wake up early in the morning, go to the clinic and stand in line as there are no appointments, and simply pray that you will be seen that day. Unfortunately, there are people doing triage, so the physicians will typically see only the easiest of patients every day, because most of them are paid by the number of patients they see in a day and not by the difficutly of diagnosis. So, a doctor will get there at eight or nine in the morning, see as many patients as possible in a four hour period, and then head home. This leaves all the diabetics and other patients with complicated medical problems with two choices: Go to the emergency room or come back another day. Coming back another day does not guarantee service. Remember this fact.

So, one day you go to the clinic early in the morning and stand in line. You have a cough, night sweats, and some difficulty breathing. You don't get in the first day, but you came back for a few days and eventually you get in to see a doctor after you miraculously make it through triage. They do a chest x-ray and find a mass in your left lung. They biopsy it and discover that it's a small cell carcinoma secondary to the 30+ years of smoking that you've done. Your likely only option will be surgery followed by chemotherapy. So, you need to see a surgeon and an oncologist. However, in Britain, your typical wait to see a surgeon or an oncologist and be months and even up to a year. So, while you're waiting to see a medical professional, your lung cancer grows, metastasizes, and eventually you pass away due to complications from the metastasis. If for some reason you're over the age of 75, once you gain access to a hospital, then you'll be doomed to hear your primary physician utter the words, "what are you doing? At his age, we don't bother."

So, tell me again how that system is better than ours?

In America, if you go to your general practitioner with the above symptoms, you'll not be turned away for any reason, you'll receive a chest x-ray that very day, you'll receive a CT scan the next day, you'll be in touch with a surgeon and an oncologist within the week, and you'll have your surgery done and be on chemotherapy within the month. And what is even better is that many hospitals will either end up eating all that debt that you'll accrue if you're poor or they'll set you up with a payment program or another service that offers grants to help you pay. While getting your chemotherapy, you'll receive the best chemotherapy agents in the world, in the cleanest facilities in the world, from the best trained oncologists and surgeons in the world. If any step of this process fails, it's not because your physician has failed you. It's because your insurance company and your government have failed you. Your insurance company wants you to die and your government has prevented your insurance company from embracing that ideal.


You all need to do some serious reading when it comes to current medical theory with regards to future direction, finances, and the quality of medical care in the world. Unless you're a part of the system, you really have no idea how it functions.



Doctor, you're really making an *** of your self. As for my comments on the american system they are backed up by a study completed by the World Health Oganization. But of course you're right and they are wrong.

That's great that Americans with money get the best health care in the world. Whats sad is that you seem to not care about the millions that cannot afford that same treatment because of their income status. What a great doctor you will be.
 

docj077

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global said:
You really are an idiot.

I'm starting to believe you are not really a doctor at all. Your previous comments about how the National Health Service works in the United Kingdom are pure fantasy. I'm not even going to bother refuting it because it is so ridiculous.

I found a lump in my calcaneal tendon a couple of weeks ago. I rang the doctor the next morning and got an appointment to see him 2 hours later. He sent me to get an X ray of my foot and I went to the hospital the same day and had the X ray done there and then. The picture you have painted is entirely false.
.

You really didn't read what I had to say, did you? Further proof that you take what I say out of context and only your opinion to heart. I will say it again, I KNOW PHYSICIANS THAT HAVE WORKED IN YOUR COUNTRY!!! Can't you get that through your head? They have worked in your system and know all its faults. Have you worked in that system as a physician? Do you have private insurance? Do you even know if you have private insurance? That system is totally seperate from the public health system in Britain. You certainly must be aware of that fact.

The quality of care you receive and how fast you can get in to receive that care is directly determined by the nature of your illness in that country. A lump on your tendon is not a difficult diagnosis and a simple x-ray does not take much time. Thus, you'd be one of the first people to see a physician. Unfortunately, because you made your appointment, it is quite likely that a diabetic or a stroke patient didn't get to see a physician that day.

global said:
You're comments above about steroid side effects just demonstrate further evidence that you have no serious medical knowledge of side effects of steroids.

