Roast My Regrowth Regimen! (all Feedback Welcome)

dgadgdea

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First want to say, thanks to all the smart people contributing on this forum and interpreting the latest research/studies for ways in which we might be able to practically apply.

I’ve been giving myself a crash course over the last month but I still have a lot to learn.

My primary goal is to reverse the thinning on my crown, which with my dark hair is starting to look like one of the worst hallmarks of male pattern baldness… the good news (hopefully) is that there is still hair there, it is just much thinner/more diffuse than the surrounding areas and skin shows through.

As a secondary goal I would like to halt the hairline recession (my forehead has become pretty d@mn big) and maybe even get some regrowth/advancement if I’m lucky. So basically the same thing everyone wants.

On the anti-androgen front -- I’ve been taking 0.25 mg finasteride daily (titrated down from 1.0mg daily). I do have sides (minimal libido, no morning wood, lack of sexual interest). As a result I am soon switching to a once-per-week application of 0.5% liposomal topical dutasteride (compounded by Farmacia Parati). My hope is that this will be effective for keeping scalp DHT in check while giving my serum DHT some room to recover (stay tuned)

I’ve been applying ~1ml of RU58841 one time daily (purchased from Chemyo, it is the pre-mixed solution). I might start mixing RU into my daily topical instead. I also apply minoxidil twice a day, one of the two daily applications is usually the MinoxidilMax “Dualgen-5R” (contains 5% azelaic acid and 0.025% retinoic acid). Also recently started applying 1.0% hydrocortisone (Scalplin) ~3 days a week.

On the needling front, for maybe a year I have been doing once-a-week at 1.5mm using the Dr. Pen A7. Admittedly haven’t been super diligent about it. I’ve recently switched to a protocol more closely resembling Follica (1mm, every two weeks, ~15 minutes on the Dr. Pen A7 medium speed setting). I’m also planning to begin doing some light daily needling, maybe 0.5mm - 0.75mm for 5 minutes per day.

Which brings me to the reason for this post -- I want to devise a topical regimen for daily application after light needling that covers as many bases as possible to give the greatest chance for regrowth. At this point I think I’m willing to entertain most research chemicals, but want to avoid potentially feminizing stuff and riskier approaches like hedgehog signaling.

Disclaimer -- I really don’t know how solubility works for various compounds, absorption, stability constraints, receptor site competition, affinities or how various molecules interact with each other in good or bad ways so I would welcome any input on those fronts.

Let’s assume for this exercise that I am going to mix batches daily and apply after light needling. Also for the moment let’s ignore cost and supply chain (sourcing is my next problem…)

I would also be super grateful if those of you smarter than me could 1) double check or suggest dosage on some of these, and 2) tell me what insanely dangerous mistake I’m about to make my putting this on my head

Gen 1 Regrowth Topical Regimen (for a single application):
  • 3 ml of 5% generic minoxidil --
    • increase VEGF (is this a suitable vehicle? Problems/interactions with anything below?)
  • 3 drops Sandalore --
    • (I think this equates to ~5%)
  • 6 mg Valproic Acid (VPA) --
    • activate Wnt/β-Catenin signaling pathway by inhibiting GSK3b (Seen mixed opinions on whether GSK3b is a worthwhile Wnt attack vector i.e. Follica...)
  • 1mg PGE2 --
    • growth stimulant (is this about the right dose?)
  • ___mg Ramatroban --
    • PGD2 inhibitor. (What daily dosage is appropriate? How does it compare to OC/TM? Is PGD2 inhibitor even necessary?)
  • 3mg WAY-316606 --
    • Wnt signaling -- from what I gather reduces the wnt inhibitor SFRP1
  • ___mg Rapamycin -- mTOR inhibition. (Does this fit into the puzzle? Picked it up from a mouse study below…)

My plan would be to add these things incrementally to a topical as I am able to procure them. I have a lot of questions about how well these would be absorbed vs. wasted.

I will be happy to take detailed photo documentation and timeline to track any (hopeful) progress. Thanks all for your input.
 

pegasus2

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Looks pretty good. The recommended dose of rapamycin is 1mg daily or 6-7mg once a week. VPA might work better in combination with rapamycin than it otherwise does.

Regarding ramatroban, the jury is still out on the usefulness of PGD2 inhibitors. The weaker ones don't do annoying. Ramatroban is potent and cheap, but it's not selective. OC and TM are more selective. TM is extremely potent. Only around half of balding men had hair follicles that were sensitive to PGD2. You can check your DNA to see if you're likely one of those people.

Most of what you apply to your scalp is wasted. The book Percutaneous Penetration Enhancers can help you select a good vehicle. The standard ethanol/pg vehicle used in Rogaine is sufficient, but there are better options that will get significantly more of the active drug to your follicles. This is an overlooked aspect of experimentation here. It's not as sexy as a new drug, but new drugs are useless if you don't get them to the right place.

