Relax, I'm hilarious's story

[IrishFella]

I can see an improvement in the last picture for sure, in comparison to a similar shot you took a few pages back.

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Hey IrishFella
Thanks! It nice to be getting back the old thickness that my hair once had. I used to have dark wavy hair (thanks to my italian family).
I'd like to think that because i started early i'm seeing a good response, obviously its still too early to claim success but it seems to be going in the right direction. I'd recommend to anyone with hairloss to not wait to treat and just to get on finasteride asap and take it from there.

 

[Man in Space]

Nice one, it does look a little thicker. You have similar loss to me and Im also seeing a positive reaction to meds, like you say, I think you are getting results as you have caught it early enough to do something about it. You wont need to have an out of this world reaction to the meds to still see a good cosmetic improvement, a slow gradual one will be enough.

When your hair is dry and styled like it is in the first pic, I think your hair looks good. This is what happens to me, i wear it down like that and it looks good, a gust of wind blows it all up an then the hairline inquisitions begin...!

Hope it keeps getting better for you, ever reason to suspect it will

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Hey man in space
Yeah it's nice to see something positive happening and even though i'm aware that my problems aren't anywhere near as bad as some peoples on these boards, i think we all know that it can get a lot worse quickly if not tackled early.
I'm still at the stage where i can wear my hair long and don't have to cut it short and i don't need to be too creative, no concealer (any more, i did use it for a month or so during a shed) and now the little hairs are thickening up at the front when the wind blows the hair back you wouldn't know there was anything wrong, it's only when i hold my hair back like in the picture or slick it back when wet that you can see. The only thing next is too have have the little hairs thicken more and then i can slick my hair back :whistle:
The fortunate thing that i have going for me is that the actual hair is still there, as i was saying earlier, i still have all the hair in the receeding areas it has just miniaturized so i'm hoping that if this thickens up all will be gold.
Good to hear that yours is also seeing some results, i hope that we can both offer a little bit of encouragement and evidence to guys on the fence about finasteride to just give it a shot and not delay to long.

 

[Man in Space]

I definately think its right to act early, most people agree that losing hair is an undesirable process and fighting it early gives you the best opportunity. My only regret is not starting sooner, I noticed I was receding in my teens and finally got round to doing something about it by the time I was 27, could have saved an awful lot of hair had i started when i was 20. Im in the same boat as you now, hoping the hairs ive already got and the ones ive regrown in the frontal section cycle through thicker each time, heres hoping we both continue to have luck in that department

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

First my apologises for not posting that much anymore, i promised at the start of this i would post at least every other week to keep a diary of my propecia usage but i'm right in the middle of finals which is kinda destroying my time at the moment.

Nothing much to report though on the hair front, about 6 and a half months into taking propecia now, still no sides or any problems. Hair continues to get better (i think). Little hairs on the hairline are still coming in and oddly enough the hairline has lowered slightly on the right hand side, not noticeably but if you look real close there is now a line of small hairs that weren't there before. Some of the thinner hairs are starting to get a little darker and thicken up but they still have a long way to go yet.... So more watchful waiting to go as well as getting excited about the prospect of some positive news from replicel next month on their new technique, i'm keeping my fingers crossed for some good news on that!

 

[mrfifs]

i think theres an improvement! good job. and one more thing about that itch, and you using T gel(coal shampoo) to counter it, did you use the t gel everyday to wash your hair?

my itch was unbearable when i switch to using another brand of minoxidil (growell) from Minoxi5. now ive started using back minoxi5 and though theres still an itch, its not as bad as last time. ive been using nizoral (2%) and even coal shampoo, but sometimes in the day the itch will be back.

any advice?

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Hey mrflfs, when i started, i used nizoral but that made the itch worse so i switched to t-gel with coal tar shampoo, using it every day for a week (leaving it in the hair for about 3-4 minutes each time) then after that i used it about 2-3 times a week for about another month then i stopped. That stopped the almost almost entirely, if i feel i am getting a bit of an itch coming back i usually wash the hair in the t-gel a couple of times over two weeks and then stop again and that seems to sort it out nicely. One thing i would advise is that it does seem to dry the hair out, not as bad as nizoral but put some conditioner on when your washing with the t-gel and that seems to sort it out.
If that doesn't work it could be worth trying stopping the nizoral just for a bit. As i was saying earlier the nizoral made my head itch even worse so it could be that.