Those side effects are NOT seen in every person who takes steroids. And in any case steroids are not all the same, there are considerable variations in possible effects they could have.

Even some of the adverse effects you cite are of doubtful pathogenicity. For example while steroids do cause adverse effects on the HDL/LDL ratio, short term fluctuations in lipids have never been shown to contribute to CAD, only long term changes, and only in sedentary men.

Yes, the use of steriods (whether it be long term or short term stacking) will cause side effects in ALL patients. I'll say it again...ALL PATIENTS. You can not take hormones without negatively inhibiting hormone release from the pituitary. It doesn't matter what you think, that's a side effect and unless you have a reason to be doing it, then it's completely unhealthy.

Also, the risk of CAD disease is increased in all men and not just because of the LDL/HDL fluctuations. It's because steroid use is shown to cause hypertension in steroid users, as well as, cause an increase in triglyceride levels with even short term use. Are you aware of how much aerobic exercise you have to do to counteract this phenomenon? It's a lot and it has to be done with even short term steroid use.

I'm not even going to go into how cycling and stacking affect the liver. You should know that since you appear to be a genius. Even short term steroid use affects the liver...a lot.

It's not my fault if men that use steroids are either so in love with themselves or so uncomfortable with themselves that they are willing to abuse drugs to get what they want. They are nothing more than a common junkie in terms of the ideal that surrounds their drug abuse.

Steroids are schedule III for a reason. Some other drugs that are schedule III include ketamine, LSD, and chlorphentermine. Sounds to me like steroid abusers will be in good company with those that use the above drugs.
 

docj077

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Balding_1 said:
Doctor, you're really making an *** of your self. As for my comments on the american system they are backed up by a study completed by the World Health Oganization. But of course you're right and they are wrong.

That's great that Americans with money get the best health care in the world. Whats sad is that you seem to not care about the millions that cannot afford that same treatment because of their income status. What a great doctor you will be.

How? By telling it how it really is? By saying how that system works from the inside? The WHO has no real say in how the American system works. They typically focus only on the medicine that is practiced in America's bigger cities. Unfortunately, that's not where America has its best physicians.

As for the underlined comment....

It's ridiculous statements like that make me question the integrity and state of mind of people that post in this forum. Why? Because, I never said that I was for or against either ideal. I know that the direction the current system is going is wrong. Unfortunately, the government and the insurance companies have ruined it for everyone. Not just patients, but for physicians, as well. When you're getting reimbursed 19 cents on the dollar, you'll probably be wanting some change, as well. Doctors have to charge so much for an office visit, because they'll either only receive 19 cents or a little more for every dollar they charge from the insurance companies or they'll receive nothing at all as many patients have bills that run in the thousands. Tell me, how is that fair to people with families? Doctors are people, too. They aren't your personal medical servant. They shouldn't be. When was the last time that you basically threw away 15 years of your life by dedicating it to a noble cause only to find that when you get out you owe $200,000, your wife has likely divorced you( because you're never there), and your whole life is consumed by a hospital?

You two keep arguing with me about this, but you can't win. Neither of you have enough experience with the system to even form a credible opinion...even if you are taking your information from a completely biased WHO study.
 

michael barry

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Ive been considered "built" for 20 years. Ive never used a steroid. Just made sure I ate a decent amount of protien, and worked out.


YOU DONT NEED ROIDS' to be pretty built up, with nice definition. You only need roids if you want to look like a damned freak.

Men who take steroids are either too lazy to work out consistently 12 months out of the year.....................

or

................they are those men with a "reverse" anorexia. No matter how built they get, its not enough.




I have always deeply suspcted that many men are trying to unconsciously "make" their frame's grow larger with excessive training and excessive muscularity. You cant make your bone structure expand. Your wrists, ankles, and bone-size are genetically predetermined. You can add some muscle mass, you can cut-up that mass....................................................but you AINT gonna morph into a man who is five inches taller and twice as wide as you are. Men who take roid's often have this "little man's complex" and are attempting to literally grow beyond common sense. Ive seen alot of short men with this mental disorder. If they only realized that there is a point in which you are too stocky, and women think you look juvenile.