Keep your expectations in check. Hairline reversal is all but impossible, even with estrogen. If you can thicken up your current hairline you can get a transplant to lower it a little.
 
Last edited:

MeDK

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If all those things to already have used doesn't work now, why do you think that would all of suddenly change?

I'm missing some reasoning.

Also when wounding then get some blood work done. Then you can see how you trash your health over time and maybe face some long term consequences, but then you at least know why you have some sideeffects when introducing it directly into the skin and perhaps blood flow.
 

dgadgdea

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If all those things to already have used doesn't work now, why do you think that would all of suddenly change?

I think my halfway-disciplined regimen of min/finasteride/RU/needling over the past couple years has stemmed the tide somewhat, but would really like to make an earnest effort to turn the tide before throwing in the towel. If I get to the end of this road, have tried everything within my power, and hair still looks like sh*t, I'll say f*ck it and "just shave it". I think this kitchen sink approach is my way of coping if we're being honest.

Also when wounding then get some blood work done. Then you can see how you trash your health over time and maybe face some long term consequences, but then you at least know why you have some sideeffects when introducing it directly into the skin and perhaps blood flow.

It is about time I get some blood work done again, any advice on which tests I should keep a close eye on as potential warning signs or red flags?
 

dgadgdea

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I think for the first iteration of this I'm going to stick with just the minoxidil, sandalore, VPA, and PGE2.

I've got more to learn about the vehicle and other proposed components, and need to start learning ways to source this stuff that aren't TheKaneShop. If anyone can point me down the road to learning how to source stuff reliably from Alibaba it would be much appreciated.

As a reference to anyone reading in the future here are some of the studies I came across supporting the potential efficacy of these components:

Sandalore:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05973-0

Valproic Acid (VPA):

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01548066
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0048791

WAY-316606
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.2003705

Rapamycin (mTOR inhibition)
https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/pdfExtended/S2211-1247(19)30699-0

If anyone has useful/relevant studies related to PGE2 or Ramatroban drop them below, I've read plenty of talk about them but don't have specific studies
 

pegasus2

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This is not specifically regarding ramatroban. The talk about it and other PGD2 inhibitors comes from this study showing PGD2 inhibits human hair growth. There's no evidence that inhibitidng PGD2 does anything for Androgenetic Alopecia in vivo.

There is extensive indication that PGE2 and PGF2a promote hair growth

HMGB1 also stimulated prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) secretion from hDPCs. Finally, blocking the receptor for advanced glycation end-products, a canonical HMGB1 receptor, inhibited HMGB1-induced PGE2 production and hair shaft elongation. Our results suggest that HMGB1 promotes hair growth via PGE2 secretion from hDPCs.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-43242-2

PGE2 upregulates VEGF which is required for hair growth
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC199257/

PGE2 activates Wnts and the ERK/AKT pathways. It's responsible for regeneration in all kinds of tissues. https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/...m/retrieve/pii/S0092867409000221?showall=true
 

Badbald

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160
awsome regime, the main part of it which could make the biggest difference is that topical duta that your getting, my suggestion with this is before you start applying it make sure all you finasteride sides have completely gone, that way if you do happen to get any sides you can know for sure what the cause is. The finsasteride sides have been known to linger in some and i just dont think its a good idea to take something like dutasteride if your not back to 100%.

very interested to see how the topical Duta helps you and if your able to be side free like someone else on here has said.
 

jamesbooker1975

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First want to say, thanks to all the smart people contributing on this forum and interpreting the latest research/studies for ways in which we might be able to practically apply.

I’ve been giving myself a crash course over the last month but I still have a lot to learn.

My primary goal is to reverse the thinning on my crown, which with my dark hair is starting to look like one of the worst hallmarks of male pattern baldness… the good news (hopefully) is that there is still hair there, it is just much thinner/more diffuse than the surrounding areas and skin shows through.

As a secondary goal I would like to halt the hairline recession (my forehead has become pretty d@mn big) and maybe even get some regrowth/advancement if I’m lucky. So basically the same thing everyone wants.

On the anti-androgen front -- I’ve been taking 0.25 mg finasteride daily (titrated down from 1.0mg daily). I do have sides (minimal libido, no morning wood, lack of sexual interest). As a result I am soon switching to a once-per-week application of 0.5% liposomal topical dutasteride (compounded by Farmacia Parati). My hope is that this will be effective for keeping scalp DHT in check while giving my serum DHT some room to recover (stay tuned)

I’ve been applying ~1ml of RU58841 one time daily (purchased from Chemyo, it is the pre-mixed solution). I might start mixing RU into my daily topical instead. I also apply minoxidil twice a day, one of the two daily applications is usually the MinoxidilMax “Dualgen-5R” (contains 5% azelaic acid and 0.025% retinoic acid). Also recently started applying 1.0% hydrocortisone (Scalplin) ~3 days a week.

