dinosaur_sr
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Nice job on the research man - very encouraging to see how long you can remain above baseline!
Relax, I'm hilarious's story
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Heretogrow
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Awesome thread mate! You have done a lot of research thats very beneficial to all of us! Hows your progress going? Any growth in the front?
Relax Im hilarious
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Hey heretogrow, thanks for the support. My aim on this thread was always just to put up my own experiences and try and put up as much research as possible on the important points so people can make an informed decision. I know how important it was to me to read others stories and how much it helped so as we're all in the same boat i just want to try and do the same.
Its been a good couple of weeks for me. I'm just coming up to the end of my 4th months of propecia and no bad things to report and no side effects. Also for the first time i've noticed dozens of little hair sprout at the hairline. They are vellus hairs at the moment so they make no aesthetic difference but i'm hoping that they will thicken up with continued propecia use. Fingers crossed!
Also even though i never had a problem with my crown or top of head, i think it has thickened up a bit. I can't say this for sure and i haven't cut my hair in two months so it could just be that but it appears thicker. I will be posting pictures at the six month to compare to the pictures that i posted at the three month mark so that will be the time to see if there has been any cosmetic change, but again, fingers crossed.
Right now onto the science bit. I know this has been discussed by others but i wanted to go over it again. In september 2011 the first 10 year study in finasteride was published:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 441.x/full
Rather than paraphrase because i think it is important for everyone to read, i will cut and past the salient bits into this post. In my opinion this study is pretty good news for everyone and my only two concerns are the relatively small study size (118 men) and the fact that there is no placebo control group. However there are no conflict of interest or external funding sources and the research took place at the Department of Dermatology and Plastic Surgery, Sapienza Medical School of Rome, Italy (hence, as this paper is translated from italian there are some grammatical errors). So here goes:
"Finasteride 1 mg is indicated for the treatment of men with androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia). However, more than 5 years efficacy and safety has not been previously reported. To assess the efficacy over 10 years in different age groups of men with Androgenetic Alopecia. 118 men, between 20 and 61 years, with Androgenetic Alopecia receiving finasteride (1 mg/day), were enrolled in this uncontrolled study. Efficacy evaluation was assessed with standardized global photographs at baseline, 1, 2, 5 and 10 years. Statistical analysis was made using frequency tables and evaluating the chi-square index with its p-value. Better improvements are observed in patients older than 30 years (42.8% aged between 20 and 30 years did not improve also after 10 years) or with higher Androgenetic Alopecia grades (58.9% for Androgenetic Alopecia grade IV and 45.4% for Androgenetic Alopecia grade V had the first improvement just after 1 year). In 21% of cases, the treatment continuation beyond 5 years provided better results. Side effects were referred by 6% of the patients; nevertheless, some of them went on with treatment because of the great results. In our opinion, the result after the first year can help in predicting the effectiveness of the treatment. Its efficacy was not reduced as time goes on; in fact, a big proportion of subjects unchanged after 1 year, improved later on, maintaining a positive trend.
Study population: One hundred eighteen men, aged between 20 and 61 years, in good physical and mental health, with mild to moderate Androgenetic Alopecia (grade II–V according to the modified Norwood-Hamilton scale) were enrolled. Objective examination, pull test, anamnestic data led to the diagnosis. Exclusion criteria at study entry were significant abnormalities on screening physical examination or laboratory evaluation, prior surgical correction of scalp hair loss, topical minoxidil use within 1 year, use of drugs with androgenic or antiandrogenic properties, use of finasteride or other 5?-reductase inhibitors, or hair loss from causes other than Androgenetic Alopecia. Alterations in hair styling and dyeing of the hair were not allowed during the study. Institutional review board approval was obtained each year prior to entering subjects into each study. All men were provided written consent, and the protocol and consent forms were approved by local review boards. The use of any proprietary sampling contact information (e.g., mailing address) was approved by its owner. All patients were treated with finasteride 1 mg/day. They were evaluated by using a color standardized macrophotograph (Canfield Imaging Systems, Fairfield, NJ) before starting the treatment (baseline), after 1, 2, 5, and 10 years of treatment.
At each follow-up, the photos were examined by the same three experts (two dermatologists experienced in assessment of changes in scalp hair growth and one junior dermatologist). Together, the experts assigned to each subject a value (a score) from ?3 (greatly decreased compared to the baseline) to +3 (greatly increased compared to the baseline); a value of 0 specified an unchanged hair state.
Preliminary analysis: Only five patients of 118 abandoned the study during the years because of adverse reactions. Preliminary analysis considered the frequencies of the enrolled patients over the years and the distribution of their initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade in different age classes (20–30 years old; 31–40; >41). Then, the year of the first improvement was identified and related to age classes and the initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade. A third analysis compared the treatment response after 1 year with each of the remaining follow-ups; in this case, we reduced the scores to only three values: improved (for all the scores greater than 0), unchanged, or worsened (for the scores less than 0). We considered the numbers of patients classified in each of these groups for each follow-up, and in case of a significant relation (revealed by using the chi-square index), we built a transition table filled with the empirical probabilities to have a given result after 1 year and those possible in the i-th follow-up.
