Replicel Update - Oct. 22, 2014 Presentation

[Fbalding84]

Scientist have also a very little progress in deadly diseases like cancer, heart and brain failure, diabetis and couple of more. You think its easy? Stop with conspiracy theories how companies wont like to cure cancer or hair loss, because they earn a lot of money with expensive treatments. Its stupid theory anyway.

Unless you live in a communistic country you should know people and companies are driven by incentives. And for a company it mainly means profit, quarter after quarter. Unless you can have your insurance pay up high medical cost for "cosmetic procedure" (male pattern baldness is not in the same category as cancer) in the 100's of thousands then you might be right that companies are working hard for a cure. But stepping in reality insurances will not pay even a penny for treatment and most folks can not pay either for costly procedures for a one time application/procedure which can cure mbp. So considering these facts you must somehow accept that the incentive is not big enough to find a full cure. But people would pay for a pill/lotion taken once a day for anywhere from $1 to $150 a month even if the results are minimal. Dumping 100's millions for a product people can not afford and will not be paid for by insurance premiums is suicide for a company. MBP is complicated and will not be solved overnight so it will be costly to develop a product- companies know this. Let's not forget COSTLY (lengthily and risky) FDA trails. So even when the cured is found, it will be expensive -cost a lot in order to make up for the initial investment. Nice vicious circle. Logically doesn't make sense to pursue such a route. It does not offset the risk of a potential negative ROI. No conspiracy theory just hard cold logic.

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There are people who live with cancer and heart attacks or diabetis or paralized and we are the only one who think that world is cruel to us? Come on guys, chill out little. You think your lives are screwed, because you cant **** all the chicks in club? Oh, my god! What to tell people who cant walk, who cant live normal life, because of their deadly diseases like cancer or brain attack, or weak heart, or diabetis and other diseases who are a lot worse than hair loss.

Point proven! For the exact same reasons you mention many companies hace different priorities Vs male pattern baldness cure. There are worser problems in the world to solve, which rightful deserve priority! And yes they will make more money as a nice side note curing those.


Also raising money is hard, convincing people you can do the impossible and take a gamble, give your company money is not easy. specially when the risk of failure is high and profits might be marginal.

Let's hope histogram and repicell crack the code. Fingers crossed!

 

[benjt]

@hellouser: That doesn't have anything with "pseudo-positivity", but with actually having an inside view into research. Unlike you. You have no clue but you are still sure that everyone who has a clue is incompetent. Yes, we know about stem cells for 44 years. So according to your logic, all diseases should be cured by now then? We could just grow every organ in a lab and never need donor organs again? So according to you, not only hair loss researchers are incompetent but basically every researcher working in regenerative medicine and stem cells for the last 44 years? Is that correct, that you consider basically everybody in the field of stem cell research as incompetent? You must be such a pro in these things, please show them how its done!

Same goes for the physicists from all major countries, including almost all EU contries, the US, Canada, and Japan that are working on ITER. According to your logic, they are a "fvcking disgrace". Because: We know about nuclear fusion processes for more than 40 years, so where is our ITER solving all of humanity's energy problems? According to your logic, the best nuclear scientists from all the developed countries are incompetent. So, while you're at it, you could show them too how its done! After all, nuclear fusion is known for 40 years now!

They already answered 1) for US release. They stated four years but four years from when is somewhat ambiguous; it could be 2018, 2020 or later.

https://www.facebook.com/RepliCel/p..._id=711837128875122&offset=0&total_comments=5

Yes, the ambiguity is the reason why this question should be posted a couple more times. And put it like "what year will treatment be available?". Instead of allowing them to post an ambiguous answer, ask for a year.

And the question of treatment costs also still needs to be answered.

As I said, the more people post these questions on their Facebook site, the bigger the pressure for them to give useful answers.

 

[hellouser]

You think its easy? Stop with conspiracy theories how companies wont like to cure cancer or hair loss, because they earn a lot of money with expensive treatments.

There's no conspiracy. People just don't give a sh*t about men's health and especially hair loss. Only a handful of people throughout history have done anything credible in regards to hair loss and the progress has been terrible as well.