On the needling front, for maybe a year I have been doing once-a-week at 1.5mm using the Dr. Pen A7. Admittedly haven’t been super diligent about it. I’ve recently switched to a protocol more closely resembling Follica (1mm, every two weeks, ~15 minutes on the Dr. Pen A7 medium speed setting). I’m also planning to begin doing some light daily needling, maybe 0.5mm - 0.75mm for 5 minutes per day.

Which brings me to the reason for this post -- I want to devise a topical regimen for daily application after light needling that covers as many bases as possible to give the greatest chance for regrowth. At this point I think I’m willing to entertain most research chemicals, but want to avoid potentially feminizing stuff and riskier approaches like hedgehog signaling.

Disclaimer -- I really don’t know how solubility works for various compounds, absorption, stability constraints, receptor site competition, affinities or how various molecules interact with each other in good or bad ways so I would welcome any input on those fronts.

Let’s assume for this exercise that I am going to mix batches daily and apply after light needling. Also for the moment let’s ignore cost and supply chain (sourcing is my next problem…)

I would also be super grateful if those of you smarter than me could 1) double check or suggest dosage on some of these, and 2) tell me what insanely dangerous mistake I’m about to make my putting this on my head

Gen 1 Regrowth Topical Regimen (for a single application):
  • 3 ml of 5% generic minoxidil --
    • increase VEGF (is this a suitable vehicle? Problems/interactions with anything below?)
  • 3 drops Sandalore --
    • (I think this equates to ~5%)
  • 6 mg Valproic Acid (VPA) --
    • activate Wnt/β-Catenin signaling pathway by inhibiting GSK3b (Seen mixed opinions on whether GSK3b is a worthwhile Wnt attack vector i.e. Follica...)
  • 1mg PGE2 --
    • growth stimulant (is this about the right dose?)
  • ___mg Ramatroban --
    • PGD2 inhibitor. (What daily dosage is appropriate? How does it compare to OC/TM? Is PGD2 inhibitor even necessary?)
  • 3mg WAY-316606 --
    • Wnt signaling -- from what I gather reduces the wnt inhibitor SFRP1
  • ___mg Rapamycin -- mTOR inhibition. (Does this fit into the puzzle? Picked it up from a mouse study below…)

My plan would be to add these things incrementally to a topical as I am able to procure them. I have a lot of questions about how well these would be absorbed vs. wasted.

I will be happy to take detailed photo documentation and timeline to track any (hopeful) progress. Thanks all for your input.


Why not tretinoin or Ketoconazole ? i don't understand how people avoid already to works easily to get drugs and go with fancy, no approved , homemade labs drugs . Really, don't get it.
 

dgadgdea

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My Regimen
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55
I ordered a bunch of stuff and getting ready to begin a new growth regimen in the next week or two. A couple updates and questions for the community:
  • I started taking oral minoxidil (2.5mg twice a day), so I'm looking for a vehicle other than minoxidil for this once or twice daily topical
  • I'd like to find something decently effective when combined with light needling that doesn't require too much chemistry. I'm currently looking at either 1) Loreal Stemoxydine 5%, or 2) this TrichoSol vehicle :https://shop.fagron.us/en-us/product/wci00369/trichosol-e2-84-a2.aspx
  • Are these molecules and amounts soluble in either or both of these vehicles?
  • I would like to make weekly batches because it will be easier to measure and easier to stick with; any opinions on if these molecules are stable enough to survive a week?
  • A weekly batch would be ~15ml and I would use ~2ml per day
upload_2020-7-27_17-37-47.png


My concern is that I'll mix all this stuff up and it either will break down or not reach where it needs to and be a big waste of time and $... I'm working on better understanding various vehicles and solubility but in the meantime please let me know if you think this plan should be effective or lead to. I'm also weighing the usefulness of Latanoprost in this cocktail as sounds like there may be some redundant components and would have minimal incremental benefit.

Also a couple things mentioned in my earlier post I may still look at introducing down the road are VPA and Rapamycin. Separate from growth stimulants I use Keto 2% shampoo ~3 days a week, recently discontinued daily 0.25mg of finasteride and will be trying to handle DHT via topical dutasteride instead.

Thanks for any advice
 

dgadgdea

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@pegasus2 damn thanks man sure glad I asked! So back to the drawing board, thinking maybe I ditch the Serioxyl and figure something out with ethanol / DMSO / PG. I'll do some digging and be back. Would PGE2 last a week as long as there is no water?
 

BaldLion

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Hello dgadgdea

thanks for sharing your experience!
can I ask you how did you determine the vpa dose of 6mg for a single application?
 
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