Persistence and further improvement analysis: The idea of this analysis was to measure the persistence, or not, of the hair growth after 5 years; we compared in details the scores after 5 years with those at 10 years. We identified three groups of patients: the ones that benefited from the 10 years treatment (those with a score at 10 years greater to the one at 5 years), the unchanged but improved (those with the same score, at 5 and 10 years, greater or equal to 0), and the worsened (the remaining ones). We described their significant characteristics using age and initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade.
In correspondence of each follow-up, the three dermatologists jointly assessed the current macrophotograph with the one taken at the beginning of the treatment, by considering both vertex and frontal regions. After their agreement on the results, they assigned to the patient a numeric values from ?3 (greatly decreased compared with the baseline) to +3 (greatly increased compared to the baseline). In the vertex photographs, finasteride showed significantly great improvement at 10 years. In the frontal region, the improvement was less evident.
Preliminary analysis. One patient abandoned the treatment before the first year (because of adverse reactions); just four more before the 10 years follow-up. In our sample, we observed a strong relationship between the initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade and the age classes; in particular, the grade growth with the age class (the chi-square index is 26.6 and the associated probability is less than 0.05). The year of first improvement is directly related with both the age classes (chi square = 9.16 with a p-value less than 0.05) and the initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade (chi-square = 9.51 with a p-value less 0.05). We observed that the patients older than 30 years had better responses than the younger ones (53.6% of patients with age between 31 and 40 years showed an improvement of hair growth at the first follow-up, 47.4% of those greater than 41 years had an improvement at the same time). Furthermore, there is a great part of young patients, 42.8%, that do not show an improvement also after 10 years.
The dependency between the results obtained after 1 year with those observed in the next years tends to significantly enforce; this allow us to consider that the first year can be important to determine the effectiveness of the therapy. For those patients (114) that had the first and the third follow-up (after 5 years), about the 50% (55 individuals) showed a hair growth after the first year of treatment. For these, the empirical probability to maintain the hair growth was 0.45, whereas the probability to have an improvement at 5 years was 0.53 (that is to say that almost one of two patients with an improvement at the first follow-up will show a better improvement after 5 years). For those 52% with unchanged or worse results at the first year (59 individuals), just the 25% (15) will have an improvement at 5 years
After 10 years, the patients with an improvement at the first year (54 of 113, one less than in respect to the previous analysis because one treatment discontinuation) have an empirical probability of 0.04 to have worse results; otherwise, they tend to maintain the hair growth (with a probability equals to 0.28), or more probably, to improve (with a probability equals to 0.68). For those with unchanged or worse results at the first years (52.2%, given by (48 + 11)/113 = 59/113), only 32.2% (19) will have an improvement at 10 years.
It is important to consider that the majority of the patients with no improvements at the first follow-up could show just an unchanged result (in respect of the baseline) after 10 years.
Persistence and further improvement analysis showed the details on the transition probabilities between the scores at 5 and 10 years follow-up; these were significantly important (chi-square = 338.65 with an associated p-value less than 0.05). On 113 patients, the ones that benefited from the 10 years treatment were 24 (21%), whereas the no change were 74 (65%), and only 15 (14%) were the worsened.
Fifty percent of the patients improved after 10 years of treatment have grade IV initial Androgenetic Alopecia and tends to be significant older than the others (37 years old against 33 of the other patients); the unchanged but improved and the worsened are not age-related and have low grades of initial Androgenetic Alopecia.
Adverse reactions: Side effects were observed on 5.9% (7) patients. Libido and ejaculated semen reduction plus erection problems were reported only by one patient, which interrupted the treatment just at the beginning of the treatment.
The most frequent side effect was the libido reduction (5.1%) of the ejaculated semen amount.
Gynecomastia and depression were not reported at all. None of our patients had change in the spermatogenesis process, but it is important to point out that in patients with other problems contributing to infertility (varicocele), the negative influence of finasteride, noted by others, might be amplified.
Androgenetic Alopecia in young males is a psychosociological problem and the number of affected people is increasing. To date, this study represents the longest (over 10 years) reported uncontrolled study in men with MPHL. Our results underlined that finasteride 1 mg/day administration produced significant and durable increases in hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia. Presumably, under the influence of finasteride, whose blood concentration is not going to be reduced over time, previously miniaturized scalp hairs continued to become longer, thicker, and more cosmetically significant during 10 years treatment because it is still working as a selective type, the II 5?-reductase inhibitor. Since miniaturization of scalp hairs in Androgenetic Alopecia develops over a period of many years, it is not surprising that reversal of this process may also take a number of years.
Comparing different age groups, our study underlined that subjects older than 30 years showed a better hair growth in the long term. These findings are in agreement with that of a previous study in men with early-onset Androgenetic Alopecia.
Our results showed also that in contrast with what usually observed with other medications, finasteride efficacy is not going to be reduced over time, especially in the older group since it is well known what happen to androgens in that age in men subjects.
It is interesting to point out that of the 113 patients followed for 10 years, only 14% worsened, whereas the remaining (86%) had benefits (21%) from the treatment duration or (65%) persisted in their improvements. Patients not improved at all after one year (i.e., with a significant decreasing in their hair growth) could be considered not respondent to a long-term therapy.
Side effects were observed on 5.9% (7) patients, but these effects were not age related. Some of the patients who experienced side effects did not drop out of the treatment because of perceived good results. As in a previous study, finasteride 1 mg was generally well tolerated and long-term treatment led to sustained improvement in treated men.
