RU 250mg per day is actually working

[AndrewBarnes]

If you’re down for more experimentation, if you’re forced to use an AI again, maybe also use high dose topical estrogen? I’m curious to see if you can avoid the hair loss effect from the AI by focusing estrogen on the follicles plus also avoid systemic estrogen sides, Maybe even get some growth.

I only experienced hair loss from letro crushing my estrogen levels. Right now I'm on 60mg of ralox and 12.5mg Aromasin ED due to the 500mg of RU I took last week. I took 25mg of Aromasin for the past week to avoid gyno problems with 500mg RU and the effect of the RU counteracted the negative effects the AI had on my hair.

I know what you're saying in regards to the topical estrogen, and I'll admit that I never thought of that because I never researched topical estrogen before, but I feel like if the topical estrogen goes systemic it will result in gyno and force me to take more AI, which is already expensive enough for a maintenance dose. Can topical estrogen go systemic?

 

[Selb]

I only experienced hair loss from letro crushing my estrogen levels. Right now I'm on 60mg of ralox and 12.5mg Aromasin ED due to the 500mg of RU I took last week. I took 25mg of Aromasin for the past week to avoid gyno problems with 500mg RU and the effect of the RU counteracted the negative effects the AI had on my hair.

I know what you're saying in regards to the topical estrogen, and I'll admit that I never thought of that because I never researched topical estrogen before, but I feel like if the topical estrogen goes systemic it will result in gyno and force me to take more AI, which is already expensive enough for a maintenance dose. Can topical estrogen go systemic?

Interesting that the RU countered some of the negative effects. Has anyone ever tried a large dose of RU like you and continued using an AI?

Topical estrogen does go systemic, but you need a lot of it. I was thinking that the AI in your body would already prevent gyno induced by the estrogen. But the local effect of estrogen on your hair will be enough to protect it. Mostly because you’re putting it directly on your scalp

 

[AndrewBarnes]

Interesting that the RU countered some of the negative effects. Has anyone ever tried a large dose of RU like you and continued using an AI?

Topical estrogen does go systemic, but you need a lot of it. I was thinking that the AI in your body would already prevent gyno induced by the estrogen. But the local effect of estrogen on your hair will be enough to protect it. Mostly because you’re putting it directly on your scalp

I would have to do more research on it and after reading whatevr's thread about it, it seems like something I wouldn't mind trying out. It seems like he used a liquid solution of topical estrogen, which is interesting because I thought there was only estrogen creams available. Which type of topical estrogen is recommended?

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/an-idea-topical-estrogen-with-aromatase-inhibitors.101396/

I don't think anyone is taking 500mg of RU daily because the chest problems on it are real. I experienced no problems from 250mg but I'm sure if I took it long enough I would. If it didn't cause heart problems, RU would be the perfect AA to combat hair loss because it's somewhat strong, relatively cheap and has a short half life. The problem with daro and other AA is their half life. If daro had a half life of 1 hour, it would literally be the cure to hair loss for most guys because it's safe to take ORALLY in large doses (500mg+), and is 100x stronger than RU.

 

[AndrewBarnes]

Interesting that the RU countered some of the negative effects. Has anyone ever tried a large dose of RU like you and continued using an AI?

Topical estrogen does go systemic, but you need a lot of it. I was thinking that the AI in your body would already prevent gyno induced by the estrogen. But the local effect of estrogen on your hair will be enough to protect it. Mostly because you’re putting it directly on your scalp

Would using topical estrogen also decrease test and DHT in the scalp? Taking an AI decreases estrogen which in turn increases test and vice versa but I'm not sure how much effective that would be on the scalp.

 

[Norwoody]

Instead of loading up on one thing, try doing smaller dosages across multiple types of treatments for a compounding effect.

 

[AndrewBarnes]

Instead of loading up on one thing, try doing smaller dosages across multiple types of treatments for a compounding effect.

That's my end goal but I first need to see how my body reacts to each substance separately. I need to analyze the results, side effects, and how to combat the sides if I get any. Rn I feel that using RU at 50-100mg with another anti-adrogen is a winning combination.

 

[Norwoody]

Gotcha

 

[Selb]

I would have to do more research on it and after reading whatevr's thread about it, it seems like something I wouldn't mind trying out. It seems like he used a liquid solution of topical estrogen, which is interesting because I thought there was only estrogen creams available. Which type of topical estrogen is recommended?