Think about all the men you have seen at gyms who have to walk with their toes pointed outwards with an awkward gait and their arms practically akimbo all the time. They look like a parody of the human form. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... image&cd=2

That above is a picture of Steve Reeves, and is about what men should shoot for. Its what women find attractive also. Built, not engorged.

This, http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bigbeachsm.jpg, is f*****g ridiculous. It makes you look ridiculous to females too. It takes steroids to get there. It also takes enormous amounts of protien that is a gastrointestinal comedy (ever lived with a bodybuilder? they are flatulent all the damned time from the protien shakes, etc.). Its cancerous over the long haul in all probability, it stresses the bones, and shoots hormone levels up to un-natural highs for years at a time.

How many OLD bodybuilders do you know? Before any of you smart asses tell me about that guy or two in his seventies.......................let me define OLD. Nineties, cenetarians. Now how many former pro-footballers and bodybuilders mysteriously die in their fifities? Been quite a few of em'.

It aint worth it guys.



Most all bodybuilders eventually have hairloss problems also, as thier T-levels get very high. Remember, experiments confirm that just T and DHT added in excessive amounts to even WREATH HAIR will make it flip its response to androgen. If you give a man enough testosterone, all his hair can become sensitive to androgens. Tons of balding bodybuilders out there. Just because your hair isn't going in your twenties, does not mean it never will.


A great example of a guy who had pretty good hair into his thirties, but went as bald as a cueball in his forties and fifties is rocker Pete Townshead of the Who. He had pretty decent hair as late as 1982 in his late thirties. He was extremely bald by the mid-nineties.
 

Johnny24601

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re:

What role do doctors play in this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,255758,00.html

My point is not to degrade all doctors but to point out that the medical community is so far from perfect and doctors need to be held to the highest standards. Doctor makes it sound like American doctors are strictly victims of a poor system, which could be partially true, but I find it disingenuous that a doctor can criticize the existing medical system without addressing the flaws within your own industry. Can we expect doctors to be perfect, no, but don't tell me that doctors are not abusing their prescription authority and/or their relationships with insurers and drug manufacturers. Like most of us, doctors are in business to make money and even doctors are susceptible to greed!
Steroids may not be too bad to those who know how to use them correctly, but IMO I will never deem someone as mentally and/or physically healthy if they are using steroids for a non medical issue.
 

trapsource

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Michael barry, dont be an idiot. How can you judge why people take roids? Only a fool would lump everyone into the same category. Alot of roid users look like freaks, but some take them because their genetics will onlt take them so far. The people like you with " ive never done steroi9ds" comment are usually the guys who think they are buiilt , but are barely average, They compare themselves to a really out of shape person and consider themselves built.
The people who do steroids once in a blue moon arent lazy, but like anything a lot are. They look at guys lijke your self and chuckle about your build. You will always be satisfied with average and thats it. Yes, abuse will cause death, but what do you care? Will you go to all the funerals of the people who took them? If a guy wants to take the chance to better himself theres nothing wrong with that. If he ruins his liver, so be it. I dont judge people if they take it or not and neither should you.
And the next time you call guys lazy and have" little mans complex" go to your local golds gym and voice your opinion. Dont be a chicken sh*t and insult people from the safety of your computer.
 

FabioM

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This thread is fecked up

To Michael Barry:

There are also millions of bald people that are not bodybuilders...what´s your point?

And you wont be a freak if you use steroids...there are people that only use them once in a blue moon and have to do a big effort if they wont to grow because steroids alone will do you nothing, only food and training will.

CHeck out this trailer: http://www.repetrope.com/men/products/video.asp?ProductID=18001&VidClipID=5358&Size=lg

Some of those guys are just awesome and don´t look like freaks...check out Layne Norton, he´s natural.