 

[mrfifs]

Hey mrflfs, when i started, i used nizoral but that made the itch worse so i switched to t-gel with coal tar shampoo, using it every day for a week (leaving it in the hair for about 3-4 minutes each time) then after that i used it about 2-3 times a week for about another month then i stopped. That stopped the almost almost entirely, if i feel i am getting a bit of an itch coming back i usually wash the hair in the t-gel a couple of times over two weeks and then stop again and that seems to sort it out nicely. One thing i would advise is that it does seem to dry the hair out, not as bad as nizoral but put some conditioner on when your washing with the t-gel and that seems to sort it out.
If that doesn't work it could be worth trying stopping the nizoral just for a bit. As i was saying earlier the nizoral made my head itch even worse so it could be that.

hey mate thanks for the tips though. right now after switching to another brand of minoxidil my head is getting better compared to the itch that i previously had. im still going to use nizoral and see how things go.

right now going to major shed, pretty depressing but im not going to let it go to my head too much somehow when i look in the mirror hair is still ok.

just not going to give up.

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Hang in there man. When i used minoxidil (albeit only for a bit due to sides) i shed real bad at the front, literally went almost slick bald at that places where i applied it (to the point that it became noticable to other people) but it all came back. I also shed more all over my head because of the propecia, it was tough and it did really get me down, the first 3-4 months were the hardest but 6 months down the line my hair is better than it was an continues to get even better. It was weird i'm hyper sensitive to any changes in my hair and it's true that you are your own worst critic, i suppose i felt better when last month a friend told me that my hair was looking really thick and that i was sporting a justin beiber style look after straightening my hair and styling it to the front, that made me feel good and in another way bad for being compared to beiber! it did make me realise that you will always see your hair worse than others.
In regards to the shedding,It's like everyone says in order to make better hair, the weaker ones have to shed first so shedding is often a good sign, this doesn't stop it being really f*$*ing depressing at the same time...
Stay strong man it will get better again, you just got to give it time, have faith in your treatment, it's agonisingly slow but it does get better!

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Right so just over seven months now of propecia and not much else to report. I think i may be shedding a little bit more at the moment than usual but nothing too drastic, probably 40-60 hairs a day and a lot of the shed hairs are also some of the smaller more colourless hairs so fingers crossed these will cycle back in stronger each time they shed, still not even at the year mark yet so plenty of time to go....

I've noticed there has been a hell of a lot of anti-finasteride posts propping up all over the boards at the moment, i'm not sure why and i'm probably not doing myself any favours wading into this argument but here are my two cents anyway. I'm going to bulletpoint it to save time:

*finasteride changes your hormones, albeit in a minor way but it still does
*There are loads of things we still don't understand about the hormonal changes it can cause, e.g neuroendocrine hormones changes
*Side effect profiles appears low, 2% according to official figures, maybe higher in real life but personally i have yet to get any, and the people i know on finasteride are the same as me, however i completely believe the people saying they have sides including the people who have permanent sides, they should not be ignored and they are an important study group.
*There are plenty of applicable examples in the world of medicine that can be looked upon as similar to finasteride. Anabolic steroids are a great one to pick upon. When given correctly they are great in patients with hormonal deficiencies, muscle wasting with degenerative conditions etc... but when abused they can result (albeit in a small amount of people) in psychosis and psychotic episodes. A small percentage of the people that get psychosis will NEVER recover.
*Taking the above example you can see how changing a hormone profile can cause serious problems i believe this is similar in finasteride, for the vast majority of people it is fine, for some there are sides that disappear upon stopping for others these sides persist. Unfortunately there is now way of knowing which category you fall into and just because you are in one now, it doesn't mean you can't fall into another later
*HOWEVER, the current evidence (both scientific and anecdotal) suggests that the side profile is small and there is plenty of data on 2, 5 and even 10 year profiles of finasteride and its safety
*RAT STUDIES ARE NOT APPLICABLE FOR HUMANS!!! please anyone who quotes them understand they are a guide for further research, not evidence, for example rat poison is (obviously) deadly to rats, smaller dosages are given to humans to treat a number of conditions from atrial fibrillation, to PE's, DVT's to heart valve replacements. They are life saving as well as having a low side effect profile. Rats and humans may both be mammals but we are VERY different.
*For more applicable research if anyone is interested look up the difference between rat and human androgen receptors and properties, i covered in briefly in one of my older posts and there are marked differences hence why effects of finasteride in rats does not translate exactly to humans (although can give us a guide)
*There is a large amount of evidence on the nocebo effect (i wrote about this on a previous post) and there will be a certain amount of side effects that are in peoples heads however, this does not mean all sides are and people who report sides should not be ignored or ridiculed
*Almost the most important point i'm going to write here, no one forces you to take finasteride, we have all taken this medication of our own accord, yes some may have been recommended it by a doctor but no one is putting in down your throat, if you are uncomfortable with it then don't take it!
*I got onto finasteride because i like having my hair, it means a lot to me, i love it when my girlfriend runs her fingers through it, i love it being long and messy, having hair makes me feel good about my appearance, it doesn't define me as a person and if i start to get serious sides i'll take my health over my hair but so long as i'm fine i will continue to take finasteride.
*It works, more in some than others but the evidence suggest that it either helps stop further hair loss or regrows hair, personally i have experienced both so i'm happy.
*When something better comes out, i'll drop finasteride tomorrow, i have no allegiance to it, it's just the best there is. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for replicel, aderans, PG2 blockers or any other of those new things across the horizon.