In conclusion, finasteride is a safe and effective treatment for controlling male pattern baldness with long-term daily use even in men over the age of 40 years. The satisfactory clinical results, the few side effects observed, and the lack of alternative medications, led us to consider finasteride an effective treatment especially if taken in the early stages of Androgenetic Alopecia."
Its been a good couple of weeks for me. I'm just coming up to the end of my 4th months of propecia and no bad things to report and no side effects. Also for the first time i've noticed dozens of little hair sprout at the hairline. They are vellus hairs at the moment so they make no aesthetic difference but i'm hoping that they will thicken up with continued propecia use. Fingers crossed!
Also even though i never had a problem with my crown or top of head, i think it has thickened up a bit. I can't say this for sure and i haven't cut my hair in two months so it could just be that but it appears thicker. I will be posting pictures at the six month to compare to the pictures that i posted at the three month mark so that will be the time to see if there has been any cosmetic change, but again, fingers crossed.
Right now onto the science bit. I know this has been discussed by others but i wanted to go over it again. In september 2011 the first 10 year study in finasteride was published:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 441.x/full
Rather than paraphrase because i think it is important for everyone to read, i will cut and past the salient bits into this post. In my opinion this study is pretty good news for everyone and my only two concerns are the relatively small study size (118 men) and the fact that there is no placebo control group. However there are no conflict of interest or external funding sources and the research took place at the Department of Dermatology and Plastic Surgery, Sapienza Medical School of Rome, Italy (hence, as this paper is translated from italian there are some grammatical errors). So here goes:
"Finasteride 1 mg is indicated for the treatment of men with androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia). However, more than 5 years efficacy and safety has not been previously reported. To assess the efficacy over 10 years in different age groups of men with Androgenetic Alopecia. 118 men, between 20 and 61 years, with Androgenetic Alopecia receiving finasteride (1 mg/day), were enrolled in this uncontrolled study. Efficacy evaluation was assessed with standardized global photographs at baseline, 1, 2, 5 and 10 years. Statistical analysis was made using frequency tables and evaluating the chi-square index with its p-value. Better improvements are observed in patients older than 30 years (42.8% aged between 20 and 30 years did not improve also after 10 years) or with higher Androgenetic Alopecia grades (58.9% for Androgenetic Alopecia grade IV and 45.4% for Androgenetic Alopecia grade V had the first improvement just after 1 year). In 21% of cases, the treatment continuation beyond 5 years provided better results. Side effects were referred by 6% of the patients; nevertheless, some of them went on with treatment because of the great results. In our opinion, the result after the first year can help in predicting the effectiveness of the treatment. Its efficacy was not reduced as time goes on; in fact, a big proportion of subjects unchanged after 1 year, improved later on, maintaining a positive trend.
Study population: One hundred eighteen men, aged between 20 and 61 years, in good physical and mental health, with mild to moderate Androgenetic Alopecia (grade II–V according to the modified Norwood-Hamilton scale) were enrolled. Objective examination, pull test, anamnestic data led to the diagnosis. Exclusion criteria at study entry were significant abnormalities on screening physical examination or laboratory evaluation, prior surgical correction of scalp hair loss, topical minoxidil use within 1 year, use of drugs with androgenic or antiandrogenic properties, use of finasteride or other 5?-reductase inhibitors, or hair loss from causes other than Androgenetic Alopecia. Alterations in hair styling and dyeing of the hair were not allowed during the study. Institutional review board approval was obtained each year prior to entering subjects into each study. All men were provided written consent, and the protocol and consent forms were approved by local review boards. The use of any proprietary sampling contact information (e.g., mailing address) was approved by its owner. All patients were treated with finasteride 1 mg/day. They were evaluated by using a color standardized macrophotograph (Canfield Imaging Systems, Fairfield, NJ) before starting the treatment (baseline), after 1, 2, 5, and 10 years of treatment.
At each follow-up, the photos were examined by the same three experts (two dermatologists experienced in assessment of changes in scalp hair growth and one junior dermatologist). Together, the experts assigned to each subject a value (a score) from ?3 (greatly decreased compared to the baseline) to +3 (greatly increased compared to the baseline); a value of 0 specified an unchanged hair state.
Preliminary analysis: Only five patients of 118 abandoned the study during the years because of adverse reactions. Preliminary analysis considered the frequencies of the enrolled patients over the years and the distribution of their initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade in different age classes (20–30 years old; 31–40; >41). Then, the year of the first improvement was identified and related to age classes and the initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade. A third analysis compared the treatment response after 1 year with each of the remaining follow-ups; in this case, we reduced the scores to only three values: improved (for all the scores greater than 0), unchanged, or worsened (for the scores less than 0). We considered the numbers of patients classified in each of these groups for each follow-up, and in case of a significant relation (revealed by using the chi-square index), we built a transition table filled with the empirical probabilities to have a given result after 1 year and those possible in the i-th follow-up.
Persistence and further improvement analysis: The idea of this analysis was to measure the persistence, or not, of the hair growth after 5 years; we compared in details the scores after 5 years with those at 10 years. We identified three groups of patients: the ones that benefited from the 10 years treatment (those with a score at 10 years greater to the one at 5 years), the unchanged but improved (those with the same score, at 5 and 10 years, greater or equal to 0), and the worsened (the remaining ones). We described their significant characteristics using age and initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade.