You migh think i´m defending the use of steroids which i´m not...i just think some myths need to be cleared up in relation to the use of steroids.
 

trapsource

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Good points. I dont defend the use either, and most people that do roids work alot harder than those who dont. Its not fair for a guy who has perfect genetics to heckle someone that does them who has crap genetics. Liposuction, gastrial bypass surgery, you want to talk lazy??? Like I said before , these people are applauded for surgeries but to bust your *** for 10 years and take the occasional roid is a shortcut. I am 100% positive people who make these comments have no knowlege of roids or even training hard. And why are supplements not considered a shortcut? Because they are legal? Do we all have the money to buy 20 suppliments every month? Is that not unfair?
 

FabioM

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Yeah it´s incredible how a bodybuilder is steryotyped and people that do plastic surgery, liposuctions etc etc aren´t.

It gets on my nerves, that´s why i don´t talk about bodybuilding with people that never trained...for what? To be looked down? Feck them.

Btw,i started training when i was 17 years old and i waasn´t losing hair but i had a goal in my mind when i joined a gym for the 1st time. I still haven´t got till that objective and there´s still a long way to go.
I´m balding but that´s not going to stop me getting there...when i get there i will be bald but still people will say i took roids to get there even when it never passed through my head to be bald one day when i started working out.

I admit i almost took steroids but something was lacking in my diet...with experience i tweaked it and last year i did a great bulk and worked out harder than ever. I got women turning their heads and others horning from their cars, it was a fecking great feeling.

I just proved i can do that again and grow like a weed...no need for steroids...just hard work.

Maybe i will take steroids some day to get a bit far, but i will still be stereotyped even if i have a good professional career and have plenty of interests like many other people. It´s just stupid but that´s the way it is...i don´t care.
 

michael barry

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Talking to acolytes of steroids is always ridiculous.

They act as if making steroids hard to obtain or illegal would be like taking their cinderella slipper away and that they would shrivel up to nothing.

You can have high enough testosterone from pumping iron, working out (how many kneebends can you do at once? I can do over 200 all the way to the floor, how many pull-ups?, etc?) and eating a balanced healthy diet with enough protien, and vitamins, and good carbohydrates.


You wont shrivel up to nothing if you get off "the juice". I used to live with a bodybuilder who took dinabol and winstrol. He had big mood swings, got super frustrated when he missed a training day (he worked out five days a week to my four), missed a cardio session (everyday for him). He was OBSESSED with his body. He, with great hair genetics, even shed some hair also.........................even with just andro back when it was legal.


Looking back near 40 now, I wish I'd have worked out LESS not MORE. You can be "pretty built" with just three days a week training. Dorian Yates showed the whole world that you can get gigantic by training a muscle just once every seven damned days. Steroid mongers want to get big beyond belief. Its not worth it. Women think you look ridiculous, you look silly in clothes (I have a second cousin who got so big he had to have his blue jeans "made" to fit him because his thighs got so out of proportion to his body).

Training to super low body fat will also age your face as you need some fat there. Extremely high T-levels will (unless you take finasteride) lead to earlier baldness if you have the genetics for it.


I get a kick of how roid-mongers act as if the mere SUGGESTION that roid-laws be ENFORCED would be like making Superman carry around kryptonite. They have that "mental disease" Ive discussed. Rather than merely be "pretty built" instead of "ridiculous" they would rather be shot dead on the spot. It must be some sort of hyper-narcicissitic personality disorder or maybe they got picked on when they were kids. I'll never understand it..........................................or

perhaps it just doing roids for long periods of time make their brain chemistry dependent on having super high levels of testosterone and they get depressed when they get off "the juice" or something. I do know this from seeing it however.........................your dermal tissues age with testosterone. Your face will age prematurely, your hair will age prematurely, your body hair will grey faster, and you will probably live a shorter life.