That's all i can think of at the moment, to anyone on finasteride be sensible to anyone thinking about finasteride, do your research before you get on it.

 

[zeroalpha]

Hey dude, I have to say I'm glad somebody in the medical field is taking a real look at this. Thanks for all your diligent work.

I'm thinking of taking a dive into propecia to lessen/regrow my hair. I'd like some thickening and wouldn't mind keeping my hair for as long as I'm single.

My biggest concerns are the scare stories that I've read. What I'm concerned about is losing my libido and sex drive. My reasoning is that DHT isn't produced by your body for no reason-- so I'm worried about the short/long term effects of this drug.

I've read about how it affects the nerve signaling regions as well as inhibiting the new neurons for hippocampus region. I'd like to know your opinion upon research on things regarding that. That scares me to death, especially that bit about nerve signaling regions. Also have there been any studies with regards to the effect of the DHT inhibitors affecting the other regions too, not juts it's target regions.

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Hey Zeroalpha

I've been meaning to post about his for some time but my finals revision has got in the way, however you asking the question has kinda spurred me to do it now rather than later. I apologise in advance for the length of this post but honestly there will be some good info in this so stick with it:

First in response to your worries about libido and sex drive, yes finasteride can decrease these, i don't think there is any debate about that, there are plenty of people who claim it has done this to them, there are plenty of other people (myself included) who say they have noticed no difference. Unfortunately the only way to know with this is to become a human guinea pig and trial the pill yourself and see what happens.

Second and much more importantly is the effect of finasteride on your brain, again this is a very tricky subject and all i want to do here is point you in the right direction of what to read. In order to get a greater understanding of the role of androgens in the body read this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 76684/#R29

It is a great article that explains what androgens do, not just for sexual development and behaviour but also for neural plasticity, neuroendocrine function and neurodegeneration. In summary there is a link between androgen levels and the following:

*Alzheimers disease
*Spinal bulbar muscular atrophy
*Parkinsons disease (not mentioned in this paper but plenty out there about low test levels and PD)

Several papers have stated that androgen receptors on specific cells directly involved with these diseases prove that androgens are important to prevent them occurring (remember androgens means testosterone as well as DHT). Again it's difficult to comment and the authors admit this as well that, many of the models are mouse and rat models genetically designed to have deficiencies, there is a big difference between reduced levels and absent levels. There are also certain papers that claim that androgens actively contribute to the disease process in AD, so as you can see its a bit of a minefield.
In terms of human studies, there is proof that lower T levels and DHT levels in later life does correlate with AD and PD, however there are a number of other factors that also must be taken into account. The group of 5-alpha reductase deficient people that were the basis for the finasteride research to begin with have no higher rates of neurodegenerative disease than the regular population however, they are a small group and also as i mentioned before having a complete lack for your entire life is different from blocking it late on. To quote the above article directly the author even states that androgen can be both protective or degenerative, they just don't know yet:

"Androgens may serve as neuroprotective agents in males, just as estrogens appear to fulfill this function in females. Under some circumstances, androgens can promote neurodegeneration. Finally, the abuse of androgens by adolescents may cause permanent changes in the brain that interfere with normal function and may ultimately be maladaptive."