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A lot of crowdfunding naysayers for hair loss probably havent looked much into other crowdfunding projects. Here's one that sounds pretty ridiculous:

Robots that fight eachother:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/29/megabots-kickstarter/

That contributes nothing to society, yet hair loss is supposed to be a write off? WHY is this disease always given the cold shoulder?

 

[macbeth81]

At least we can have fun flying paper airplanes, even if we are bald like the inventor.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/393053146/powerup-30-smartphone-controlled-paper-airplane

 

[Python]

Holly sh!t, with those kickstarters having so much funding, I am wondering why in the world would we not get 10X as much. Considering it affects the world at large.

 

[macbeth81]

Aderans had plenty of time and money yet yielded nothing. Follica had plenty of time and money too. PureTech just raised $55 million yet Cotsarelis asks for $2 million to release? If PureTech won't make the investment then there is no value. Money will not fix a bad idea. :sad:

 

[Python]

Aderans had plenty of time and money yet yielded nothing. Follica had plenty of time and money too. PureTech just raised $55 million yet Cotsarelis asks for $2 million to release? If PureTech won't make the investment then there is no value. Money will not fix a bad idea. :sad:

Money fixes everything and buys happiness, you should know that by now.

 

[benjt]

Yay for derailing another thread in the Research section with the typical "oh society is soooo bad, oh scientists are soooo incompetent, everybodys just capitalist pigs, nobody cares about us men" whining. Seriously, repeating this whiny mimimimi over and over again isn't going to change anything, even if parts of it are correct, so please keep it to the Impact of Hairloss section.

Could anybody please make the facebook posts on RepliCel's facebook page with the above questions? I dont have a facebook account. If nobody posts, I will create a facebook account just for that. But the more people ask, the bigger our chances of getting useful answers.

 

[hellouser]

Could anybody please make the facebook posts on RepliCel's facebook page with the above questions? I dont have a facebook account. If nobody posts, I will create a facebook account just for that. But the more people ask, the bigger our chances of getting useful answers.

I doubt any guy from here will want to reveal their identity on social media and especially have his comments show up on his friends newsfeed telling thereby exposing their insecurity about this. Vast majority of people have next to zero sympathy for male pattern baldness.. asking about a cure and stuff is just asking for ridicule.

Having said that; make a fake account.

 

[macbeth81]

I asked privately regarding estimated cost. I am not willing publicly for the reason hellouser provided. They have answered me once before, so hopefully they will answer again. In fairness to Replicel it is a bit premature to ask regarding cost when the dosage and frequency is not yet determined.

 

[hellouser]

I asked privately regarding estimated cost. I am not willing publicly for the reason hellouser provided. They have answered me once before, so hopefully they will answer again. In fairness to Replicel it is a bit premature to ask regarding cost when the dosage and frequency is not yet determined.

That's true. If more frequent sessions are required the price will go up. Dosing though.... ehhh, price will probably be higher but shouldnt be as much as an extra session.

 

[hairmanic]

That's true. If more frequent sessions are required the price will go up. Dosing though.... ehhh, price will probably be higher but shouldnt be as much as an extra session.

Speculation on pricing is useless at this point, why? Because Replicel plans on licensing their treatment to another larger company, and they will dictate the price.

 

[corvidae]

where does it say it halts hair loss?

What I would like to know about this treatment, is it a cure? That is to say, would one go to their office, receive the treatment or a few sessions, then (theoretically, of course) continue their life free of hair loss?
Or, instead, is it more like going to the dentist every 6 months to make sure your teeth still aren't falling out?

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What I don't understand is why everyone keeps thinking because sheisodo invested money it- it means it works 100%.

They are a large firm that can play with money. and even if the results are not good they can't live without hurting them self for cash.

Sheisodo is doing their own trials to make sure it's really working. No one knows how good it is. If they were 100% convinced they would say it flat out and not talk in circle.

A company that is of that size and scope spends money wisely.
Consider the following from a capitalistic standpoint: around 50% of men experience hair loss. No one wants to lose their hair. Therefore, this is a great area for investment. If it is a great area for investment, then clearly the best can be hired for its implementation. Therefore, a wise investor will make careful considerations before choosing a company to invest in. Clearly, they believed RepliCel could work.