Plus they are illegal. What part of illegal dont you guys understand? When you look back at your youth in your forties and fifties, I promise you that "gee, I wished I'd have gotten to the gym more" will not be something that you say to yourself. You might have said "gee, I wished I'd have bought some home work out equipment so I could have gotten my time devoted to my physique down to perhaps forty minutes a day" or some such. IF you cant tell, I had my "big" phase back in my twenties when I worked out a great deal. I did the martial arts thing for a few years too. Those years flew by because I was always working on getting bigger or learning how to fight better............................for what? Some ***-whipping contest that I never entered? So my friends would be a little afraid of me?

Roid's are best used under a docs supervision to rehab injuries or for older people who need them. Just so you can look "pretty" (which most people dont think is pretty) is something you'll regret.
 

michael barry

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By the way,


for you steroid lovers..............................


Here are some pics you might enjoy that show just how bad extra testosteron will age your dermal tissues......
http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200509 ... _102.jhtml

Those are two FEMALE TWINS in the picture above. One wants to be a man and takes testosterone (she's the one with the beard guys). Now, take a close look at her face, http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200509 ... _103.jhtml.

Take that photo and right click it............and hit "set as background" so it will occupy your entire computer screen when you sign off. Look hard. See the neck lines? the wrinkles around the eyes. The thinned hair as opposed to her sisters?

The other gal in the Ophrah show went NW3-4 bald with roids, but her sister of course kept her hair. They are both on plain ol' testosterone, nothing more, http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200509 ... _109.jhtml
You wouldn't guess those were twins would you.




Here is a pic of Buck Angel, who used to not only be a woman, but a very pretty woman (female model)
Here she is before and after, http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

Here she is as a female alone, http://ringmybell.tv/BuckBefore.jpg


Note--------------------------none of the three females you have seen in these pics have had sexual reassignment surgery. They dont have male genitlia. They have just recieved testosterone injections.



One final note on roids. I used to know a guy by association who was on them pretty bad. He was short (Im a tad under six feet, and he must have been five inches or more shorter than me), and wrestled some in a minor league association. He went profoundly bald and over the years (I knew him through a friend, and dont even recall his name) his face aged terribley. He wasn't a sun tan fanatic either. He just looked really old, and he was only five or six years older than me. He had the face of a damn near forty-five year old man (greying beard) when he was in his mid thirties, plus he was very bald by that time. He was pumped up, and very built...................................but nobody gave a sh*t. Women just thought he was an ugly little guy with muscles and treated him like a also-ran. He had a bad temper, and Ive been told has had a couple of run-ins with the law (bar fights). What a life to have led.............
 

trapsource

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You are taking a small percentage of the roid heads and suggesting everyone is using them to get huge. Thats the same thing as saying if you every tried pot you are a drug addict. Fabio wants to work his *** off to be the best he can be, and if a little jice helps him every two or three years to get a little extra cut, whats wrong with that? Believe me, riods are used for alot more than building muscle. Illegal? Who makes them? joe blow in his bathtub or the drug companies? Why are they made then? oh ok for medical purposes. Which is fine but the legallities are not an issue here. Im sure you never drank underage, smoked pot, made an illegal uturn or anything like that. Welcome Ward Clever to the group.
Fabio, doing it natural is the greatest thing you can do, but dont even listen to these averge males who think a "pretty built" physique is all you need. Ive worked hard to be buikt like I am and beileve me, the females go crazy. Not too big, not too small. Guys like michael barry are the guys that are usually pissed when their women look the other way. And once again, im not talking big freakish guys.
Once again who the f*** cares? I judge a person by their character, not if they take certain drugs. Everyone has their vice. Trying to look phenominal is not a bad thing. The rest of you should check were your girlfriend is, if you have one.
 

odin2007

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Funny thread!!!

What a comical thread!!! Docj077 your are naive and clueless (and some others out there)...I'm embarrassed for you if you actually have a PHD.

Guys, why bother to even have a reasonable discussion with him.

Here's a little video for you "Doctor"!! It sums things up pretty well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2754168929523377644&q=real+sports+steroids

How many times have you seen FDA approved drugs pushed by Dr.'s that get pulled because of great harm and death. Millions of people who take steriods every year are dropping like flies!!...what an epidemic!!! There's a higher risk in dying in a car accident!!! The naive american general public is ignorant and brainwashable!!