A further paper (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 836.x/full), shows that andorgens in mice appear to help regulate neuritin, a compound used for motor neurone growth. Again i am going to directly quote the paper:

"5?-dihydrotestosterone derives from testosterone and is readily formed intracellularly in several androgen target tissues by action of the androgen-regulated enzyme 5?-R (the more active type 2 isoform is highly expressed in androgen-dependent structures) (Wilson et al. 1993). The effects of DHT on neuritin expression levels appear to be relevant for understanding the androgen responsiveness of motor neurones. In situ hybridization has demonstrated that spinal cord motor neurones express a high level of 5?-R 2, similar to those usually found in the prostate (a typical androgen-dependent structure) and several times higher that those normally detectable in the CNS (Poletti et al. 1997a, 2001; Poletti and Martini 1999; Pozzi et al. 2003). Therefore, motor neurones are characterized not only by the presence of AR but also by an enzyme which is able to potentiate the action of circulating androgens through their transformation to more potent derivatives. This study confirms this idea firstly by demonstrating that DHT regulates neuritin expression and neurite outgrowth more effectively than its precursor testosterone and secondly by demonstrating that the trophic effects of testosterone on neurite elongation can be fully blocked by the use of the selective 5?-R 2 inhibitor finasteride."

They go on to say that in certain people a triplet repeat defect in the androgen receptors that results in lower activation may result in an increased incidece of alzheimers and SBMA. Again they state may and they don't know whether or not this means that you could flood the system with androgens but the defective receptor stops them being effective, or that the defective receptor means that androgen response is merely lessened and this results in the disease states.

So, in short, yes, androgens do appear to have an affect on the brain, it could be neurodegenerative, it could be neuroprotective, it could affect memory, it could affect motor neurones, it could just affect hair, the jury is still out on this one. My personal thoughts as i put in a post earlier are that i am going to take propecia until something better comes out, hopefully something like replicel or aderans which will help get the hair back and then i'll drop taking the pill. I don't know what effect this may have when people turn older it could turn out to be like vCJD where the news stated that there was a ticking time bomb and that millions would be affected and nothing really happened, it could turn out that in 30 years time there is an increased rate of AD in people who took long term propecia. Read as much as you can and make the decision yourself, remember ultimately, it's your body and your mind. Is it worth the risk, i think so, others will say no. Don't be swayed by either camp, just read around.

Hope this helps.

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Based on everything i've read i think there are a number of factors that cause problems with finasteride usage. If we leave aside any other problems but sexual side effects, i'll give my spin on each one. The sexual sides seem to be the following:

*erection problems (transient or permanent)
*loss of libido (transient or permanent)
*ejaculation disorders (volume, problems initiating and consistency)
*fertility issues (specifically subfertility)

I think each of these share common features but can have different explanations and before i start i would also like to point out that it is my belief that no man under the age of 21 should consider even touching finasteride, sexual development can extend to the age of 21 and whilst the role of androgens in adults can be debated, the role in growing men (by that i mean under 21 years of age) is very well understood, blocking a vital growth hormone whilst you are still growing.... that's a whole other ballgame. Anyway, on to the problem at hand (and remember these are just my opinions based on the scientific papers i have read):

1) Erection problems: The school of thought seems to be that androgens in the form of T and DHT are used in anything from, construction of normal penile anatomy to functioning venoocclusive mechnisms of the vessels. T deprivation has been proven to cause apoptosis of cells from cavernosal and spongiosal tissues in the penis and administrating androgens can reverse this, however men deficient in 5-alpha-reductase (the study group from the 70's study that gave us finasteride) show normal erections when stimulated despite a lack of DHT. The culprit here I believe is the lower T levels that come with taking finasteride. T is converted to estradiol and DHT, when you block 5AR's then you get more estradiol, as this is not all good news for a male body your body will eventually downregulate T production to prevent overload of estradiol. T is also involved in Nitric Oxide production via NO synthase in the corpus cavernosum in the penis which is vital to maintain and initiate erections, this is why you can give T in some men who have ED to reverse it. In my opinion, the slight reduction in T in some men is enough to push them over the edge and cause erectile dysfunction. In transient cases this is reversed once the cause of the lower androgens is removed (the finasteride) in the permenant cases i believe the hormonal axis is change permenantly and set to a different level.

