So where are we with equol?

[lookhowshiny]

I don't exactly get it tbh. So if I can't (btw how to be sure, what tests do they run?) produce it, why wouldn't I just inject it (the bacteria)? Surely it can't be that harmful, since some people have it? Sorry but, is there some kind of equol yoghurt out there presently?

I don't see a reason not to take it.

 

[lookhowshiny]

Okay then, I tried to find a proper study, but failed. Correct me if I'm wrong. There are several types of bacteria that together with isoflavones produce equol in humans. The exact mechanism is not known. Japanese and vegetarians have greater chance of producing (do Africans have it, by the way?). In order to increase one's chances, they have to refrain from red meat and consume greater amounts of green tea together with isoflavones and fish protein (?). The side effects of having equol in your body can be similar to the ones associated with finasteride (?). Is there a study that reflects it (like gyno cases among the Asians or something)? Western organic soy products (like soy milk) contain a little number of isoflavones. Can I just take isoflavones supplement (http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/vf/labels/000007HB.pdf) together with gte (and yoghurt?) to increase my chances?

 

[Bryan]

Why not just use finasteride, instead of going to all that trouble and expense of attempting to make equol in your body? After all that effort, you STILL may not actually be producing it, when all you have to do is take a tiny amount of relatively inexpensive and RELIABLE finasteride!

 

[lookhowshiny]

But how can you be sure that the effects WILL be the same? Some other people say they shouldn't. So a certain percent of equol producers should experience gyno and decreased libido, etc. Those oriental culture customs are surely based on observations, wouldn't they spot it and refrain from soy and other sources, if generation after generation people were to develop breasts?

Sounds silly, but just throwing it out there.

 

[Bryan]

But how can you be sure that the effects WILL be the same? Some other people say they shouldn't.

Listen to _me_, not those other people!

But seriously, what difference do you really think it would make whether you reduce the physical production of DHT (finasteride), or bind another chemical to it that prevents it from having any androgenic effect (equol)? Either way, you don't have DHT binding to androgen receptors and wreaking havoc on your hair follicles.

So a certain percent of equol producers should experience gyno and decreased libido, etc. Those oriental culture customs are surely based on observations, wouldn't they spot it and refrain from soy and other sources, if generation after generation people were to develop breasts?

I suspect that one explanation for that might be that the oriental cultures are exposed to it their entire lives, so they've developed a kind of "tolerance" to lower (effective) levels of DHT because of that equol. As I've pointed out several times before, the pseudohermaphrodites don't experience gyno, either, despite the fact that they've done the equivalent of taking finasteride their ENTIRE LIVES, from birth to death.

I imagine the potential problem occurs only when you live well into adulthood and only THEN start using either finasteride or equol.

 

[el_duterino]

Either way, you don't have DHT binding to androgen receptors and wreaking havoc on your hair follicles.

Bryan, sorry to have to disagree but finasteride does not remove all DHT. So we cannot say that we "don't have DHT binding to the AR", in reality we have LESS DHT binding to the AR.

finasteride does not halt hair loss, it only slows it down.

finasteride alone will not be sufficient to keep your hair all your life even if you started very early.

Believe me I wish it did..it was so easy to just pop a pill instead of having to put all this stuff on my head..and having my girlfriend asking questions why I need to do all this..

You cannot remove ALL follicular DHT using finasteride alone.

Likewise, you cannot destroy all AR using Fluridil or ASC-j9 alone.

In addition, unless I am wrong, I think that the body will try to up-regulate & balance itself to a certain degree:
If it senses less 5-alpha reductase, then it tries to churn out more 5-alpha reductase..or more testosterone...if it senses less DHT..then it tries to create more AR...if it sees less AR then it tries to re-create more AR in a shorter amount of time..or more DHT ..and so forth

So for these 2 reasons, we hit a ceiling with any of the mono-drugs.

As a longtime finasteride & dutasteride user, I have a feeling that best strategy to completely HALT hairloss for many years is to use a multi-drugs cocktail that attack the effects of DHT from different angles, and reduces the effects of up-regulation.

Each drug amount can be reduced in this combination, and should be used topically:
Some suggestions:

1)inhibit 5-alpha reductase to reduce T>DHT conversion (finasteride/dutasteride)
2)neutralise DHT (Equol)
3)destroy Androgene Receptors (Fluridil, ASC-j9)
4)block the AR using an androgen antagonist (Flutamide, RU54881)

So would'nt you agree that equol has its place in this cocktail ?

Cheers

 

[kirrabeachbum]

What dietary foods can create this prime environment for the production of equol when soy is consumed? Green tea, meat, yogurt, leafy greens, vegetables, fruits, other?

 

[michael barry]

El dueterino,

I think that finasteride+fluridil would be very sufficient personally. You throw nizoral usage twice a week on top of that, and you should keep what you have up there pretty much until old age. If some guy does finas, fluridil, and nizoral and still is losing hair after one year, he needs to buy a razor and forget it---his genes must be overwhelmingly tilted towards pattern baldness

 

[el_duterino]

Hi Michael, yes fluridil is very good. finasteride too, But if you have aggressive hairloss this combination might not be enough.

DHT is a signal for the follicules to minimize. The way I see this, it is like using a digital phone. Even though the signal is 30% of the strenght, you still can fully use the phone.
So reducing the overall effects of DHT by 70% might not be sufficient to cut the signal completely.
And it seems that to a lesser extent, testosterone does bind to the AR as well. Maybe test has some impact too.

Lets say finasteride reduces 30% of scalp DHT, and Fluridil inhibits 40% of the androgen receptors..on average during 24 hours. There still is some room left for DHT/test to act.

My aim is to remove the effects of DHT and testosterone binding by close to 100%, using a combination of drugs that work in a synergic way.

I am not going to surrender to hair loss since we have the drugs available today to win this fight.

So far I am extremely happy with my results. I have better hair than 12 years ago.

dutasteride is more effective than finasteride, and you still need Flutamide (or RU) to block some of the follicules that were left over by fluridil.
I just got my tiny 90$ bottle of RU58841. I will start using it and report but this amount is not going to last long.
Cheers

 

[el_duterino]

quick update: I ordered 500mg of Equol from lcl labs. I calculated that if 0.5mg of equol is roughly equivalent to 0.5mg of dutasteride in neutralizing enough DHT for one day, then that should last about 1000 days..
I will mix this with some ethanol and then mix daily doses with a finasgel base to get a slow releasing gel.