Saw palmetto users. In here please

[Stinger122]

U know i read somewhere that native american women used it for firming their breasts through history...

does ur girl play with ur tits stings lol....

...and why if ur getting results with Saw are u wanting to try Propecia.?? I mean if it works for u who cares what these guys say...

lol my gf plays with my breasts yes mate :lol:

I dont care what these guys say, I suppose I can say Saw Palmetto did work for me because as soon as I quit, I noticed a shed after a week, which I do find quite weird!

Oh well, but what did make me more afraid was the fact that it isnt proven, I mean think about it would you rather have confidence using something that has been PROVEN to work or something that you are using that is unproven? I don't know what to think of the shed that occured after Saw Palmetto, but theres nothing else to explain the accelerated hair loss as I wasnt on minoxidil yet or the Proscar, so that was weird..

Take care mate!

 

[Andrew]

I am taking :-

1000mg of Saw Pametto and pumpkin seed since Aug 2003

and

1mg propecia since March 2003

No side effect what so ever.

 

[cyberprimate]

I've been using SP for several years. First 320 mg a day for one year or so, then 640mg for 1 year and a half or 2 years I'm not sure. I'm still trying to take 960 mg a day but my taking is a little bit flaky yet.

I did expericence very light testicular pains (more sensations than actual pains) for the first week or so I used it. Not the other side effects you mention.

I had taken minoxidil for a year 5 or 6 years ago and experienced facial bloating then stopped but more out of lazyness. It somehow stressed me to apply it.

I started to take 2mg twice a day for about 3 or 5 months. And my face has changed again. But i also stopped working out in february and gained 1.5 kg weight so maybe that's the main reason and not Saw P.

 

[cyberprimate]

BTW, i've never seen any clinical studies about SP that were using large doses like mine or Andrew's so far.

 

[Guest]

I've been using SP for several years. First 320 mg a day for one year or so, then 640mg for 1 year and a half or 2 years I'm not sure. I'm still trying to take 960 mg a day but my taking is a little bit flaky yet.

I did expericence very light testicular pains (more sensations than actual pains) for the first week or so I used it. Not the other side effects you mention.

I had taken minoxidil for a year 5 or 6 years ago and experienced facial bloating then stopped but more out of lazyness. It somehow stressed me to apply it.

I started to take 2mg twice a day for about 3 or 5 months. And my face has changed again. But i also stopped working out in february and gained 1.5 kg weight so maybe that's the main reason and not Saw P.

What is the logic behind your faith in SP and the large dosage??

 

[Guest]

I used SP for 1 month. My facial hair decreased dramatically, would
get dry mouth, and libibdo was extremely low. I would also lose over 20 hairs in shower.

I stopped for 1 week and my libido is coming back strong, and now I only lose 2 or 3 hairs in shower. I'm not sur of that was a propecia-like shed that would have resulted in stronger hairs.

I do know that SP is a strong dht inhibitor for me.

 

[cyberprimate]

What is the logic behind your faith in SP and the large dosage?

My idea is that effects are visible only when you increase dosage. In other words to make it effective as much as propecia would be (as i think it to be, i've never tried it) you must use a big dosage. I may be wrong but i think studies on SP effects on male pattern baldness didn't use dosages big enough to get any evidence of their effectiveness.

i don't use extremely large dosage (like 10 or 15 pills...) as i don't want to play with my hormons too dramatically.

 

[Guest]

What is the logic behind your faith in SP and the large dosage?

My idea is that effects are visible only when you increase dosage. In other words to make it effective as much as propecia would be (as i think it to be, i've never tried it) you must use a big dosage. I may be wrong but i think studies on SP effects on male pattern baldness didn't use dosages big enough to get any evidence of their effectiveness.

i don't use extremely large dosage (like 10 or 15 pills...) as i don't want to play with my hormons too dramatically.

I don't think your logic computes. In the studies on SP for prostate enlargement, they use 320 per day and get about the same result as 5MG per day of finasteride.


IF and this is a big IF, SP works on baldness, the same 320 a day should BE MORE than enough using the above relationship.

Moreover, if SP inhibits DHT and if that is the mode of its action on prostate enlargement, you are "messing with your hormones" in exactly the same way as with finasteride. Worse, you are taking MUCH more SP than the equiv finasteride.

In theory, you should be a woman by now.

Just kidding but really, I dont think there is any logical support for your SP usage and you may be even putting yourself at risk.

There are users here who reported the exact same side effects while using SP as with finasteride.

What do you think??

 

[Guest]

I may be wrong but i think studies on SP effects on male pattern baldness didn't use dosages big enough to get any evidence of their effectiveness.

Yes, you're wrong. There haven't been any studies on SP effect on male pattern baldness. Please educate yourself on the science of what causes hair loss, what type of 5 alpha reductase enzyme affects hair loss, what kind is blocked by saw palmetto, and familiarize yourself with the clinical data out there. Please don't make assessments or comments about things when you have not educated yourself on these things. Newbies who don't know any differently will read such comments and think they're true.

Please educate yourself.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Guest]

Bruce,

i understand your logic. But logically i should also have low libido if at all and all the various side effects associated with finaster. As you said i should be a woman by now...