2) Loss of libido: Again i believe this is largely due to the reduction in T and also to some extent this may be related to the neuroendocrine effect of androgens. I covered a little bit in a previous post about how androgens are related to allopregnanolone and therefore GABA and that this could cause depression and other brain related changes. I believe a lack of T which as we all know causes aggression and increased sex drive in males coupled with a minor depressive effect (in some people) that may be due to an androgen-neuro-hormonal axis may contribute to the loss of libido. Again i believe that this is worse in some than others as they may either have an underlying libido issue which is yet to surface, underlying depressive tendency or naturally low levels of allopregnanolone which are further lowered by finasteride, these may all be reasons for loss of libido. On the other hand it could just be that depression causes loss of libido and maybe the depression is not related to the finasteride but instead related to the psychological impact of hair loss, some people are better/worse at dealing with depression than others (both psychologically and biologically) again it's just my thoughts but this is what i believe.

3) Ejaculation disorders: The evidence shows that in sperm count, volume and concentration at 52 weeks after taking finasteride compared with a baseline are largely unaffected. Sperm motility is believed to be negatively affected but sperm morphology has not been found to be affected. It is widely believed that DHT does not play a large role in spermatogenesis and this falls more to T, however the 'watery ejaculate' that people complain of is probably to do with the effect on the prostate, as finasteride causes a reduction in prostate size (this is what it was developed for) prostatic secretion are probably reduced due to DHT's role in the prostate.

4) Subfertility: Following on from the ejaculation disorders, subfertility was often only found in men who had another underlying fertility problem. When they stopped the finasteride, the fertility went back up. This one is hard for me to comment on because there aren't really any contradicting studies on this, it just seems to say if you have underlying factors so as low sperm count, finasteride will make this worse. Stop it and you'll go back to your norm.

A lot of these problems boil down to an individuals sensitivity to hormonal changes, unfortunately some people can take bigger swings than others and this in my opinion is the culprit for the wide range of variability of side effects that people seem to suffer.

I mentioned the nocebo effect in one of my posts a few pages back, i think this plays a large role aswell. A large trial of 17,313 men looked at the effect of finasteride on patients as part of the prostate cancer prevention trial over 7 years when given a 5mg dosage. The effects were found to be minimal, in fact there is more scaremongering amongst the 1mg propecia takers of finasteride than on the 5mg BPH takers, therefore this has to be taken into account.

Well that's my 2 cents!

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Hey monty, my pleasure with the response, i find this sort of thing interesting anyway so its flattering to be asked my opinion and good to be asked to research stuff by other people.
If you don't mind i'd like to ask you a couple of questions, this is just out of curiosity and feel free to tell me to go away!

1)What was your duta and finasteride history, i.e. when did you start, for how long, when did you stop
2)When did the sides come on and how long did persist for etc...
3)Is there anything you've done that made it better or worse?

Tracking back to the fact that i am also trying to update on my hair, i took another couple of pics with my hair brushed back out of the shower. Again its taken with a halogen bulb overhead and i've tried to make it as similar to the others as possible although now my hair is longer it has got wavier. I can't make up my mind whether i think it looks better or worse. I have let it grow long which could explain a bit as shorter hair does look naturally thicker. I really don't know though, and i'm definitely still not satisfied with my frontal hairline. I think i'm going to try some hair dye as i have plenty of hairs on the hairline but many are colourless, so we'll see if that makes a difference....

Also i had a brief online consultation with the farjo medical group today who do hair transplant's in london, They were incredibly nice and polite and recommended that i had too much hair at the front to really consider doing anything surgical yet and that i should wait at least 18 months on finasteride and possibly 24 before making a decision, however they did state that a frontal transplant is viable if it still felt that way in 2 years. It was nice to hear that and also nice to hear an hair transplant company discouraging their own product.

 

[Man in Space]

Hey, I think your hairline in terms of its shape is actually looking better though i can see that as it is a little longer that may make it feel like its thinner to you. Your going in the right direction to me though

Regards Farjo they are certainly very conservative so if im honest id be surprised if they even operated on you in two years time. There are some great and ethical hair transplant clinics out there would happily fill out your front section now as you do have an otherwise stong head of hair and are responding well to meds. They did give you very sound advice though, in my opinion the longer you leave a hair transplant the better. Still, I dont know about you but just knowing that you could reverse your hairloss in the front there anytime for me at least has taken the anxiety out of the experience of losing hair.

