Saw Palmetto, A Weak Finasteride, Studies And My Experience.

MikeJay

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and how do you now it is working for hair loss, do you take any others meds or supplements ?
hair has become slightly thicker and volume....it laso controls the itching and scarring ( the burning feeling u get when u put shampoo on your head while having male pattern baldness
 

Vinc2097

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hair has become slightly thicker and volume....it laso controls the itching and scarring ( the burning feeling u get when u put shampoo on your head while having male pattern baldness

oh i have a lot of itch all day long.. maybe its worth a try ! i will look it up on amazon ! how much do you take a day ?
 

MikeJay

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oh i have a lot of itch all day long.. maybe its worth a try ! i will look it up on amazon ! how much do you take a day ?
one teaspoon. about 3-5 grams . u can take more if u want.

However it will work better if u drink with a sour juice or Vitamin C tablets.

Of cos MSM alone cant do much. U need to take ALA, GLA and Saw palmetto too...
 

Amata

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I used Saw Palmetto (85% 320mg) with Beta-Sitosterol for a few years. I kept losing hair but had a great sex drive, always hard, I'm in my 40s. I then finally switched over to finasteride continuing with the SP/BS capsules i had already bought for the first 4-5 months of finasteride. When I then came off the SP/BS I started shedding, despite being 4/5 months into finasteride, and libido dropped. So it seems the SP/BS was working, if not actually enough to stop my hair loss it may have been slowing it down. I stayed on finasteride for 11 months and only started to see an improvement in the last month (end of hair loss and start of hair regain). I came off finasteride as my wife and I were planning to have a baby and finasteride can cause damage to a male fetus according to studies. After stopping finasteride I switched back to SP/BS. I lost a lot of hair in the first 4-5 months and then it went back to usual levels of loss (pre finasteride). I have since added Astaxanthin (7-14mg) to the SP/BS and the hairloss seems to have lessened further (though not (yet) to finasteride levels). I also added Eckolonia Cava which I'm not sure if it has made any difference to hair loss but has brought back a strong morning glory and great deep sleep so I've kept it. So SP/BS works for me in slowing, not stopping, hair loss and increasing libido. But I'd recommend supplementing with Astaxanthin and possibly Reishi spore oil, which I'm hoping to try next. Anyone tried that? Studies show it greatly reduces DHT.
 

Amata

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man I got the 500 mg saw palmetto complex. Mostly powder and 25% extract. For 2 days been having slight stomach ache. It is bearable but I don't want any bad side effects :X I wonder if I should continue and see if the side effects go away.

Just watched a video that I should get the 85 to 95% extract and that 320 mg is the goal daily...:| and I might buy beta sitosterol as well.
that one is a waste of time. it must be at least 85%
man I got the 500 mg saw palmetto complex. Mostly powder and 25% extract. For 2 days been having slight stomach ache. It is bearable but I don't want any bad side effects :X I wonder if I should continue and see if the side effects go away.

Just watched a video that I should get the 85 to 95% extract and that 320 mg is the goal daily...:| and I might buy beta sitosterol as well.
That one will be pointless. It must be at least 85% and 320mg is all you need. I recommend Life Extensions Ultra Prostate which also has Beta-Sitosterol 180mg, nettle root, pygeum and other DHT blockers, I have had reduced shedding since taking it after 3 months
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I hate this so much for you guys. I am with you. I know the hunger but this is no way to live, researching trace elements and using cut-rate natural versions of things that are still likely to have sides and work much less well. People should start out and take a picture and then say either what can I live with or what are my wildest dreams for my hair. So, most of you are in the number one category where I was for 30 years but hair gets worse as you get older and even restored hair won't look like and manage like what you had.

But, like sysyphus rolling the boulder again and again, I commend you all for trying. Baldness is hard-wired to two things: 1)being caucasian 2) being male. It isn't like this for other races. They largely lack beards which essentially are the mirror image of hair. I don't think you or we are meant to have both nice hair and nice beards. The other aspect is the youth one, trying to reclaim the past and I get that too but....
 

Amata

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I hate this so much for you guys. I am with you. I know the hunger but this is no way to live, researching trace elements and using cut-rate natural versions of things that are still likely to have sides and work much less well. People should start out and take a picture and then say either what can I live with or what are my wildest dreams for my hair. So, most of you are in the number one category where I was for 30 years but hair gets worse as you get older and even restored hair won't look like and manage like what you had.

But, like sysyphus rolling the boulder again and again, I commend you all for trying. Baldness is hard-wired to two things: 1)being caucasian 2) being male. It isn't like this for other races. They largely lack beards which essentially are the mirror image of hair. I don't think you or we are meant to have both nice hair and nice beards. The other aspect is the youth one, trying to reclaim the past and I get that too but....
Haha you've never been to Africa so, or anywhere else it seems
 

Amata

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It seems my post was deleted - I'm guessing you can't post brand names here?