So, how come i experience the opposite effects? How come SP was traditionnally used by Native Am. as a sex drive enhancer, an energy booster, and against impotence... ?

Things are certainly more complicated than we'd like them to be, and don't make sense to me neither. There are many different compounds in SP extracts and they possibly interact with each other in a way we don't know.
[/quote]

 

[Guest]

Bruce,

i understand your logic. But logically i should also have low libido if at all and all the various side effects associated with finaster. As you said i should be a woman by now...

So, how come i experience the opposite effects? How come SP was traditionnally used by Native Am. as a sex drive enhancer, an energy booster, and against impotence... ?

Things are certainly more complicated than we'd like them to be, and don't make sense to me neither. There are many different compounds in SP extracts and they possibly interact with each other in a way we don't know.

[/quote]

Well, the American Indians thing is a non-starter. Tribes used tons of diff medicines and that doesnt mean they actually worked. I have never seen any reputable study that suggests that SP enhances libido nor the suggested action for that unless an enlarged prostate was part of the reason for sexual issues.

Be that as it may, all folks respond the way that they respond. I think it is clear that the folks who have checked in here usually report side effects with SP usage similar to finasteride, which makes sense IF SP works like finasteride to reduce prostate enlargement.

Personally, I think SP is more attactive as a topical than as an ingested substance.

But without some real science, who knows?

 

[Guest]

Saw Palmetto is an extremely, extrememly powerful supplement.

To say it might mess with your hormones is an understatement.

I personally cannot take it any more, mainly because it wipes
out my entire sex drive.
Another thing is I ususally sweat real easy, but barely sweat
at all when I'm on SP. I could even skip a day without showering
if I really had to.

SP warrants further studies, as it undeniably knocks out DHT.

 

[NeedSomeHelp]

Saw Palmetto is an extremely, extrememly powerful supplement.

To say it might mess with your hormones is an understatement.

I personally cannot take it any more, mainly because it wipes
out my entire sex drive.
Another thing is I ususally sweat real easy, but barely sweat
at all when I'm on SP. I could even skip a day without showering
if I really had to.

SP warrants further studies, as it undeniably knocks out DHT.

Once you stopped taking SP did your sex drive return?

 

[HairlossTalk]

My sex drive actually went up while using it, and still does if I try it periodically. Most people I know see it go up too. Problem is, it is horrendously potent. I had emotional issues, depression kicked in, found myself crying on the floor for literally no reason. I wasn't even sad about anything. Not to mention oily face, wacky libido, shedding hair like crazy. I dropped the stuff like a bad habit.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[NeedSomeHelp]

wow...so how long were u on it before you came off?

 

[Guest]

saw Palmetto

Any one who says Saw palmetto does not work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,does not know what they are talking about, including redbone

What supplement or regimen do you know of that works on everyone? nothing that i know of, Some guys get great results on propecia or rogaine, some get zippo. Since those do not work on everyone does that mean Propecia and Rogaine dont work and that they are a waste of money? NOpe........just means what i stated before, no program works on everyone.

Same with Saw Palmetto, obviously a lot of board members have posted it decreased their shedding , anywhere from slightly to greatly. In my case it decreased it from 300 hairs a day, raining hair in the shower, clogged the drain every time a huge clump of hair..........down to 15 hairs a day within 2 weeks. Are you guys that say Saw Palmetto does not work , are you saying i am a liar and all of the other posters are liars? Perhaps it was the banana i ate that tuesday that PERMANENTLY reduced my fallout, not the Saw Palmetto. LOL,

To say something did nothing for your hair, is one Thing, To say that supplement does not work and is a waste of money, to me is a blatant overstatement, exaggeration, and makes me question the motivation of anyone making such a statement.

Just look at my above post. Its curious that Hairlosstalk moderators have pre programmed this forum to automatically highlight the word Propecia as a link............hmmmm........then at the Same time the moderators never fail to bash Saw Palmetto as a useless unproven supplement. See any conflict of interest here? oh noooooooooo

 

[Guest]

Re: saw Palmetto

Any one who says Saw palmetto does not work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,does not know what they are talking about, including redbone

What supplement or regimen do you know of that works on everyone? nothing that i know of, Some guys get great results on propecia or rogaine, some get zippo. Since those do not work on everyone does that mean Propecia and Rogaine dont work and that they are a waste of money? NOpe........just means what i stated before, no program works on everyone.

Same with Saw Palmetto, obviously a lot of board members have posted it decreased their shedding , anywhere from slightly to greatly. In my case it decreased it from 300 hairs a day, raining hair in the shower, clogged the drain every time a huge clump of hair..........down to 15 hairs a day within 2 weeks. Are you guys that say Saw Palmetto does not work , are you saying i am a liar and all of the other posters are liars? Perhaps it was the banana i ate that tuesday that PERMANENTLY reduced my fallout, not the Saw Palmetto. LOL,

To say something did nothing for your hair, is one Thing, To say that supplement does not work and is a waste of money, to me is a blatant overstatement, exaggeration, and makes me question the motivation of anyone making such a statement.

