Socks' story - (general thinning, pics included)

[socks]

The topical effects Jayman wants internally just won't happen internally. And if they do occur, they will affect the whole body.

Of course taking a med internally is going to have a systematic effect! I think that goes w/o saying. spironolactone is a proven anti-androgen when taken internally whereas its topical effectiveness is open for debate... I dont have the study off the top of my head but, off of HLH, I had a study that showed, in women, flutamide is not statistically more effective in slowing/halting hairloss (they were at par with one another).

..but flutamide only works systemically, not locally.

You can use flutamide topically but the problem is it gets absorbed systematically... Which sort of defeats the purpose of using a topical (least for some).

I think oral spironolactone is used for lowering testosterone production, though not sure.

spironolactone does lower testosterone production of the adrenal glands in addition to blocking AR sites.

If you can lower your testosterone enough to affect hair loss, good luck building muscle.

To my knowledge, spironolactone cannot reduce testosterone to the level of a biological woman as it doesnt have a potent enough effect (if any at all) on the production of test from the testicles. Some of the guys I talked to on dosages of 100mg + have reported that labs results showed their testosterone production being halved usually resulting in their testosterone levels being on the low 'normal' range for a man... Still far higher then that of any natural women. I dont think spironolactone's effectiveness as a hairloss med is completely related to the lowering of testosterone though.


While spironolactone may have a short half life, I think chronic use of appropriate mg/kg dosages result in adequate blocking of the AR sites.

 

[LookingGood!]

So then you trust the literature out there? The few and far conclusive literature at best?

So what do you do when it pull the sodium out of ur heart and disrupts your sodium/potassium pump that governs heart physiology?

You're rolling the dice now and hitting 7's but what do you do when your luck runs out? Plan B is??

 

[Guest]

I think this guy has OCD. He is a NW1 at best. I think he fails to realize that hair grows in cycles and there are some hairs that go thru the telogen phase but to put ur body at risk with oral spironolactone is absolutely over the top. I just worry about down and out newbies desparate for a solution to hairloss looking at this guy as a hero. Its scary!!!

Are you talking about me or socks?

If you are talking about socks then I trust him that he is losing his hair and needs meds to stop it.

 

[socks]

So then you trust the literature out there? The few and far conclusive literature at best?

So what do you do when it pull the sodium out of ur heart and disrupts your sodium/potassium pump that governs heart physiology?

You're rolling the dice now and hitting 7's but what do you do when your luck runs out? Plan B is??

You do understand that spironolactone is a blood pressure medicine that has saved the lives of many men/women! spironolactone isnt bad for your heart, quite the opposite.

The only real down side to spironolactone (outside of libido and male 'cosmetic' concerns) is you can develop a condition whereas your potassium levels build up too high causing a rare but potentially fatal condition.


Other then that, spironolactone isnt going to 'hurt' you. Think about it LookingGood, where has all your negative viewpoints come from about spironolactone? I'm betting heresy from other board members who got their info from heresy, who got their info from... Well you get the point.

 

[Trash]

sorry to interfere but spironolactone is a diuretic medicine....
That somewhat is related to the bloodpressure because if you loose water from the extracellular space (blood) your bloodvolume is going down and thats why the bloodpressure is lowered....

anyways i dont think talking spironolactone for its antiandrogen effects (which are the SIDEeffects of this diuretic medicine) is quite appropriate...

cheers

 

[LookingGood!]

So then you trust the literature out there? The few and far conclusive literature at best?

So what do you do when it pull the sodium out of ur heart and disrupts your sodium/potassium pump that governs heart physiology?

You're rolling the dice now and hitting 7's but what do you do when your luck runs out? Plan B is??

You do understand that spironolactone is a blood pressure medicine that has saved the lives of many men/women! spironolactone isnt bad for your heart, quite the opposite.

The only real down side to spironolactone (outside of libido and male 'cosmetic' concerns) is you can develop a condition whereas your potassium levels build up too high causing a rare but potentially fatal condition.


Other then that, spironolactone isnt going to 'hurt' you. Think about it LookingGood, where has all your negative viewpoints come from about spironolactone? I'm betting heresy from other board members who got their info from heresy, who got their info from... Well you get the point.