In correspondence of each follow-up, the three dermatologists jointly assessed the current macrophotograph with the one taken at the beginning of the treatment, by considering both vertex and frontal regions. After their agreement on the results, they assigned to the patient a numeric values from ?3 (greatly decreased compared with the baseline) to +3 (greatly increased compared to the baseline). In the vertex photographs, finasteride showed significantly great improvement at 10 years. In the frontal region, the improvement was less evident.
Preliminary analysis. One patient abandoned the treatment before the first year (because of adverse reactions); just four more before the 10 years follow-up. In our sample, we observed a strong relationship between the initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade and the age classes; in particular, the grade growth with the age class (the chi-square index is 26.6 and the associated probability is less than 0.05). The year of first improvement is directly related with both the age classes (chi square = 9.16 with a p-value less than 0.05) and the initial Androgenetic Alopecia grade (chi-square = 9.51 with a p-value less 0.05). We observed that the patients older than 30 years had better responses than the younger ones (53.6% of patients with age between 31 and 40 years showed an improvement of hair growth at the first follow-up, 47.4% of those greater than 41 years had an improvement at the same time). Furthermore, there is a great part of young patients, 42.8%, that do not show an improvement also after 10 years.
The dependency between the results obtained after 1 year with those observed in the next years tends to significantly enforce; this allow us to consider that the first year can be important to determine the effectiveness of the therapy. For those patients (114) that had the first and the third follow-up (after 5 years), about the 50% (55 individuals) showed a hair growth after the first year of treatment. For these, the empirical probability to maintain the hair growth was 0.45, whereas the probability to have an improvement at 5 years was 0.53 (that is to say that almost one of two patients with an improvement at the first follow-up will show a better improvement after 5 years). For those 52% with unchanged or worse results at the first year (59 individuals), just the 25% (15) will have an improvement at 5 years
After 10 years, the patients with an improvement at the first year (54 of 113, one less than in respect to the previous analysis because one treatment discontinuation) have an empirical probability of 0.04 to have worse results; otherwise, they tend to maintain the hair growth (with a probability equals to 0.28), or more probably, to improve (with a probability equals to 0.68). For those with unchanged or worse results at the first years (52.2%, given by (48 + 11)/113 = 59/113), only 32.2% (19) will have an improvement at 10 years.
It is important to consider that the majority of the patients with no improvements at the first follow-up could show just an unchanged result (in respect of the baseline) after 10 years.
Persistence and further improvement analysis showed the details on the transition probabilities between the scores at 5 and 10 years follow-up; these were significantly important (chi-square = 338.65 with an associated p-value less than 0.05). On 113 patients, the ones that benefited from the 10 years treatment were 24 (21%), whereas the no change were 74 (65%), and only 15 (14%) were the worsened.
Fifty percent of the patients improved after 10 years of treatment have grade IV initial Androgenetic Alopecia and tends to be significant older than the others (37 years old against 33 of the other patients); the unchanged but improved and the worsened are not age-related and have low grades of initial Androgenetic Alopecia.
Adverse reactions: Side effects were observed on 5.9% (7) patients. Libido and ejaculated semen reduction plus erection problems were reported only by one patient, which interrupted the treatment just at the beginning of the treatment.
The most frequent side effect was the libido reduction (5.1%) of the ejaculated semen amount.
Gynecomastia and depression were not reported at all. None of our patients had change in the spermatogenesis process, but it is important to point out that in patients with other problems contributing to infertility (varicocele), the negative influence of finasteride, noted by others, might be amplified.
Androgenetic Alopecia in young males is a psychosociological problem and the number of affected people is increasing. To date, this study represents the longest (over 10 years) reported uncontrolled study in men with MPHL. Our results underlined that finasteride 1 mg/day administration produced significant and durable increases in hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia. Presumably, under the influence of finasteride, whose blood concentration is not going to be reduced over time, previously miniaturized scalp hairs continued to become longer, thicker, and more cosmetically significant during 10 years treatment because it is still working as a selective type, the II 5?-reductase inhibitor. Since miniaturization of scalp hairs in Androgenetic Alopecia develops over a period of many years, it is not surprising that reversal of this process may also take a number of years.
Comparing different age groups, our study underlined that subjects older than 30 years showed a better hair growth in the long term. These findings are in agreement with that of a previous study in men with early-onset Androgenetic Alopecia.
Our results showed also that in contrast with what usually observed with other medications, finasteride efficacy is not going to be reduced over time, especially in the older group since it is well known what happen to androgens in that age in men subjects.
It is interesting to point out that of the 113 patients followed for 10 years, only 14% worsened, whereas the remaining (86%) had benefits (21%) from the treatment duration or (65%) persisted in their improvements. Patients not improved at all after one year (i.e., with a significant decreasing in their hair growth) could be considered not respondent to a long-term therapy.
Side effects were observed on 5.9% (7) patients, but these effects were not age related. Some of the patients who experienced side effects did not drop out of the treatment because of perceived good results. As in a previous study, finasteride 1 mg was generally well tolerated and long-term treatment led to sustained improvement in treated men.
In conclusion, finasteride is a safe and effective treatment for controlling male pattern baldness with long-term daily use even in men over the age of 40 years. The satisfactory clinical results, the few side effects observed, and the lack of alternative medications, led us to consider finasteride an effective treatment especially if taken in the early stages of Androgenetic Alopecia."