Just look at my above post. Its curious that Hairlosstalk moderators have pre programmed this forum to automatically highlight the word Propecia as a link............hmmmm........then at the Same time the moderators never fail to bash Saw Palmetto as a useless unproven supplement. See any conflict of interest here? oh noooooooooo

Science please. Many have posted SAYING that SP does nothing for them. Some have posted (like you) that it has helped. That is the nature of this discussion.

Studies and science break the tie. So far, no one has done squat to suggest that SP helps male pattern baldness.

Does wonder for the prostate thought.

Good luck finding the studies and theory.

:freaked2:

 

[Guest]

I see more people posting that Saw PALMETTO worked for them, than i see guys saying it did not work for them..............most of the guys saying bad things about saw Palmetto have not even tried it, ,,,,,,,,they are the same guys who continue to post, maybe 3 or 4 including the MODDY, which to me is suspect, that he goes so far out of his way to bash SAW Palmetto,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why does the moddy care if guys use Saw Palmetto.
I dont come on bashing topicals, propecia, rogaine, etc, even though for example propecia causes impotence in a certain percentage of guys?
What about that? I say, if they guy doesnt mind, its his choice what to use.
But i find that the percentage of guys in the Saw Palmetto threads saying Saw Palmetto worked for me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is certainly higher than the guys who say it does not work.
Also the guys who say,,,,,,,,,it worked for me........mostly they have USED IT THEMSELVES, so they are passing judgement from personal experience, which is the more credible than some guy who has never tried it saying..........dont waste your money. on natural supplements.

 

[HairlossTalk]

Re: saw Palmetto

Any one who says Saw palmetto does not work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,does not know what they are talking about, including redbone

How many clinical studies have you run on Saw Palmetto to verify your claim that it works? Im guessing zero, right? I sat next to Angela Christiano, head of the research team at Columbia Univerisy, who ran a highly detailed clinical data on Saw Palmetto and its effect on the follicle for over a 6 month period, including actual microscopic photos of the follicle changes, and she looked me right in the eye and said "It didn't do a damn thing". The study was tossed. Thats all the clinical data I need right now. You can't say she doesn't know what she's talking about. She proved it.

obviously a lot of board members have posted it decreased their shedding , anywhere from slightly to greatly. In my case it decreased it from 300 hairs a day, raining hair in the shower, logged the drain every time a huge clump of hair..........down to 15 hairs a day within 2 weeks.

Is that how you collect clinical data? I should run that one by the research team at Columbia and see if they'll give it a go. Ill probably have a hard time getting them to ignore how incredibly subjective and innacurate "hair counts via shower drain for a couple weeks" is.

You could pour urine on your head and see a change in fallout rate. Thats what shedding is. Response to stimuli. Read the shedding article at the top of this page. The second half of every shedding cycle *IS* a stoppage of shedding. Response to stimuli and the natural cycle back into growth is not proof that anything works. Using that as your proof is absurd. Hair does this even *without* stimuli. This is why clinical data is what matters, not what you see in your shower drain. Everything is subjective in hair loss treatment unless you have the means to document your hair counts over a period of 6 to 12 months, and are not on ANY OTHER TREATMENT at the time. This is why we do not base our opinion on what we hear people say. We always base it on the science that has been done on it.

Tell me why there are over 200 studies done showing the effectiveness of SP on the prostate, and zero on SP and the follicle? Did science just forget to check? That's what you're asking us to believe.

Just look at my above post. Its curious that Hairlosstalk moderators have pre programmed this forum to automatically highlight the word Propecia as a link............hmmmm........then at the Same time the moderators never fail to bash Saw Palmetto as a useless unproven supplement. See any conflict of interest here? oh noooooooooo

Yeah you're right, we're out to get you. There's a big anti saw palmetto conspiracy. Let me know when you come down from your meds so we can have an intelligent conversation. You're posting thoughts of conspiracy against helping people on a site with over 500 pages intended solely to help people. Your ability to ignore your peripheral vision is astounding. When you come back down to reality, let us know, and we'll talk.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[HairlossTalk]

I see more people posting that Saw PALMETTO worked for them, than i see guys saying it did not work for them

Who cares? I see the opposite. So who is right? Neither of us. Show me the clinical data. I dont judge the effectiveness even of Propecia or Rogaine on people's comments on discussion forums. I based it on the clinical data. It amazes me that there are human beings out there who think doing that is "stupid". Absolutely astounding.

It doesn't matter what anonymous internet posters say. What matters is the clinical data. Go get me some and you will instantly convert me to a Saw Palmetto proponent. Instantly I will shout it from a mountaintop. Find 200 studies on Saw Palmetto and hair loss, just like I can find 200 studies on SP and the prostate.

I already know that you consider comments from unverifiable, undocumented, anonymous internet posters to be your gold standard for proof. That's where we differ, and why we will never agree.

Im going to go create 50 fake usernames right now, and over the next 6 months, post that rabbit poop grew my hair. Nobody will know who I am, nobody will have any proof im telling the truth, and nobody will know if Im imagining things or not. But you will consider it solid proof, "cuz you heard it on a forum" ?

HairLossTalk.com