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/an-idea-topical-estrogen-with-aromatase-inhibitors.101396/

I don't think anyone is taking 500mg of RU daily because the chest problems on it are real. I experienced no problems from 250mg but I'm sure if I took it long enough I would. If it didn't cause heart problems, RU would be the perfect AA to combat hair loss because it's somewhat strong, relatively cheap and has a short half life. The problem with daro and other AA is their half life. If daro had a half life of 1 hour, it would literally be the cure to hair loss for most guys because it's safe to take ORALLY in large doses (500mg+), and is 100x stronger than RU.

Estriol has a good effect for hair. For dosage, I’d ask users from the hormonal threads. I’ve heard of creams and gels. Nothing about liquid application but that might be better.

Also I want to repeat that you should only do this if you’re already going to use an AI. Don’t go out of your way to use an AI.

So if someone were to modify daro to have a short half life, that would be a cure? Maybe I should have become a chemist.

Would using topical estrogen also decrease test and DHT in the scalp? Taking an AI decreases estrogen which in turn increases test and vice versa but I'm not sure how much effective that would be on the scalp.

Estrogen antagonizes the ARs a bit. I don’t think it’ll necessary reduce testosterone, I don’t know the science there, but it’ll serve as a sort of AA.

 

[AndrewBarnes]

Estriol has a good effect for hair. For dosage, I’d ask users from the hormonal threads. I’ve heard of creams and gels. Nothing about liquid application but that might be better.

Also I want to repeat that you should only do this if you’re already going to use an AI. Don’t go out of your way to use an AI.

So if someone were to modify daro to have a short half life, that would be a cure? Maybe I should have become a chemist.



Estrogen antagonizes the ARs a bit. I don’t think it’ll necessary reduce testosterone, I don’t know the science there, but it’ll serve as a sort of AA.

I just watched a more plates more dates video on the topic of topical estrogen and he says he experienced no systemic symptoms, which is good, but also no positive effects from using topical E. He didn't mention people who are already taking an AI, which I believe is the group of people who will benefit from topical E the most.

Using daro, an AI (to combat gyno), and topical estrogen seems like a good routine that I will need to try. Daro is like a miracle drug because after taking it for only 2 days, my hair loss decreased by half, from 50 hairs lost every shower down to 25. Daro also lead me to the conclusion that if you're taking an anti androgen and it's not working within a month, then you should either switch products or increase the dose. Anti androgens work fast and you'll see the results fast (results as in how much hair you lose).

There is actually an anti-androgen that is close to the potency of daro with 1/2 the half life. It's called ORM-15341, aka ketodarolutamide. It's the metabolite that daro turns into. I would love to try it but the problem is it's not highly demanded and thus chemical suppliers charge an arm and a leg to synthesize it. I've been trying to find a supplier and the cheapest quote I got so far was ($350 for 100mg, $950 for 1gram). According to my research, the reason companies don't develop drugs like daro with a shorter half life is because they are creating anti androgens with the intent of treating prostate cancer and their incentive is to create drugs with a higher half life, rather than shorter. A powerful antiandrogen with a short half life (1 hour or less) that doesn't cause other severe side effects, is the cure to hairloss in my opinion.

 

[Norwoody]

Ideally I would think that you would want a long transdermal half-life but a short serum half-life

 

[Jakejr]

Gyno or puffiness or hardening of male breast tissue will dissipate if testosterone is normalized. What can appear to be gyno is sometimes excess fat from being overweight, out of shape.
I have RU applied topically never had any issues. It’s just another androgen decreaser. Personally Duasteride topical is more effective IMO.
Instead of considering from 200 to 100 hairs lost a victory, I look for hair regrowth. There are mixed messages from doctors, etc most who are repeating something they heard or read, but if you apply anti androgens/estrogen/derivatives topically in most cases you should be fine. Our skulls are fairly thick, just kidding. Our bodies make estrogen/testosterone naturally.
RU to be truly effective may have to be combined with something else to hit the receptors better.

 

[AndrewBarnes]

Gyno or puffiness or hardening of male breast tissue will dissipate if testosterone is normalized. What can appear to be gyno is sometimes excess fat from being overweight, out of shape.
I have RU applied topically never had any issues. It’s just another androgen decreaser. Personally Duasteride topical is more effective IMO.
Instead of considering from 200 to 100 hairs lost a victory, I look for hair regrowth. There are mixed messages from doctors, etc most who are repeating something they heard or read, but if you apply anti androgens/estrogen/derivatives topically in most cases you should be fine. Our skulls are fairly thick, just kidding. Our bodies make estrogen/testosterone naturally.
RU to be truly effective may have to be combined with something else to hit the receptors better.