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Thanks man in space, i think we've both sort of reached the same conclusion. I was actually pleased to hear a 'no' to an hair transplant because it means they think i'm not that far down and it is comforting to know that it is a possibility in the future. I wouldn't even consider an hair transplant until at least 2 years of taking propecia (unless i suddenly get a lot worse) as i seem to be having a positive response and a lot of people state they continue to improve even after 2-3 years. My brother who is also on propecia said that his hair still gets better 3 years after taking it and he didn't even notice any difference until 9 months to begin with.
I don't actually want an hair transplant (at least not yet), the plan is to wait and see what happens with replicel and aderans, if these come to fruition in 5 years time to stay on propecia until then hope it gets a little better or at least no worse and then use these options instead.
What about your loss? I seem to remember you stating before that we had a similar type of loss at the front, how have you been doing with the meds?

*Also i'm now starting to realise how difficult it is to try and take a photo of the same part of the hair under the same light... its a nightmare!

 

[lapsedpacifist]

Hello Relax I'm Hilarious... I'm an avid reader of your thread cos of all the great scientific stuff you post on it. Cheers its great. I like to read some of the research you quote on here when I get depressed about how long treatments can take.

You said:

"...the plan is to wait and see what happens with replicel and aderans, if these come to fruition in 5 years time..."

In your opinion, do you think five years is likely? Would be great if so

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Hey lapsedpacifist, thanks very much for the kind words! That was kind of my aim for this whole experience, to document what i was doing and also to try and get across as much info that i could find to make the decision about what to do when considering meds, it's really encouraging to hear that it helped you when you feel low about your hair.
In regards to my plan, i really don't know about the timeframes at the moment. Realistically a lot will hinge on what replicel say at the end of april with regards to their phase I trial. If it does show success and the phase II trial also proves successful then i can easily see a big pharma firm picking this up. They quoted a time of around 2015 for general release, i'd love for that to be the case but realistically i can see another couple of years being added to that to make the procedure more mainstream. Again with aderans, they seemed to have the problems with the legal side of their business which seems to have resolved, their results were very encouraging and they state a similar timeline of between 2014-2015, however as with replicel to actually having a product that i can get injected into my scalp i'd estimate that 2016-2017 would probably be more realistic. Of course i'd love to be proved wrong and see a finished procedure in 2015 but i'd rather be pessimistic and pleasantly surprised than too optimistic and crushingly disappointed...
The thing that encourages me is that propecia does have a proven efficacy of at least 5 years in some studies, 10 years in others and there is also plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest it lasts even longer. Yes some people experience loss after 3-4 good years of gains but realistically i think even just maintenance for 5 years on propecia is a reasonable goal to assume until the other therapies are hopefully released.

Monty - Thanks for the reply, your story really is quite complex! I'd agree with your assessment that something in your HPG axis has been completely thrown awry. It seems reasonable that the clomid would have that effect although it does seem odd that after extended treatment you wouldn't have reset. In regards to your clomid test, that seems like a good idea (although i do believe you should consult an endocrinologist as well) my advice would be to taper on and then taper off i.e. 5 weeks 12.5mg, 3 weeks 25mg, 1 week 50mg, 3 weeks 25mg, and then 5 weeks 12.5mg, also consider adding D-aspartic acid and Tribulus Terrestris, two supplements that have scant evidence but some have suggested that they could raise FSH and LH, do some reading on these and you'll see what i mean. I personally believe with a pyramid structure of med like the one i put above, you'll get the return to normal levels you saw from clomid last time on the upswing then as you bring the levels slowly down hopefully your body should make up for the loss of the medications with it's own production. Again it's just a thought, what do you think?
Also, you previously mentioned depression and low sex drive with dutasteride, have you ever had any of the other following symptoms since stopping:
Light headness/faintness, high blood pressure, joint pain, sudden bouts of aggression, excessive sleep, slow thought processing speed or forgetfulness?
I know it sounds like an abstract list but if you've had any of the following you may have upset you dopamine levels, if (and it's a big if) this is the case a couple of natural supplements you might want to look into are tyrosine or l-dopa, again take a look online at the research and consider these.

 

[Relax Im hilarious]

Hey monty, i'd be really interested to see how the clomid works out for you over the next few months and i've got my fingers crossed this gives you the 'reset' that you were looking for. Good luck and keep us all posted!