Heresy??? I lost you there Bro. It's my own doing here. NO one influences me at all. It can hurt you if you force your blood pressure to drop. The last poster made alot of sense. It is a diuretic. That pull fluid out! Did you ever hear the phrase if it's not broken dont fix it?? Well if you have normal BP then dropping it can in fact cause lower circulation to the brain and ur heart could "cramp" up too. Dude just be careful. There are safer ways to save ur hair.

 

[socks]

Heresy??? I lost you there Bro. It's my own doing here. NO one influences me at all. It can hurt you if you force your blood pressure to drop. The last poster made alot of sense. It is a diuretic. That pull fluid out! Did you ever hear the phrase if it's not broken dont fix it?? Well if you have normal BP then dropping it can in fact cause lower circulation to the brain and ur heart could "cramp" up too. Dude just be careful. There are safer ways to save ur hair.

In regard to heresy... If you say so man... You dont seem very knowledgeable about spironolactone IMO... But no offence as most people who comment on it dont either.


As far as blood pressure, I happen to have high blood pressure as well. spironolactone has brought my BP from a 150/90 to around 132/80 (closer to what my doctor wants it at). But that point really is irrelevant. Many doctors prescribe spironolactone 'off-label' for hairloss and acne... I never heard of any 'report' of BP dropping too low from spironolactone... Again, the worst risk about spironolactone (aside from cosmetic concerns) is a potassium build-up. Very rare, but possible.

 

[docj077]

Heresy??? I lost you there Bro. It's my own doing here. NO one influences me at all. It can hurt you if you force your blood pressure to drop. The last poster made alot of sense. It is a diuretic. That pull fluid out! Did you ever hear the phrase if it's not broken dont fix it?? Well if you have normal BP then dropping it can in fact cause lower circulation to the brain and ur heart could "cramp" up too. Dude just be careful. There are safer ways to save ur hair.

In regard to heresy... If you say so man... You dont seem very knowledgeable about spironolactone IMO... But no offence as most people who comment on it dont either.


As far as blood pressure, I happen to have high blood pressure as well. spironolactone has brought my BP from a 150/90 to around 132/80 (closer to what my doctor wants it at). But that point really is irrelevant. Many doctors prescribe spironolactone 'off-label' for hairloss and acne... I never heard of any 'report' of BP dropping too low from spironolactone... Again, the worst risk about spironolactone (aside from cosmetic concerns) is a potassium build-up. Very rare, but possible.

There are many ways that the body can compensate for an aldosterone receptor antagonist like spironolactone. Your body is quite capable of increasing peripheral vascular resistance by other mechanisms if need be.

However, like someone else mentioned, watch your potassium. Watch your intake and see your doctor often to get your electrolytes checked.

The bad news is that you could develop a heart arrhythmia. The good news is that if it destroys part of your heart through ischemic damage you won't develop congestive heart failure.

Just get your electrolytes checked often and you'll be fine.

 

[socks]

docj077,

Any medication can carry with it obscure and rare risks. Even over-the-counter meds and herbs have caused much 'damage' in relatively rare situations.

However, with spironolactone, again, the biggest risk is hypokalemia... Hypokalemia, while being the biggest 'risk' is also very rare. With all the research I did on hairloss boards, acne boards, ect I never once heard of anyone complain of developing a heart arrhythmia (nor do I recall reading that in the PDR but it is possible I overlooked it).

 

[docj077]

docj077,

Any medication can carry with it obscure and rare risks. Even over-the-counter meds and herbs have caused much 'damage' in relatively rare situations.

However, with spironolactone, again, the biggest risk is hypokalemia... Hypokalemia, while being the biggest 'risk' is also very rare. With all the research I did on hairloss boards, acne boards, ect I never once heard of anyone complain of developing a heart arrhythmia (nor do I recall reading that in the PDR but it is possible I overlooked it).

I'm not worried about you developing electrolyte imbalances. Just try to get them checked whenever you go to the doctor. For your health's sake and to perhaps even trend your electrolytes, so you can predict if something bad might happen a few months down the road.