I know what gyno is and isn't after taking daro. I have still have a slight puffy right nipple and way more hardening that before.

I definitely agree that RU needs to be combined with something else. If it wasn't for the heart palpitations, I would take RU at 500mg to 1g a day but that's just not possible and only taking 100mg is effective enough for me.

I have tried dutasteride topically but I can only apply 2mg a week at most otherwise I experience libido issues. I also didn't experience any good or negative effects from applying duta topically. I take finasteride but duta isn't for me.

 

[AndrewBarnes]

I'm attempting to purchase 1 gram of ORM-15341 (daro's metabolite) for $350 from sigmaaldrich.com but they only sell to other labs. Hopefully I convince them cause this is the only viable source I found. Fingers crossed.

 

[bluecyclone]

This is absolute overkill
If you are using topical dutasteride then you don't need topical finasteride nor oral finasteride.
Specially since you are using RU58841. Your dose is extremely high as well

I lose 5 hairs a day on topical dutasteride. I use 0.1% now every other day, 2ml
Scalp DHT has been reduced almost 90%

I’m on .5 topical Dutasteride 100 mg RU daily and oral monad losing ground... how do you check scalp DHT

 

[mannyFJ]

I have been applying the RU only to my hairline and the front of my scalp instead of applying it all over the top of my head like I used to. I recently did an experiment where I only washed the back and crown of my head with shampoo and conditioner and the haircatcher had 0 hairs. Literally 0. I washed the front of my hair and the hair catcher showed that's where most of my hairloss comes from.

Where did you source your RU from?

 

[AndrewBarnes]

Where did you source your RU from?

Kane Shop. Need to get another batch soon.

 

[mannyFJ]

Kane Shop. Need to get another batch soon.

Oh so soon? I thought you were trying to resolve the gyno?

I tried the Kane's RU KB solution and I initially got headaches which quickly subsided but didn't see any growth. You compound your own? If so, what's your vehicle for RU?

 

[AndrewBarnes]

Oh so soon? I thought you were trying to resolve the gyno?

I tried the Kane's RU KB solution and I initially got headaches which quickly subsided but didn't see any growth. You compound your own? If so, what's your vehicle for RU?

I'm still taking Ralox for the gyno but I have it 90% under control now so I'm continuing to try treatments. As for RU, I buy Kane's 10g RU powder and mix it into a 70%/30% Ethanol/PG vehicle. The headaches you experienced just means that the product is working but if you get heart palpitations, definitely lower the dose or get off it completely.

I also was not able to convince sigmaaldrich.com to sell me the 1 gram of ORM-15341 for $350 but DCchemicals was nice enough to match the price this one time Going to try ORM-15341 when it arrives because it is very powerful and has a 10 hour half life vs darolutamide which has a 20 hour half life. I have high expectations for ORM-15341. This stuff is worth more than gold (literally). 1 gram of gold = $45). Fingers crossed.

 

[Valkyyr]

My regimen right now is RU 250mg ED, 1.25mg oral finasteride ED, 2.5mg topical finasteride ED, 1.25mg topical duta per week.

This regimen makes very little sense.

You don't need to take 5α-Reductase ED when you are on ru. 1.25mg 3 x week is enough. Also, what's the point of mixing oral and topical finasteride? It's like injecting testosterone & applying it transdermally together. Doesn't make sense, you are just wasting money.

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[AndrewBarnes]

This regimen makes very little sense.

You don't need to take 5α-Reductase ED when you are on ru. 1.25mg 3 x week is enough. Also, what's the point of mixing oral and topical finasteride? It's like injecting testosterone & applying it transdermally together. Doesn't make sense, you are just wasting money.

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I agree that combining topical and oral 5ARI is a waste of money because I didn't know how well antiandrogens/RU will work at the time. I was on oral and topical 5ARI before I started this thread but I have since cut it out of my regimin. Rn I'm taking 1.25mg of Proscar ED and waiting for my ORM-15341 to arrive in the mail. I can take finasteride everyday because I experience no side effects from it.