Sodium Thiosulfate: A Way To Reset Scalp Calcification?

[HairCook]

I am not a fan of this theory too much but as we know are fibrosis and calcification are a potential threat for regrowing hair which was lost long time ago (and even hair transplantations), I checked for potent and cheap options. Sadly if you google you end up with weak option like magnesium oil or apple cider vinegar which are not even prooven.

While I am very positive that deep wounding and 99% dmso peelings can break up most of this (ofc take care about dht and pgd2 angle to avoid reoccurence) I stumbled upon the following study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/art.34628/pdf

Online further:

"However, the better way of absorption is transdermally with DMSO. Dissolve 1 level teaspoon of STS in 2 teaspoons of water and then add 2 teaspoons of DMSO. Rub this onto the skin once or twice a day, especially over areas of calcification. You may also combine oral intake with transdermal applications."

STS is cheap and easy to get. The before/after x-ray is really impressive, so I thought I should share it here.
I havent done it myself and gotta check safety but it looks so far alright.

If someone tried it already or has experience with the substance it would be great if you shared it here.

 

[talesofdahustle]

How is it going for you, is the scalp more loose? and do you have source for supplier you bought from?

 

[inmyhead]

How is it going for you, is the scalp more loose? and do you have source for supplier you bought from?

What kind of question is that? he clearly stated that he hasn't done that himself

 

[TheHawk]

I may try this.


I’m wounding and had great results but now it’s stagnant after a few months.

 

[Armando Jose]

great result in mice
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09168451.2018.1518705

 

[dietcoke1987]

calcium disodium edta 600-800mg orally daily with a albion multi mineral will be far more effective and safer for removing calcification. According to experts for total body removal of calcification in soft tissue with that dosage of EDTA it takes about 9 months. I've been on it for 8 years and dermarolling for almost a year now so I know I don't have calcification. Maybe it's helped, but never stopped or reversed the hairloss.

I've tried STS orally off and on for years since it's supposed to be healthy for cleaning out the gut once and awhile with some vitamin C mixed with it. Let me tell you that you'll have some of the worst and by far the most horrendous smelling gas you could ever fathom. So keep that in mind with STS. I've never tried it topically and as Armando has pointed out it may have some benefits of it's own. But I personally really don't think they are related to it's chelating effects on calcification of tissue. Perhaps it chelating free iron, calcium or something else in the local area however is giving the benefits though.

The study Armando shared showed it's most effective at 10% solution of STS together with minoxidil. So maybe just add it to a minoxidil topical? I wonder if a person could get to a 10% solution though in one...

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1080/09168451.2018.1518705

 

[TheHawk]

calcium disodium edta 600-800mg orally daily with a albion multi mineral will be far more effective and safer for removing calcification. According to experts for total body removal of calcification in soft tissue with that dosage of EDTA it takes about 9 months. I've been on it for 8 years and dermarolling for almost a year now so I know I don't have calcification. Maybe it's helped, but never stopped or reversed the hairloss.

I've tried STS orally off and on for years since it's supposed to be healthy for cleaning out the gut once and awhile with some vitamin C mixed with it. Let me tell you that you'll have some of the worst and by far the most horrendous smelling gas you could ever fathom. So keep that in mind with STS. I've never tried it topically and as Armando has pointed out it may have some benefits of it's own. But I personally really don't think they are related to it's chelating effects on calcification of tissue. Perhaps it chelating free iron, calcium or something else in the local area however is giving the benefits though.

The study Armando shared showed it's most effective at 10% solution of STS together with minoxidil. So maybe just add it to a minoxidil topical? I wonder if a person could get to a 10% solution though in one...

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1080/09168451.2018.1518705

Is the albion multi mineral for edta absorption? How does it relate

 

[dietcoke1987]

Is the albion multi mineral for edta absorption? How does it relate

No, EDTA+Omega3 is meant to be taken daily for life for all of it's cardio benefits. EDTA for long term use requires a good form multi mineral to be taken daily. It will actually enhance the utilization of the minerals too. Albion multi mineral is a good, solo stand alone multi mineral that's also very cheap. Just making it easy for people.

 

[jumpingjackgazz]

@HairCook, So do you plan to test it ?
I'm on another regimen currently....

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

Calcification and fibrosis are not causetive they are correlatives. The fact that dht down regulates hair growth genes and ripp off arrector pilli muscles indicates that reducing calcifications won't grow hairs. But overall for health it is good to reduce calcification.

 

[jumpingjackgazz]

@Hairook, Have you checked safety of STS vs DMSO ?
I'm really interest in this thread...

 

[TheHawk]

Calcification and fibrosis are not causetive they are correlatives. The fact that dht down regulates hair growth genes and ripp off arrector pilli muscles indicates that reducing calcifications won't grow hairs. But overall for health it is good to reduce calcification.

But calcification in your scalp tissue(Apidose tissue, which actually counteracts DHT’s affects in the scalp), will definitely prevent hair regrowth.

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

Up we need Go deeper in this

 

[Seuxin]

Still this old "Calcification theory"...Oh, just do massages......or use the magnesium oil , ha, ha ha....

 

[Poppyburner]

I don't know how authoritative this lengthy essay is but:

'[Last Updated January 17, 2020]

The Ultimate Hair Loss Flowchart: Why We Lose Our Hair​

[...]
It’s Easy To Prevent Calcification. It’s Hard To Reverse It.

It’s much easier to prevent calcification and fibrosis than it is to reverse these conditions.

For instance, the right diet can significantly stop the development of calcification, but diet rarely reverses calcification. This is why, in most cases, dietary changes don’t result in significant hair regrowth. So the next time you see an ad claiming “one simple diet trick” can regrow hair, don’t buy into it.