It's an interesting read, sure, but I'm still glad that I use dutasteride, cause finasteride doesn't seem to work as well for us younger dudes. Or so it says. But cause of budgeting problems, I'll have to switch over soon anyways... Good luck with your treatment to, and please keep posting!
Relax Im hilarious
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Hey deadlocks. I agree with you, from what i've read from others experiences in terms of actual regrowth, dutasteride is better and it does also seem to work better in young guys as well.
My only reservation is purely the long term effects. Due to the lack of studies of dutasteride blocking both type I and type II 5ar, it's a little hard to predict what will happen over an extended treatment period. As long as finasteride is effective i'll stick to it and if it losses its effectiveness then i'll consider stepping it up and switching to dutasteride. Hopefully within the next 5-10 years there will be something else on the market anyway (replicel etc...) and we can do away with the pill a day treatment, although i'm not banking on it! Good luck with your treatments and i hope that the switchover to finasteride works for you.
My only reservation is purely the long term effects. Due to the lack of studies of dutasteride blocking both type I and type II 5ar, it's a little hard to predict what will happen over an extended treatment period. As long as finasteride is effective i'll stick to it and if it losses its effectiveness then i'll consider stepping it up and switching to dutasteride. Hopefully within the next 5-10 years there will be something else on the market anyway (replicel etc...) and we can do away with the pill a day treatment, although i'm not banking on it! Good luck with your treatments and i hope that the switchover to finasteride works for you.
antman
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hey 'Relax' thanks for the posts. i like your research. i really wanted to ask if you can have a look at this site and see if it is authentic. it looks like a medical report but the info seems a bit different.
http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/ar ... iveid=7950
if you don't wanna go to the site, that's fine; this is the part that i was interested in:
The maximum effect of daily doses of dutasteride on the reduction of DHT is dose dependent and is observed within 1 to 2 weeks. After 1 and 2 weeks of daily dosing with dutasteride 0.5 mg, median serum DHT concentrations were reduced by 85% and 90%, respectively. In patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) treated with dutasteride 0.5 mg/day for
4 years, the median decrease in serum DHT was 94% at 1 year, 93% at 2 years, and 95% at both 3 and 4 years. The median increase in serum testosterone was 19% at both 1 and 2 years, 26% at 3 years, and 22% at 4 years, but the mean and median levels remained within the physiologic range.
having an extra 19-26% serum T. that seems a lot to me; have you heard in the medical community about what effects that might have?
Thanks and hopefully u'll c some regrowth with propecia
http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/ar ... iveid=7950
if you don't wanna go to the site, that's fine; this is the part that i was interested in:
The maximum effect of daily doses of dutasteride on the reduction of DHT is dose dependent and is observed within 1 to 2 weeks. After 1 and 2 weeks of daily dosing with dutasteride 0.5 mg, median serum DHT concentrations were reduced by 85% and 90%, respectively. In patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) treated with dutasteride 0.5 mg/day for
4 years, the median decrease in serum DHT was 94% at 1 year, 93% at 2 years, and 95% at both 3 and 4 years. The median increase in serum testosterone was 19% at both 1 and 2 years, 26% at 3 years, and 22% at 4 years, but the mean and median levels remained within the physiologic range.
having an extra 19-26% serum T. that seems a lot to me; have you heard in the medical community about what effects that might have?
Thanks and hopefully u'll c some regrowth with propecia
Relax Im hilarious
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Hi antman
The site your referring to is linked to the NLM - the national library of medicine which is part of the national institute of health in the USA. The content is regulated and updated by the FDA so the actual info itself is trustworthy. Basically it is just an extended version of the info sheet you get in a medication packet that is avaliable to the public so you can see what it does without having to buy the meds themselves.
In terms of the increase of serum T, this is a tricky one. It can get quite subjective as officially normal range of serum testosterone can sit anywhere between 300-1200ng/dl, this can obviously slightly skew results when it comes to testing and percentages, that’s why they advise getting some bloods done pre-treatment to compare afterwards and see what your increase is.
In regards to your actual question about raised serum T, fortunately there has been two nice test groups of men who we can use as a control group to see what increased T does to the body. That is the bodybuilder as they take exogenous T and this raised the serum T levels and the men who have taken 5mg finasteride as an androgen blocker for BPH. I know finasteride is not the same as dutasteride but finasteride users have an increase in serum T as well just to a lesser extent. I have included a list below, this is a comprehensive list and many of these will not apply to the average finasteride/dutasteride taker and is more appropriate for bodybuilders who seriously overindulge in testosterone but for the sake of completeness i'll include all of them. Also remember that there is a difference between excess testosterone in those taking testosterone for hormone problems/bodybuilders and those increasing it as a side effect to taking an androgen blocker. I'll tackle each one and try to explain why it occurs:
Weight gain - this is believed to be caused by excess appetite and also in the case of androgen blockers because the T can be converted to estradiol, hence why you may hear that some guys complain of putting on weight when take finasteride and dutasteride especially around their waist (A characteristic pattern of weight gain in females and caused by hormones such as estradiol)
Sleep apena - this has been reported as a side effect of excess T, but studies seem to show that even though sleep patterns may change, there are no important negative effects
An increased red blood cell count - Excess testosterone is known to increase not only the mass of the red blood cells but also the haemoglobin levels, this has the potential to lead to strokes or other thromboembolic problems (DVT, PE etc...) but this tends to be a problem for older men receiving T replacement therapy and i've never heard of it being a problem in androgen blockers.
