Scalp Threading With Polydioxanone Monofilament Threads: A Novel, Effective And Safe Modality.

[alscarmuzza]

I wonder if it's the deepness of the wound or the size of the surface area that matters most

I can't imagine Follica ripping big wounds into people so maybe they already solved this problem somehow

A 0.5 mm dermaroller would produce a wound width of 500 micrometers. A follicle is about 120 micrometers in width. In this case, I would assume that a 1.0 mm (1000 micrometers) dermaroller would be sufficient width wise to try and foster the follicles at the periphery.

 

[Jk1]

Nice find on emu oil wounding neogenesis.

The other i think we should use is castor oil for the pge2 increase.?

So a combo of both ?

I have just started 1.5mm dermaroling how long after dermaroling should i apply emu and castor oil ? I applied plain castor oil 1 hr after my last dermarolling and it had a very good healing effect to skin.. seemed to speed up healing. Would emu be ok to add also 1 hr after dermarolling?

 

[Jk1]

Maybe there 's some kind of chemical that inhibits wound healing and prolongs the process, that way we could recreate the same idea but at home with microneedling instead

Tlr3

http://www.folliclethought.com/luis-garzas-tlr3-hair-and-skin-regeneration-discovery/

 

[RoyMunsonned]

Maybe there 's some kind of chemical that inhibits wound healing and prolongs the process, that way we could recreate the same idea but at home with microneedling instead

Might it not be significant that the thread stays in the same position, whereas with microneedling they hit slightly different places every time, and could either attract growth factors or whatever to different locations, or disrupt forming/healing follicles by jabbing them with spikes, or it being cyclical rather than continuous like the threads allow.

 

[Bklyn_23]

Wow, decided to read this thread on a whim. This is very exciting! And like someone else said, since the modality is already in use on other areas of the body cosmetically, it might not get hung up in much/any red tape. Wow!

 

[nWo Wolfpac]

Nice find on emu oil wounding neogenesis.

The other i think we should use is castor oil for the pge2 increase.?

So a combo of both ?

I have just started 1.5mm dermaroling how long after dermaroling should i apply emu and castor oil ? I applied plain castor oil 1 hr after my last dermarolling and it had a very good healing effect to skin.. seemed to speed up healing. Would emu be ok to add also 1 hr after dermarolling?

Why cant you just add the oils right after dermaroling? I;m thinking of starting this aswell. Do you wash the oils out of your hair after an hour or so or do are you supposed to leave them on overnight?

 

[Jk1]

I guess you could apply the oils directly after some people on youtube already do. Was just being cautious first time i tried it so 1 hr after wounds had dried a bit.
I just ordered emu oil and may mix castor and emu oil 50/50 and apply them strait after dermaroling.

No i dont wash out leave it in 24hrs then wash with water. Then after 48 hrs first normal shampoo oil out

Why cant you just add the oils right after dermaroling? I;m thinking of starting this aswell. Do you wash the oils out of your hair after an hour or so or do are you supposed to leave them on overnight?

 

[BalderBaldyBald]

This treatment seems very odd, and as the paper clearly stipulate :
"Although the exact mechanism of action of hair growth stimulation by PDO threads remains speculative, it is likely to be similar to that of microneedling, involving enhanced expression of hair-related genes, release of growth factors like PDGF and direct activation of stem cells in the hair bulge area"

I don't think this procedure alone can be self sufficient to treat Androgenetic Alopecia, but could represent one more weapon in this battle
IMHO, I think there are other factors at play, as @ALightInTheDark said

Botox and lifting solution seems effective on AAG.

There has been evidence in the past that Botox is effective, not by enhancing Wnt or releasing growth factors, but by reducing pressure on the perforating vasculature, and therefore increasing blood flow and oxygen concentration.The enzymatic conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is oxygen dependent. In low-oxygen environments, the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is favored, whereas in high-oxygen environments, more testosterone is converted to estradiol.