What is absolutely critical with natural supplements such as saw palmetto is the quality of the source, the extract, the extraction process and concentration, etc. So no two natural supplements can be considered equal, unlike generic finisteraid and propecia, etc., as they are all sourced and produced differently. So you need to buy from a top manufacturer and pay attention to the details. There are studies that show this is the main reason why saw palmetto studies on hair and prostate vary so much.

In my experience though even the best SP (320mg, 85%, C02) extract alone won't be enough and has to be paired with Beta sitosterol (at least 200mg) and Astaxanthin. And even then I'm not sure if that's enough. The only major side is the financial cost and with astaxanthin you get better looking skin and with SP a libido boost, increased further with E. Cava.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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It seems my post was deleted - I'm guessing you can't post brand names here?

What is absolutely critical with natural supplements such as saw palmetto is the quality of the source, the extract, the extraction process and concentration, etc. So no two natural supplements can be considered equal, unlike generic finisteraid and propecia, etc., as they are all sourced and produced differently. So you need to buy from a top manufacturer and pay attention to the details. There are studies that show this is the main reason why saw palmetto studies on hair and prostate vary so much.

In my experience though even the best SP (320mg, 85%, C02) extract alone won't be enough and has to be paired with Beta sitosterol (at least 200mg) and Astaxanthin. And even then I'm not sure if that's enough. The only major side is the financial cost and with astaxanthin you get better looking skin and with SP a libido boost, increased further with E. Cava.
That's very unclassy. I am done with you.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I would recommend that everyone ignore Amata. He drops dislikes for no reason with his big three likes. If he harasses anyone, please let me know and I will take it to the site organizers. People who can't engage in reasonable discourse don't belong on here and Amata is a waste of everyone's time.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Saw palmetto is unlikely to do anything positive for hair because if you use enough to get to therapeutic levels, it has the same side-effects as reductase inhibitors. Rob goes over this on perfecthairhealth.com. The same is true for phytochemicals. They are too weak to do much of anything except for farm animals eating tons of clover. Palmetto has been touted for thirty years and no one is restoring a head of hair.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Okay, Amata, I am going to report you. I don't mess around with people like you, who think that they can come on here to annoy people actually trying to improve or help others to do so:

Report on user, Amata.

"Harassing others that apparently, without even directing themselves to this person, by disliking every single comment or trying to disrupt the free and polite conveyance of information. I have only had issues with this person and one other, who claimed that anyone using extreme methods (which aren't extreme at all for trans folks, should go ahead and be physically castrated because "usage of finasteride amounts to the same thing. There is a lot of harassment on here towards transgender folks but at the same time, the other 99 percent of folks don't care, they just want to learn and improve as well."

Amata appears to have issues and I asked already that he leave me alone and disregard my postings and instead, he issued another dislike". I work hard on being useful to others and every time one of these types engage in online defamation, it hurts the rest of us.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Rob at perfect hair health has covered palmetto, phyto-estrogens and mushrooms and I don't think that this is a viable path. I used palmetto for years and it is seemingly good for the prostate but not for hair. All "natural" treatments employed as "baby brothers" to regular treatments via estrogen and reductase inhibitors are likely not worth the effort. This is because once you approach therapeutic levels of the active ingredients, the sides end up being the same or worse than using the USP pharmaceutical inhibitors.

So touting things like palmetto to avoid using finasteride or Duta is unlikely to be successful and it might not be good for producing offspring either. If any natural solution existed, then we probably would know given that written history extends backwards three thousand years. I wish you all the best bet it is always appropriate to simply stop monitoring a particular threads where there are people who don't want my input. Goddess bless and keep all of you in good hair....
 

Unacknowledged

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Saw palmetto is unlikely to do anything positive for hair because if you use enough to get to therapeutic levels, it has the same side-effects as reductase inhibitors. Rob goes over this on perfecthairhealth.com. The same is true for phytochemicals. They are too weak to do much of anything except for farm animals eating tons of clover. Palmetto has been touted for thirty years and no one is restoring a head of hair.

I dont think thats true. SP could help. lets say your dht levels are a tad above what your hair can take and SP brings that level slightly down. should be helpfull for maintaining.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I don't disagree with that theoretically especially for maintenance, but we lack studies and the health food industry is not always meticulous in its preparations.

We all, including me, or at least most of us are likely to get discouraged though when trying natural remedies that don't actually indicate regrowth. From my own experience, the number one natural maintenance substance is either polysorbate 60 or polysorbate 80. They went out of fashion because the "sebum plug" baldness theory proved not to describe how they work or any other mechanism by which they might work. I have written that it might be because they work similarly to ketoconozole and lower hair loss in a way that is difficult to articulate but may be due to their effects on reducing scalp inflammation by yeast, namely, furfur.