Increased acne - T causes enlargement of the sebaceous glands, therefore more T can mean acne. This is subjective as acne is caused by a chronic infection by propionibacterium and some people are prone to it and some not. If you had acne before, extra T may make it worse/flare up again.
Increased aggression/mood swings - This is because as the primary male hormones, these are the characteristics that makes us men. I won't go into the neurological cascade of why (because it's long and boring) but basically more T = more aggression.
Liver disease - This tends to be a problem in those taking testosterone replacement. I personally have never heard of this being a problem in those with naturally higher T or those who raise it via androgen blockers but you never know.
Infertility - Sperm production is dependent of testosterone. There is a feedback loop called the HPG axis that regulates sperm production based on testosterone, FSH, LH and GnRH levels (amongst others). If T is given externally the testes stop making their own T and therefore stop making sperm. However this is important in patients given external T. There are no reports of fertility or spermatogenesis problems in men taking androgen blockers (except those with underlying problems) like finasteride or dutasteride as this is not external testosterone replacement. However it is conceivable that finasteride or dutasteride could cause a reduction in sperm production although this would not effect normal fertility.
Heart problems - excess T causes muscle growth. The heart is a muscle, this is why bodybuilders have heart attacks. However, once again this is a problem for T that is given external. Hypothetically speaking i suppose permanently increased T levels could cause minor heart hypertrophy (enlargement) in men taking finasteride/dutasteride but if the T levels sit within normals range i wouldn't imagine it would have that large an effect. Heart problems are also linked with increased blood cell counts etc... as explained earlier.
Prostate enlargement and prostate cancer - Excess T can cause prostate enlargement and prostate cancer as can excess DHT. However in the case of finasteride/dutasteride you are actively blocking DHT and it is used to treat prostate enlargement. The excess T could (and i stress could) be a factor in the slightly increased incidence in high grade prostate cancer that has been reported in those taking finasteride but again the jury is out on this one, some people say it reduces prostate cancer over the long term some say it can increase risk long term. The real answer is we don't know over a 30-40 year period as it hasn't been around that long. The evidence says that for 20 year periods of men taking 5mg finasteride that there is no or little increased risk but as for dutasteride no one knows.
Hope this helps
The site your referring to is linked to the NLM - the national library of medicine which is part of the national institute of health in the USA. The content is regulated and updated by the FDA so the actual info itself is trustworthy. Basically it is just an extended version of the info sheet you get in a medication packet that is avaliable to the public so you can see what it does without having to buy the meds themselves.
In terms of the increase of serum T, this is a tricky one. It can get quite subjective as officially normal range of serum testosterone can sit anywhere between 300-1200ng/dl, this can obviously slightly skew results when it comes to testing and percentages, that’s why they advise getting some bloods done pre-treatment to compare afterwards and see what your increase is.
In regards to your actual question about raised serum T, fortunately there has been two nice test groups of men who we can use as a control group to see what increased T does to the body. That is the bodybuilder as they take exogenous T and this raised the serum T levels and the men who have taken 5mg finasteride as an androgen blocker for BPH. I know finasteride is not the same as dutasteride but finasteride users have an increase in serum T as well just to a lesser extent. I have included a list below, this is a comprehensive list and many of these will not apply to the average finasteride/dutasteride taker and is more appropriate for bodybuilders who seriously overindulge in testosterone but for the sake of completeness i'll include all of them. Also remember that there is a difference between excess testosterone in those taking testosterone for hormone problems/bodybuilders and those increasing it as a side effect to taking an androgen blocker. I'll tackle each one and try to explain why it occurs:
Weight gain - this is believed to be caused by excess appetite and also in the case of androgen blockers because the T can be converted to estradiol, hence why you may hear that some guys complain of putting on weight when take finasteride and dutasteride especially around their waist (A characteristic pattern of weight gain in females and caused by hormones such as estradiol)
Sleep apena - this has been reported as a side effect of excess T, but studies seem to show that even though sleep patterns may change, there are no important negative effects
An increased red blood cell count - Excess testosterone is known to increase not only the mass of the red blood cells but also the haemoglobin levels, this has the potential to lead to strokes or other thromboembolic problems (DVT, PE etc...) but this tends to be a problem for older men receiving T replacement therapy and i've never heard of it being a problem in androgen blockers.
Increased acne - T causes enlargement of the sebaceous glands, therefore more T can mean acne. This is subjective as acne is caused by a chronic infection by propionibacterium and some people are prone to it and some not. If you had acne before, extra T may make it worse/flare up again.
Increased aggression/mood swings - This is because as the primary male hormones, these are the characteristics that makes us men. I won't go into the neurological cascade of why (because it's long and boring) but basically more T = more aggression.
Liver disease - This tends to be a problem in those taking testosterone replacement. I personally have never heard of this being a problem in those with naturally higher T or those who raise it via androgen blockers but you never know.