Scalp skin tension measured on Androgenetic Alopecia patients


Treatment of Male Pattern Baldness with Botulinum Toxin: A Pilot Study
http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Fulltext/2010/11000/Treatment_of_Male_Pattern_Baldness_with_Botulinum.79.aspx?WT.mc_id=HPxADx20100319xMP<br />



This PDO threads procedure seems to cumulate both advantages as reducing scalp pressure and increasing blood flow
"During insertion, the scalp skin was stretched by the surgeon’s non-dominant hand to make it taut"
"...and improved microcirculation seem to be the plausible mechanisms"
"Polydioxanone (PDO) filament, a synthetic absorbable suture prepared from polyester, poly (p-dioxanone) has high flexibility and high retention strength, is non-allergenic and has a slow absorption rate (6–8 months)."

But also regulation of gene expression, Wnt signaling, and growth factors release by foreign body reaction, and wounding like microneedling, again for 6-8 months

This is overall quite interesting, but ultimately the hormonal main culprit of this disease is unchanged.
But combined with a good androgen receptors antagonists, results can be even better

 

[thisis]

Dang, I love the author, his article "beyond finasteride and minixodil" inspired me to do more research on alternatives. You don't see many review articles willing to talk about alternatives, in a good light at that.

Just talked with a chinese private plastic surgery clinic. Probably my approach was off, I'm using Bing translate app. Anyway they do the wire facelift, and the doctor accepted to do it on the scalp. When asked about wire length they said 20-40 wires that are 15cm(6 inches), and cut accordingly..
20.000 RMB(3K usd)?! I probably showed too much hope and anticipation when I asked if she did the scalp, hence the reason for the cost.
They said it was negotiable and depending on procedure, 20% off could apply, that is still 16K RMB, woot

I will talk to other clinics. As far as I'm concerned this is it..

Anyway, does polydioxanone specifically stimulate collagen, and that's why this type of thread is preferred(I can see that it's good for facelift, but for hairloss is the wound not enough in itself)? Because I did some quick searching and there is lactic acid threads, which also breakdown over the course of at least 6 months.. Seems like a good fit given the lactic acid discussion

So it stays for ~8 months, and article suggests 3 years for effect to wear off, but that is based on face lift data. So to justify somewhat expensive price, the new grown hair could be stabilized if underlying hair loss issue is taken care of, making it a one time procedure.

 

[Medina]

Tlr3

http://www.folliclethought.com/luis-garzas-tlr3-hair-and-skin-regeneration-discovery/

Another good find

Also worth thinking, a hair transplant is essentially a giant wounding session... so why doesn't it grow more hair

 

[ALightInTheDark]

Another good find

Also worth thinking, a hair transplant is essentially a giant wounding session... so why doesn't it grow more hair

1) It can, Hair surgeons always say this
2) It's not a proper wounding. Between needles and choi and between implanting/dermarolling it's not the same procedure.
3) Wounding by itself is cool but insufficient.

 

[Aethas]

Have you guys seen metformin on wound healing? Apparently some study just came out saying it boost extremely the healing if used

 

[Aethas]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/science...anti-aging-reagent-improve-wound-healing/amp/

 

[champpy]

Dang, I love the author, his article "beyond finasteride and minixodil" inspired me to do more research on alternatives. You don't see many review articles willing to talk about alternatives, in a good light at that.

Just talked with a chinese private plastic surgery clinic. Probably my approach was off, I'm using Bing translate app. Anyway they do the wire facelift, and the doctor accepted to do it on the scalp. When asked about wire length they said 20-40 wires that are 15cm(6 inches), and cut accordingly..
20.000 RMB(3K usd)?! I probably showed too much hope and anticipation when I asked if she did the scalp, hence the reason for the cost.
They said it was negotiable and depending on procedure, 20% off could apply, that is still 16K RMB, woot

I will talk to other clinics. As far as I'm concerned this is it..