 

[LookingGood!]

Heresy??? I lost you there Bro. It's my own doing here. NO one influences me at all. It can hurt you if you force your blood pressure to drop. The last poster made alot of sense. It is a diuretic. That pull fluid out! Did you ever hear the phrase if it's not broken dont fix it?? Well if you have normal BP then dropping it can in fact cause lower circulation to the brain and ur heart could "cramp" up too. Dude just be careful. There are safer ways to save ur hair.

In regard to heresy... If you say so man... You dont seem very knowledgeable about spironolactone IMO... But no offence as most people who comment on it dont either.


As far as blood pressure, I happen to have high blood pressure as well. spironolactone has brought my BP from a 150/90 to around 132/80 (closer to what my doctor wants it at). But that point really is irrelevant. Many doctors prescribe spironolactone 'off-label' for hairloss and acne... I never heard of any 'report' of BP dropping too low from spironolactone... Again, the worst risk about spironolactone (aside from cosmetic concerns) is a potassium build-up. Very rare, but possible.

BTW, No offense taken. So that's your conclusion? Well this wasnt meant to be a pissing contest man. I think I am knowledgeable enough to realize the dangers it may pose. As for your HTN, that is news to me but even with this condition you do want it to be treated properly with the right meds. 132/80 is still considered high normal by todays standards and will probably change in the next few yrs. ( <120>120/80 to 140/90 stage is pre HTN, > 140/90 is stage 1 HTN.) You should try diet and exercise first to get it at the normal range.
As for you never heard of BP dropping, well that doesnt hold any relevance b/c you are not a medical expert. As for many mds prescribing it for hairloss is totally anecdotal at best. If you heard it on HLH that doesnt necessarily mean it is solid evidence....anecdotal at best.

I wish you well.

 

[socks]

I think I am knowledgeable enough to realize the dangers it may pose.

Which is what -exactly-? My whole point in going on about this subject isnt a 'pissing match' either my friend. I just want the facts to be known (both the good and bad). Right now there is too much misinformation being spread.

Look, I am not advocating anyone take the treatment course I am. I just desire two things here:

1. An actual real-life testament (for good or bad) about my experience

&

2. To make clear what is actually a risk/benefit and what isnt a risk/benefit.

As for you never heard of BP dropping, well that doesnt hold any relevance b/c you are not a medical expert.

That goes -both- ways LookingGood. Neither are you I suspect. So you bringing up your concerns over dropping BP is irrelevant by your standard now isnt it?

I will tell you that while I do buy my spironolactone online to save money I also have a legitimate prescription for it. My doctor (who is a medical professional I would hope ) never brought up my blood pressure dropping too low on spironolactone as being something to be concerned about.

Look, do I think having one's BP drop too low on spironolactone is a possibility? I'm sure with any medication that alters one's BP there are possibilities. I dont think, as you were eluding to, spironolactone is that potent of a BP med.

I have been on other BP meds before that have dropped my BP well into normal ranges... Problem was, my heart rate would fall too low (as in 45 BPM and under). At night I normally can hear my heart beat when I concentrate on it... On my last med my heart beat was so slow at night I couldnt even perceive it... Very unsettling.


Anyhow, here is my point and I'll leave it at this:

spironolactone is an effective anti-androgen and -IS- prescribed by doctors, off-label, to treat both female hairloss and acne in women old and young alike (with or without BP issues). The main side-effect to be concerned over with use of spironolactone in general is a potassium build up (rare). With men, you have an elevated (but not guaranteed) chance of sexual side-effects with the biggest one being gyno.

spironolactone is not poison and is hardly any more dangerous then any other med. That is what the litature and medical opinions have lead me to believe. The only explanation as to why some men here feel otherwise is ignorance. I wish only to challenge and dispel those misconceptions... Not enter into pissing contests

 

[Aplunk1]

Socks, how many times have you had to tell people about spironolactone?

I think you should put a note in your signature saying, "For info about spironolactone treating male pattern baldness, read my story... HERE)

 

[socks]

Socks, how many times have you had to tell people about spironolactone?