Infertility - Sperm production is dependent of testosterone. There is a feedback loop called the HPG axis that regulates sperm production based on testosterone, FSH, LH and GnRH levels (amongst others). If T is given externally the testes stop making their own T and therefore stop making sperm. However this is important in patients given external T. There are no reports of fertility or spermatogenesis problems in men taking androgen blockers (except those with underlying problems) like finasteride or dutasteride as this is not external testosterone replacement. However it is conceivable that finasteride or dutasteride could cause a reduction in sperm production although this would not effect normal fertility.
Heart problems - excess T causes muscle growth. The heart is a muscle, this is why bodybuilders have heart attacks. However, once again this is a problem for T that is given external. Hypothetically speaking i suppose permanently increased T levels could cause minor heart hypertrophy (enlargement) in men taking finasteride/dutasteride but if the T levels sit within normals range i wouldn't imagine it would have that large an effect. Heart problems are also linked with increased blood cell counts etc... as explained earlier.
Prostate enlargement and prostate cancer - Excess T can cause prostate enlargement and prostate cancer as can excess DHT. However in the case of finasteride/dutasteride you are actively blocking DHT and it is used to treat prostate enlargement. The excess T could (and i stress could) be a factor in the slightly increased incidence in high grade prostate cancer that has been reported in those taking finasteride but again the jury is out on this one, some people say it reduces prostate cancer over the long term some say it can increase risk long term. The real answer is we don't know over a 30-40 year period as it hasn't been around that long. The evidence says that for 20 year periods of men taking 5mg finasteride that there is no or little increased risk but as for dutasteride no one knows.
Hope this helps
Relax Im hilarious
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5 months (and half a week) into propecia now and loads of little hairs sprouting up over my hairline and behind the hairline. Maybe they are popping up over other parts of the head but i can't see because other hair is in the way. As i mentioned in one of my previous posts most of them are still small and colourless so they make no real impact cosmetically but i have read in a lot of peoples stories that this is how they see the hair regrowth start, slow and colourless and then over the course of the next year they thicken up. I'm going through loads of ups and downs though over the past few weeks, the little hairs growing have given me a boost but sometimes i stare at my hair and think its worse, other times better. It frustrating to say the least. My shedding is still pretty constant and not that bad i feel. It varies from about 20-50 hairs a day.
One other thing that i've found i'm doing that i never did pre-hairloss was stare at other guys hairlines. I know it sounds really weird but you do tend to see how others hair is doing, especially those of the same age as yourself.
Other news that seems encouraging is the whole replicel trial. They are reporting their results in april and going to the next phase of their trials in august this year which is using 100 people to judge optimal dosages etc.... Not to be too optimistic, but if they produce decent results (and by decent i mean something like 20% regrowth which is better than the gold standard propecia at the moment) it will be great news for everyone and hopefully we will have another good thing for hair loss by some time as early as 2015.
On to a bit of science. Everyone talks about the big three with finasteride being and antiandrogen, minoxidil being the growth stimulator and ketocazole being another mild (and topical) antiandrogen. I found that ketocazole didn't really work for me as it made my scalp itch but i would recommend it to everyone trying anything else as it is cheap and easy to get.
http://www.folikul.com/Ketoconazole%201.pdf
This paper shows that ketocazole shampoo works in a bit of a different way to finasteride. Basically finasteride lowers the production of DHT but does not stop the rest binding to the follicle but ketocazole can not only lower production of DHT but can also stop it binding to the follicle as well. Its not perfect but used in conjunction with finasteride can provide extra help. Probably the most interesting passage from this paper is this:
"Ketoconazole has also been shown to be an effective treatment for Androgenetic Alopecia. Long-term use of
shampoos containing 2% ketoconazole increased the density, size and proportion of anagen follicles in men between the ages of 21–33. In this study, 27 subjects used 2% ketoconazole shampoo exclusively 2–4 times a week for 21weeks. The remaining 12 in the control group used an unmedicated shampoo. Pilary index (PI) was used to measure Androgenetic Alopecia. PI is calculated by multiplying the follicles in anagen (A) with average diameter (D) of the hair shafts (PI ¼ A D). The unmedicated group showed a linear decrease in PI (r ¼ 0:56, p < 0:05) with time. The ketoconazole group yielded progressive PI increase (r ¼ 0:69, p < 0:01). Although the effects of ketoconazole on 5a-R have been documented, the authors of the study concluded that the benefits were attributed to its effects on fungal scalp infections in genetically predisposed individuals. They argued that Androgenetic Alopecia has a multifactorial pathogenesis with an inflammatory reaction caused by a Malassezia fungal infection. It was concluded that ketoconazole was therapeutic by reducing inflammation through its anti-inflammatory properties and by clearing the adjacent fungal infection. Exploration of the inflammatory aspect of Androgenetic Alopecia was in great part based on the results of a biopsy study by Jaworsky et al., showing that Androgenetic Alopecia patients had signs of T-cell infiltration of follicular stem cell epithelium. However, limited conclusions should be drawn from the Jaworsky study because it only included 4 subjects and only 3 of them were men."
All the studies with ketoazole are too small to really be considered largely relevent but there does seem to be a least some proven evidence for its efficacy. That's why like all the mods on this board say, keto should at least be tried like the other treatments.
One other thing that i've found i'm doing that i never did pre-hairloss was stare at other guys hairlines. I know it sounds really weird but you do tend to see how others hair is doing, especially those of the same age as yourself.