My rule of thumb is however, that if we are using a natural remedy as a substitute for a pharmaceutical one, it is likely to have sides as well and also likely to be less efficacious and what many of us might characterize as a "waste of time". Largely, I have avoided such meds besides saw palmetto because there are a lot of obvious parallels with people on HRT, many of whom start off with phytochemicals and puira and saw palmetto and who see little to no difference in their visages or externally body-wise.

I did go through a phase where I was eating tofu all of the time even though I don't like it but since Asians experience less hair loss, it was worth a hail Mary for a while. I think that @bridgeburn on the hormonal life thread tried the tofu/saw palmetto route before he decided to go on meds used generally only by MtFs. Once a person is on the inside of HRT, she has a real perception that estrogen is the key to all of this, and when you add in the up-to-triple the anagen phase under estrogen, it is hard for me to see many regrowth methods in the absence of HRT. I had great results from polysorbates and finasteride/Duta and minoxidil in terms of maintenance and I urge cis-guys to make maintenance the only goal because finasteride/minoxidil are powerful in terms of maintenance, especially when oral minoxidil is used.

I am testing out the Kirkland method of ingesting oral minoxidil (which contains active ingredient plus alcohol plus one food preservative so unlikely to be harmful, nor does it taste that bad) which I expect to work much better because minoxidil is dependent on the production of certain enzymes in the scalp than many of us lack. After passing through the liver, though, minoxidil seems far more pervasive in its effects and side-effects. But oral minoxidil might be the most efficacious treatment for cis-guys in terms of "regrowth", even up there with Dutasteride. I have so many stacks that it is somewhat difficult to ascribe any particular results. I even derma-roll but I don't think that most MtFs need to. For males, derma-rolling and oral minoxidil might be they only things that actually "regrow" hair.
 
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partysnacks

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JaneyElizabeth

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Oral minoxidil does seem to be gaining in popularity lately. Do you think oral is more effective? From a convenience POV its certainly appealing.

Also here's a recent (2020) on oral minoxidil: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13555-020-00448-x
It seems relatively safe at low doses.
Thank you for the link. I was watching several youtube videos related to oral minoxidil this weekend and reviewing studies and it seems to be greatly un-touted in terms of appearing to cause something at least akin to regrowth. My hassle is/was that the place where I purchased topic estrogen and retin-A, only sells the topical minoxidil which I have used since 1988 so I needed to find a better outlet. When you can find it online, it is pretty cheap though and given the more precise measurement and convenience, for those who can get it. My outlet is pretty much the only one that takes credit cards, Amazon4health.com out of Thailand and using bank drafts is a hassle and more likely to go unfilled. I will continue reporting back and placing pictures. If my hair weren't looking so much better, I would be like many on here and unwilling to post. I have full pictures up of my baldness from a spironolactone shed that would be too painful otherwise to post (Goddess don't fail me now!) I have hair progress and mtf progress here:

https://inpursuitoffeminity.blogspot.com/2020/04/more-filler.html

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-route-hair-life.109288/page-593#post-1913668
 

partysnacks

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Have you tried getting it prescribed? Also aren't you concerned about hypertrichosis since you're MtF?
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Have you tried getting it prescribed? Also aren't you concerned about hypertrichosis since you're MtF?
I was concerned and then I thought about it. I have access to several different people who have done hair removal for me and laser, except for the face, is no big deal in terms of cost or pain, although it does hurt some. So since my hair goals are primary, I am most worried about weight gain and water retention primarily and getting dark circles under my eyes, which wasn't a problem for me over 32 years using topical Min. I am also using topical daily and twice when I micro-needle, along with retin-a on the hairline, crown and my entire neck and face to hopefully lessen skin effects while promoting hair growth effects. I never even cared about circles under my eyes until I had achieved sufficient improvement/regrowth until I began to expect it, knock on wood and all hail our Goddess. My looks as a transfemine person are much more important to me now whereas in the past, as long as I had hair, I was fine with some discoloration plus there is always cosmetic treatment.

I have also had all of the recommended botox treatments for hair which is fine because they make a person look much younger even if they don't do much for hair growth. Still some studies have touted 18 percent hair improvement from facial botox, particularly with respect to the masseter muscles which are used for chewing and can thicken greatly due to bruxism and cis-males chewing with more false. It's impossible to disentangle from HRT though and really from beard removal which I tend to thick is also effective for reducing hair loss and killing dermatitis cold. My thought is that there are several things with respect to caucasians making baldness more likely for us than for other races, along with Semites who also struggle with baldness essentially at the same rate as non-Semitic whites. These are generalizations of course but few seem to challenge they notion that whites and African Americans bald at higher and much higher rates, than Siberians, Inuit, Native Americans and Asians.

In terms of getting a prescription or Loniten, that is a bit more work than drinking Kirkland's although quite inexpensive related to other treatments. I am not trying Loniten because the place that I get my offshore hormones from doesn't sell it and all the other offshore sites requires checks or other negotiable instruments. Amazon4Health out of Thailand does take CC's and they sell several useful things like Latisse, estrogen, bicalutamide, retin-A and other such goodies.
 
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