Anyway, does polydioxanone specifically stimulate collagen, and that's why this type of thread is preferred(I can see that it's good for facelift, but for hairloss is the wound not enough in itself)? Because I did some quick searching and there is lactic acid threads, which also breakdown over the course of at least 6 months.. Seems like a good fit given the lactic acid discussion

So it stays for ~8 months, and article suggests 3 years for effect to wear off, but that is based on face lift data. So to justify somewhat expensive price, the new grown hair could be stabilized if underlying hair loss issue is taken care of, making it a one time procedure.

It looks like the average price for facial threading is about $1200. so that 3000 k doesnt seem out of line. It is expensive though. If i can get a clinic to agree to do it, im thinking of just testing it out on one side of my head first at a lower cost instead of doing the entire scalp. That way id also have a way to really compare to see if theres growth.
Then if i do see its working ill spring for the other side

 

[Medina]

Have you guys seen metformin on wound healing? Apparently some study just came out saying it boost extremely the healing if used

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/science...anti-aging-reagent-improve-wound-healing/amp/

Maybe I'm missing the point.... but we're not trying to improve wound healing, we're trying to prolong it

 

[alscarmuzza]

Might it not be significant that the thread stays in the same position, whereas with microneedling they hit slightly different places every time, and could either attract growth factors or whatever to different locations, or disrupt forming/healing follicles by jabbing them with spikes, or it being cyclical rather than continuous like the threads allow.

You might be right. In the study the patients were evaluated after 12 weeks. That type of suture takes about 6 to 8 months to be absorbed. It was a small sample. We don't know what the long term response will be after the sutures are absorbed. I looked at some comparison studies of different suture materials. One thing that was evident was that the microscopy showed a void in the area where the suture filament was located after it was absorbed. I don't know if that's relevant, but the point is, that there are some long term changes to the filament area morphology, and that tells me that we just don't know the full effect of this as a treatment modality, even if it is impressive.

 

[Blackber]

You might be right. In the study the patients were evaluated after 12 weeks. That type of suture takes about 6 to 8 months to be absorbed. It was a small sample. We don't know what the long term response will be after the sutures are absorbed. I looked at some comparison studies of different suture materials. One thing that was evident was that the microscopy showed a void in the area where the suture filament was located after it was absorbed. I don't know if that's relevant, but the point is, that there are some long term changes to the filament area morphology, and that tells me that we just don't know the full effect of this as a treatment modality, even if it is impressive.

Well said.

I’m still interested to see the responses from the clinics that some of the forum members reached out to but the fact of the matter is that this study was extremely small and we’ve seen other studies that showed great efficacy in small groups of patients only for nothing to work when members have tried it.

 

[IdealForehead]

Well said.

I’m still interested to see the responses from the clinics that some of the forum members reached out to but the fact of the matter is that this study was extremely small and we’ve seen other studies that showed great efficacy in small groups of patients only for nothing to work when members have tried it.

Damn Jesus dude, I forgot what a top tier Chad Patrick Swayze was. f*****g insane. Imagine waking up as that one day and just walking down the street. Or going to a bar. Holy sh*t that must have been surreal.

Long hair on men looks awesome to me.

eg. Like this too:

 

[Blackber]

View attachment 72172

Damn Jesus dude, I forgot what a top tier Chad Patrick Swayze was. f*****g insane. Imagine waking up as that one day and just walking down the street. Or going to a bar. Holy sh*t that must have been surreal.

Long hair on men looks awesome to me.

eg. Like this too:

View attachment 72173

Yupppp, that’s what my hair used to look like but brown. My hair isn’t terrible (yet) but no where close to what it once was.

Hopefully one day we’ll all get back what we lost.

 

[JLC]

This sounds like it has potential. I'd like to read the blog www.hairlosscure2020.com opinion on it, hopefully he's reading this and does a post about it on his blog.