I think you should put a note in your signature saying, "For info about spironolactone treating male pattern baldness, read my story... HERE)

You're right!

I actually have been thinking of making a consolidated post about spironolactone and linking it in my sig... I probably should!

 

[Guest]

I still am confused about whether or not spironolactone can be effective orally as an anti androgen, after reading college's posts about spironolactone very short half life. Can it get to the follicles in time? how long does the protection last?

 

[powersam]

it doesnt need to get to the follicles. spironolactone is used by men who have sex changes to turn into women. it goes some way to stopping androgen production. or something like that.

edit. thats wrong now that i think about it. maybe it stops androgens attaching to things? i dont know enough.

 

[socks]

it doesnt need to get to the follicles. spironolactone is used by men who have sex changes to turn into women. it goes some way to stopping androgen production. or something like that.

edit. thats wrong now that i think about it. maybe it stops androgens attaching to things? i dont know enough.

Well atleast that doesnt stop you from posting about it :roll:

 

[socks]

I still am confused about whether or not spironolactone can be effective orally as an anti androgen, after reading college's posts about spironolactone very short half life. Can it get to the follicles in time? how long does the protection last?

Effective orally? As opposed to topically? I can count on one hand the studies that showed any promise of topical spironolactone... And all of them small studies. Orally however, spironolactone is WELL ESTABLISHED as an anti-androgen that is used to stop hairloss and help with acne!!!!

I mean, come on people, does anyone READ my goddamn posts?

 

[LookingGood!]

I think I am knowledgeable enough to realize the dangers it may pose.

Which is what -exactly-? My whole point in going on about this subject isnt a 'pissing match' either my friend. I just want the facts to be known (both the good and bad). Right now there is too much misinformation being spread.

Look, I am not advocating anyone take the treatment course I am. I just desire two things here:

1. An actual real-life testament (for good or bad) about my experience

&

2. To make clear what is actually a risk/benefit and what isnt a risk/benefit.

[quote="LookingGood!":f72a3]As for you never heard of BP dropping, well that doesnt hold any relevance b/c you are not a medical expert.

That goes -both- ways LookingGood. Neither are you I suspect. So you bringing up your concerns over dropping BP is irrelevant by your standard now isnt it?

Actually I am to some degree, not an MD though. My original intentions were nothing less than honorable.
I will tell you that while I do buy my spironolactone online to save money I also have a legitimate prescription for it. My doctor (who is a medical professional I would hope ) never brought up my blood pressure dropping too low on spironolactone as being something to be concerned about.

Look, do I think having one's BP drop too low on spironolactone is a possibility? I'm sure with any medication that alters one's BP there are possibilities. I dont think, as you were eluding to, spironolactone is that potent of a BP med.

I have been on other BP meds before that have dropped my BP well into normal ranges... Problem was, my heart rate would fall too low (as in 45 BPM and under). At night I normally can hear my heart beat when I concentrate on it... On my last med my heart beat was so slow at night I couldnt even perceive it... Very unsettling.
Understood. Keep your eye on it! It is the silent killer in men! 8)
Anyhow, here is my point and I'll leave it at this:

spironolactone is an effective anti-androgen and -IS- prescribed by doctors, off-label, to treat both female hairloss and acne in women old and young alike (with or without BP issues). The main side-effect to be concerned over with use of spironolactone in general is a potassium build up (rare). With men, you have an elevated (but not guaranteed) chance of sexual side-effects with the biggest one being gyno.
I hope you dont get b**ch tits even if it grows massive amounts of hair! :freaked2:
spironolactone is not poison and is hardly any more dangerous then any other med. That is what the litature and medical opinions have lead me to believe. The only explanation as to why some men here feel otherwise is ignorance. I wish only to challenge and dispel those misconceptions... Not enter into pissing contests [/quote:f72a3]
As stated earlier, it was never meant to be one like you have had in the past with others.
It may not be poison but it can harm and tweak your system, you just have been lucky so far. :shock:

 

[Guest]

Yea dude, how long do you plan on staying on oral spironolactone? Aren't you worried about the long term effects?