Of course, being lowly humans, what do we know of reality? So obviously it could fail, but it's still worth being hopeful about

 

[Python]

Giving a price now would be a bad move for them. If sh!t takes a turn for them, they might have to boost up the price. Then when they make the statement, they will get bashed upon. Although, even if worse case scenario does happen for them, people will still be in line.

 

[benjt]

Yes, price estimates giving a MINIMUM price can already be made right now. They will, obviously, demand at least the cost of cell cultivation, which was estimated to be 15,000 USD. So, unless they have substantially improved the process or profit from Shiseido being able to perform it cheaper, we already know the order of magnitude.

Just posted the questions on RepliCel's facebook site. Let's see if we can get an answer. However, just one single question by one facebook account (really put some effort into the account not seeming fake) will not really create a lot of pressure on them to give a useful answer. Would appreciate some support by "Like"s to the comment or by other fake accounts posting the same questions (but please dont copy and paste, that would make us look like a spam bot, so please phrase it yourselfes).

 

[brunobald]

Interesting technology, at £15,000 I would expect a result similar to a high end transplant, which means quite a transformation and permanent. I guess replicel feel they can achieve this or they wouldn't have received backing from the Japanese company.

 

[benjt]

I am pretty confident they can. Phase 1 trials were a one-injection, low-dosage protocol and for one injection achieved as much as continued treatment with minoxidil or finasteride achieves (not combined, but still). Now they're testing higher doses and a two-injection protocol. We will know more by the end of 2016, but I am rather optimistic. Also because of Shiseido's big investment, including the cell cultivation facility and a couple of million dollars for RepliCel up front + 30 million USD for milestones + royalties. They wouldn't do that if they weren't confident as well.

I just saw that the question on RepliCel's facebook page got some likes and a comment. Thanks for the support, whoever it was!

 

[macbeth81]

Phase 1 trials were a one-injection, low-dosage protocol and for one injection achieved as much as continued treatment with minoxidil or finasteride achieves (not combined, but still). Now they're testing higher doses and a two-injection protocol.

Mr. Hall stated in an interview with Spencer Kobren at they used a significant dose (15:45 minutes), and that they will dosedown to level that gives the best efficacy. Am I misunderstanding, because why would they dose down when efficacy was not great? He did mention more injections (frequency), which makes sense, however, their trial design only calls for two series of injections (day 1 and day 90). If they are decreasing the dosage I suspect this trial will get extended when they find it will require 3, 4, or more sessions to acquire desired efficacy. If it is compoundable that is great, but the lost time will be a downer. Also that will probably increase cost of treatment.

http://www.the*********.com/hair-lo...ceo-concerning-latest-clinical-trial-results/

 

[hellouser]

Mr. Hall stated in an interview with Spencer Kobren at they used a significant dose (15:45 minutes), and that they will dosedown to level that gives the best efficacy. Am I misunderstanding, because why would they dose down when efficacy was not great? He did mention more injections (frequency), which makes sense, however, their trial design only calls for two series of injections (day 1 and day 90). If they are decreasing the dosage I suspect this trial will get extended when they find it will require 3, 4, or more sessions to acquire desired efficacy. If it is compoundable that is great, but the lost time will be a downer. Also that will probably increase cost of treatment.

http://www.the*********.com/hair-lo...ceo-concerning-latest-clinical-trial-results/

Yup, in that interview he clearly states that they're going to dose DOWN in Phase 2 trials.

 

[benjt]

Also leaves me wondering. In another interview on the Phase 2 trials I read that they will try "different doses". Dosing down from Phase 1 doesn't make too much sense. Also they stated on their Facebook page two weeks ago to a question asking why there is only an increase of 20%:

At this point we do not have a target. Our phase 2 trial will test frequency and dosage of RCH-01 injections. Once complete we will have significant data to determine its effectiveness.

My guess would be that they could do both - dose up and down - to see how well treatment scales a) with dosage (remember the flat response curves for finasteride? such things need to be determined) and b) with frequency.

Another guess is that they coordinated with Shiseido's trials to test different dosage, so some doses will be done by RepliCel, some by Shiseido, to later have a more conclusive picture. But that is pure speculation.