Revivogen

[Pondle]

My body fat was 10-11% prior to using finasteride... after 4 months use it was around 15-16%.
Became a real pussy on the footy field, felt down and friends commented about my "spaceyness".
Not on finasteride now and low and behold I'm back.... co-incidence..mmmm NO.
If that isn't enough for you... during Oestrogen 225 (normal range under 150)

excess estrogen = fluid/fat retention and man tits ......... might be where the moods come from as well??

Notwithstanding personal anecdotes there's a real lack of statistical evidence on this issue. I have only found two studies on the effect of finasteride on body composition. Both looked at older men taking larger doses.

One found testosterone administered with finasteride had the same beneficial effects on physical performance and body composition as testosterone alone, "suggest[ing] that high serum levels of dihydrotestosterone are not essential for these beneficial effects of T in men".
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/conten ... /90/3/1502

The other looked at BMI: "The larger testosterone increases seen in finasteride-treated patients in the lower baseline testosterone tertiles were associated with significant mean reductions relative to placebo at year 4 in body mass index (BMI), ranging from 0.6 to 0.8 kg/m2. No statistically significant between-group difference was found in BMI in the upper testosterone tertile."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... d_RVDocSum

On the gyno issue, it's important to remember how rare gyno is amongst younger men taking a 1mg dose of finasteride. There was no significant difference between the incidence in the treatment and placebo groups in the Propecia studies. Obviously it can happen, but let's get a sense of proportion. The Propecia-sceptical members of our community are now going to leap in and say, "ah yes, but X number of people on the forum report it". In answer to that, docj previously noted that the forum has several thousand members - active posters are a very small minority, and gyno sufferers are a minority of a minority.

 

[SoThatsLife]

You're obviously one who hasn't suffered from side effects to the extent of some others....
Personally I work out 3-5 times a week and have done the last 10 years.
My body fat was 10-11% prior to using finasteride... after 4 months use it was around 15-16%.
Became a real pussy on the footy field, felt down and friends commented about my "spaceyness".
Not on finasteride now and low and behold I'm back.... co-incidence..mmmm NO.
If that isn't enough for you... during Oestrogen 225 (normal range under 150)

excess estrogen = fluid/fat retention and man tits ......... might be where the moods come from as well??

Im sorry for your problems on Propecia..but for most people it doesn't have negative effects..thats the biggest point

Hope things have gone back to normal for you

 

[1750]

[/quote]
Im sorry for your problems on Propecia..but for most people it doesn't have negative effects..thats the biggest point
Hope things have gone back to normal for you[/quote]


it's all good...
it's just there's a sh!tload of misconceptions about the wide range of varying side effects that some might suffer from finasteride and unfortunately I don't think that many of the studies available are anywhere near impartial. Everyone's physiology is different and what might not effect some, may very well smash someone else.
Personally I got initial mild sides, toughed it out as most suggested and they seemed to almost go away... or I simply got to busy to bother noticing them.
Then at around the 3 month mark the old morning glorys disappear, the watery semen hit with a vengence and a large list of other crap also hit... including a zombie-like depression.

I'm 29 have always been very athletic and fit (i.e. was a state athlete in my younger days) - on finasteride my hair looked sweet (after a massive initial shed). Evrything else though fell appart....

I have no doubt the stuff works.... unfortunately even on a very low dose like .25mg I get hit with sides.

here we go... here's generally my story as posted on another forum...
the change in my blood results are kinda scary....

bear in mind that my initial round of testing happened mid August this year and despite my nagging they did not include many of the necessary tests ..... after the results they said they would include them next time around.
The first lot of tests were done 9.5 months after quitting finasteride (and two weeks of dutasteride) and I was still having issues despite using DIM, grape seed extract etc.....

Testosterone - 36* nmol/L (range 8.3-29)
SHBG - 38 (range 11-71)
Thyroid - TSH 1.4 (range 0.5-4.5)
Oestrogen - 147 (range meant to be below 150)
Prolactin - 260 (range 40-450)

Serum Ferritin - 204 ug/L (20-300)

Fasting lipids
Cholesterol - 5.3 (range 3.5-5.4)
Triglyceride - 1.5 (range .1-2.0)
HDL Colesterol - 1* (range under 1 preferable)
Cholesterol/hdl-c ratio - 5.3* (range under 5 preferable)
VLDL Cholesterol - .7 (.1-.9)
LDL Cholesterol - 3.6 (2.1-4)
Glucose 4.8 (3.4-5.4)

So armed with this info I got onto AIFM (aromatase inhibitor for men), on days of fitness Yohimbe ES, started taking seligiline & B6 and started to feel great.

That good in fact that I decided to give Finasetride another go at a lower dose of .5mg a day and then dropped this back to .25mg a day after about 5 days because the sides raised their heads again.
I continued for 2 weeks but sh*t went bad...
Got off Finasteride for 9 whole days.
I was off AIFM for 3 day period prior to my next test.
Also dropped seligiline 3 days prior.
Stayed on B6, DIM, grape seed extract (not that I think Dim and GE do much for me).

2nd round results were:

Testosterone: 54* nmol/L (normal range (8.3 - 29) (yep fark me!!)
DHEAS: 8.1 UMOL/l (normal range 2.2 - 15)
Urine Free Cortisol - 461 nmol/24hr (normal range 100 - 300)
Urine Creatinine - 27.2 mmol / 24hr (normal range 7.0 - 16.0)
DHT: 2.42 (range 2-20) - LOW
Prolactin - <20* (range 40-450) - low
Serum cortisol - 8am 399, 4pm 393 - (range of 120-620 and 100-400)
FSH - 5 (range 7-14)
LH - 6.8 (range 7-11)
Oest - 225 (range anything under 150) HIGH
Progesterone - 3 (range .9-3.9)


Sodium - 149* (range 135-145)
Potasium - 4.7 (range 3.6 - 5.4)
Chloride - 108 (range 97-110)
Bicarbonate - 28 (range 21-30)
Anion Gap - 18 (10-20)
Urea - 8.1* (2.5-7.5)
Creatinine - 105 (40-120)
eGFR - 77 ( note from DR - eGRFR values between 60 and 89 should be interpretted with caution -these results are only consistent with CKD in the presence of other evidence such as microalbuminuria, proteinuria or haematuria.... have no idea what this means)
Bilirubin - 15 (range below 20)
AST - 46* (range below 35)
ALT - 34 (range below 40)
GGT - 15 (range below 40)
Alkaline Phosphatase - 83 (35-110)
Protein - 76 (65-85)
Albumin - 48 (38-50)
Globulin - 28 (22-38)

note the change in testosterone and estrogen levels......
Note pondle I had mild puebertal gyno too....
My case - I have high testosterone levels and it looks as though some of it converts to estrogen. Finasteride exaggerates this issue.

sorry to drag this thread way off topic..... just thought some might like to see these results as it clearly shows that some react differently to others....
edit - and that even in some cases, youngish and fit guys like myself had body changes..

to get back on topic revivogen is snakeoil IMO