There isn't much more to say or discuss about this but educated yourself!!!!!
 

michael barry

Senior Member
Reaction score
12
Im going to post these pics one more time, to make sure they get looked at. Steroids (male hormones) and facial agening. I'll leave the thread alone henceforth because if you want to use steroids, go for it. I only like to see people fully informed before they make a choice.


Here are pics of facial ageing with testosterone injects in females,


Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject:

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Here are some pics you might enjoy that show just how bad extra testosteron will age your dermal tissues......
http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200509 ... _102.jhtml

Those are two FEMALE TWINS in the picture above. One wants to be a man and takes testosterone (she's the one with the beard guys). Now, take a close look at her face, http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200509 ... _103.jhtml.

Take that photo and right click it............and hit "set as background" so it will occupy your entire computer screen when you sign off. Look hard. See the neck lines? the wrinkles around the eyes. The thinned hair as opposed to her sisters?

The other gal in the Ophrah show went NW3-4 bald with roids, but her sister of course kept her hair. They are both on plain ol' testosterone, nothing more, http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200509 ... _109.jhtml
You wouldn't guess those were twins would you.




Here is a pic of Buck Angel, who used to not only be a woman, but a very pretty woman (female model)
Here she is before and after, http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

Here she is as a female alone, http://ringmybell.tv/BuckBefore.jpg


Note--------------------------none of the three females you have seen in these pics have had sexual reassignment surgery. They dont have male genitlia. They have just recieved testosterone injections.
 
G

Guest

Guest
michael barry,

what do you think of the claims of some on here that working out naturally(without steroids or supplements), just pumping iron, 3-5 times a week for an hour, say, will increase hair loss. any truth to that?
 

docj077

Senior Member
Reaction score
1
Re: Funny thread!!!

odin2007 said:
What a comical thread!!! Docj077 your are naive and clueless (and some others out there)...I'm embarrassed for you if you actually have a PHD.

Guys, why bother to even have a reasonable discussion with him.

Here's a little video for you "Doctor"!! It sums things up pretty well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2754168929523377644&q=real+sports+steroids

How many times have you seen FDA approved drugs pushed by Dr.'s that get pulled because of great harm and death. Millions of people who take steriods every year are dropping like flies!!...what an epidemic!!! There's a higher risk in dying in a car accident!!! The naive american general public is ignorant and brainwashable!!

There isn't much more to say or discuss about this but educated yourself!!!!!

<sarcasm> Oh man, you're right. It is hell-arious!!! How could I have missed the Three Stooges-like adventures of my fellow forumites and myself by simply posting facts when everybody else likes posting secondhand information from their favorite bodybuilding website or google, their experiences in a medical system that they've never seen the inside of, or their own personal opinion regarding the pharmaceutical industry when they have no idea how the drug market really works? <sarcasm>

What's even better is that this thread is filled with people that are either abusing drugs or defending those that are abusing drugs. That's a shame, because those people that need to be cut, huge, or whatever aren't doing it because they want to look good. They are doing it, because they NEED to look good. That's the very essence of body dismorphic disorder...a debilitating disorder that can lead to often fatal physiological decisions.

When it comes to using drugs for anything other than what they should be used for, there are three choices:

You abuse the drug, but you're too ignorant to know that it's illegal...you're a criminal.

You abuse the drug and can't stop, because it changes your mental or physical well-being...you're chemically dependent.

You abuse the drug and know you're abusing the drug, but you're unwilling to change...you're crazy.

Which one are you all? Criminal, chemically dependent, or crazy?

I'll let you decide...

As for the underlined and bolded statement...you embody that quite well.

As for this:
"Docj077 your are naive and clueless (and some others out there)...I'm embarrassed for you if you actually have a PHD."

I seem to have forgotten. Where did you do your medical training? What is your Ph.D. in? How much did your degree cost on Ebay? Because, there are a lot of people on the "internets" that might want to know that kind of information.
 
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