Final Takeaways​

Many people try to make hair loss sound like a “one cause, one solution” problem – but this just isn’t reality.

Calcification and fibrosis are the two biggest hurdles to hair recovery.

Drugs like Finasteride decrease scalp DHT, but they do little to reverse any of the calcification and fibrosis already present in our scalps. As a result, most hair loss drugs only slow or arrest hair loss. They don’t necessarily regrow any hair.'

A Hair Loss Flowchart: Why We Lose Our Hair (Hypothesis)

What causes hair loss? This master flowchart traces the causes of hair loss to its roots. A systematic, scientific approach to explaining hair loss, and why drugs like Finasteride and Minoxidil don't regrow much hair.

perfecthairhealth.com

 

[polishkickbuttowski]

Be careful with this one. While I was reading this thread I was thinking no way this totally reverses calcification but doesn't affect bones at all. https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(17)31040-X/fulltext
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18818688/ "It also lowered bone strength in the treated animals compared to their normal controls."

 

[NorwoodGuardian]

I don't know how authoritative this lengthy essay is but:

'[Last Updated January 17, 2020]

The Ultimate Hair Loss Flowchart: Why We Lose Our Hair​

[...]
It’s Easy To Prevent Calcification. It’s Hard To Reverse It.

It’s much easier to prevent calcification and fibrosis than it is to reverse these conditions.

For instance, the right diet can significantly stop the development of calcification, but diet rarely reverses calcification. This is why, in most cases, dietary changes don’t result in significant hair regrowth. So the next time you see an ad claiming “one simple diet trick” can regrow hair, don’t buy into it.

Final Takeaways​

Many people try to make hair loss sound like a “one cause, one solution” problem – but this just isn’t reality.

Calcification and fibrosis are the two biggest hurdles to hair recovery.

Drugs like Finasteride decrease scalp DHT, but they do little to reverse any of the calcification and fibrosis already present in our scalps. As a result, most hair loss drugs only slow or arrest hair loss. They don’t necessarily regrow any hair.'

A Hair Loss Flowchart: Why We Lose Our Hair (Hypothesis)

What causes hair loss? This master flowchart traces the causes of hair loss to its roots. A systematic, scientific approach to explaining hair loss, and why drugs like Finasteride and Minoxidil don't regrow much hair.

perfecthairhealth.com

Needling helps.

 

[Poppyburner]

Be careful with this one. While I was reading this thread I was thinking no way this totally reverses calcification but doesn't affect bones at all. https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(17)31040-X/fulltext
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18818688/ "It also lowered bone strength in the treated animals compared to their normal controls."

Agreed; but neither study applied topically:

'[...] we hypothesize that IVSTS [intravenous sodium thiosulfate] plays a role in abnormal bone density in calciphylaxis patients.'


'Sodium thiosulfate administration
Sodium thiosulfate (Köhler Chemie GmbH, Alsbach, Germany) was diluted 1:3 with normal (0.9%) saline and given i.p. [intraperitoneal injection] three times a week in a dosage derived from STS usage in humans (0.4 g/kg body weight).15,16 STS treatment was started after 2 weeks of adenine diet in the ET group and after 4 weeks in the LT group, resulting in a total treatment duration of 8 and 6 weeks, respectively (Figure 1). NUC animals were also treated with STS for 6 weeks. Control (UC) animals received normal saline i.p.'

Sodium thiosulfate prevents vascular calcifications in uremic rats - PubMed

Accelerated vascular calcification is a severe complication of chronic kidney disease contributing to high morbidity and mortality in patients undergoing renal replacement therapy. Sodium thiosulfate is increasingly used for the treatment of soft tissue calcifications in calciphylaxis...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I find these things quite a worry too:

'So-called “hardening of the arteries” leads to raised blood pressure and ultimately is a significant risk factor for thrombosis and cardiac disease. The hardening process is in fact calcification of the blood vessel tissues with the same mineral form as in bone, a calcium phosphate related to mineral hydroxyapatite.'

Vascular Calcification | Duer Research Group

www.ch.cam.ac.uk

'Side effects may include vomiting, joint pain, mood changes, psychosis, and ringing in the ears.[2]'

Sodium thiosulfate (medical use) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Great; we might go mad with holes in our heads.
Suddenly impotence doesn't seem so bad.

 

[Derelict]

I bought some vitamin k to try for scalp calcification, not sure if it will do anything but it was cheap.

 

[Poppyburner]

'Vitamin K2 may reverse calcification of blood vessels in people with kidney disease.
Dialysis patients given menaquinone-7 showed large reductions in calcium deposits in the blood vessels, a major mortality risk factor in advanced kidney disease.'

Vitamin K2 may reverse calcification of blood vessels in people with kidney disease

Four-week supplementation with vitamin K2 MK-7 (menaquinone-7) significantly improves vascular calcification (VC), according to a new study published in BMC Nephrology.

www.nutraingredients.com

'A study published in 2007 tested vitamin K1 and the MK-4 form of vitamin K2 on rats.

In the groups receiving high-dose vitamin K1 or K2 (MK-4), not only was there no further arterial calcium accumulation, there was a 37% reduction of previously accumulated arterial calcification after six weeks. After 12 weeks, there was a 53% reduction in accumulated arterial calcium deposits. The groups receiving the high-dose vitamin K1 and K2 also showed a reversal in carotid artery stiffness. This study provided intriguing evidence that vascular calcification may be reversible by high vitamin K intake.'

Vitamin K And Vascular Calcification - Life Extension

Arterial stiffness increases risk of cardiovascular disorders and dementia. A clinical trial using long-acting vitamin K2 showed significant reductions of arterial stiffening. This provides a new opportunity to restore more youthful flexibility to aging blood vessels.

www.lifeextension.com