Other news that seems encouraging is the whole replicel trial. They are reporting their results in april and going to the next phase of their trials in august this year which is using 100 people to judge optimal dosages etc.... Not to be too optimistic, but if they produce decent results (and by decent i mean something like 20% regrowth which is better than the gold standard propecia at the moment) it will be great news for everyone and hopefully we will have another good thing for hair loss by some time as early as 2015.
On to a bit of science. Everyone talks about the big three with finasteride being and antiandrogen, minoxidil being the growth stimulator and ketocazole being another mild (and topical) antiandrogen. I found that ketocazole didn't really work for me as it made my scalp itch but i would recommend it to everyone trying anything else as it is cheap and easy to get.
http://www.folikul.com/Ketoconazole%201.pdf
This paper shows that ketocazole shampoo works in a bit of a different way to finasteride. Basically finasteride lowers the production of DHT but does not stop the rest binding to the follicle but ketocazole can not only lower production of DHT but can also stop it binding to the follicle as well. Its not perfect but used in conjunction with finasteride can provide extra help. Probably the most interesting passage from this paper is this:
"Ketoconazole has also been shown to be an effective treatment for Androgenetic Alopecia. Long-term use of
shampoos containing 2% ketoconazole increased the density, size and proportion of anagen follicles in men between the ages of 21–33. In this study, 27 subjects used 2% ketoconazole shampoo exclusively 2–4 times a week for 21weeks. The remaining 12 in the control group used an unmedicated shampoo. Pilary index (PI) was used to measure Androgenetic Alopecia. PI is calculated by multiplying the follicles in anagen (A) with average diameter (D) of the hair shafts (PI ¼ A D). The unmedicated group showed a linear decrease in PI (r ¼ 0:56, p < 0:05) with time. The ketoconazole group yielded progressive PI increase (r ¼ 0:69, p < 0:01). Although the effects of ketoconazole on 5a-R have been documented, the authors of the study concluded that the benefits were attributed to its effects on fungal scalp infections in genetically predisposed individuals. They argued that Androgenetic Alopecia has a multifactorial pathogenesis with an inflammatory reaction caused by a Malassezia fungal infection. It was concluded that ketoconazole was therapeutic by reducing inflammation through its anti-inflammatory properties and by clearing the adjacent fungal infection. Exploration of the inflammatory aspect of Androgenetic Alopecia was in great part based on the results of a biopsy study by Jaworsky et al., showing that Androgenetic Alopecia patients had signs of T-cell infiltration of follicular stem cell epithelium. However, limited conclusions should be drawn from the Jaworsky study because it only included 4 subjects and only 3 of them were men."
All the studies with ketoazole are too small to really be considered largely relevent but there does seem to be a least some proven evidence for its efficacy. That's why like all the mods on this board say, keto should at least be tried like the other treatments.
antman
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thanks for the posts
Hopefully those white hairs are a good sign ?
I gave dutasteride a go as u may have guessed
I’ve had a ferocious appetite the last few weeks ~ I’ve just drink loads of green tea between meals to keep myself from eating.
For about 2 weeks I could only sleep for about 2-3 hrs and then be wide awake for about 5 hrs. I solved this by supplementing on taurine and GABA. They seem to help me get back to sleep quite quickly but I still wake up every 2 hrs.
I also got my first 2 pimples in about 4 years
I think I’m gonna go and see a doctor next week. I’ll also try to arrange a colonoscopy since my last blood test said I had a 95% chance of being celiac.
Does ketocazole shampoo make your hair look like pubes? It does that to me
Hopefully those white hairs are a good sign ?
I gave dutasteride a go as u may have guessed
I’ve had a ferocious appetite the last few weeks ~ I’ve just drink loads of green tea between meals to keep myself from eating.
For about 2 weeks I could only sleep for about 2-3 hrs and then be wide awake for about 5 hrs. I solved this by supplementing on taurine and GABA. They seem to help me get back to sleep quite quickly but I still wake up every 2 hrs.
I also got my first 2 pimples in about 4 years
I think I’m gonna go and see a doctor next week. I’ll also try to arrange a colonoscopy since my last blood test said I had a 95% chance of being celiac.
Does ketocazole shampoo make your hair look like pubes? It does that to me
Relax Im hilarious
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Hey antman
Yeah, i'm hoping the white hairs are a good sign. Everything seems to be going well at the moment for me with the hair, it feels thicker and the little hairs are growing. I've been really busy hence the lack of posts, but next week is the 6 month mark for me so i'm going to take some pictures and post them up to compare to the 3 month mark.
About your appetite issue, i guess (and this is just a guess), your body is adjusting to the extra free testosterone increase that dutasteride has brought about and this has put it in a naturally anabolic state so it's just trying to get as much energy as possible, hence the increase in appetite. I would imagine this will settle down in a couple of months as your hormone profile balances itself out and adapts to the new pills. The same applies for the pimples, the adjustment in the T has probably resulted in an increased sebum production, this should settle down over time as the body adjusts.
In regards to the coeliac, if the blood test (which is usually something called anti-TTG) was positive then there is a high chance of coeliac (over 90%). I'm not sure how healthcare works over in Australia but if you have to pay for procedures and don't want to pay for the colonoscopy just try eating gluten free products and see if this helps, there's very little a scope will tell you extra if you are TTG +ve and have symptoms of coeliac. Gluten free products and a change in diet along with some vitamin supplements usually works.
As for the sleep which i'm guessing is your biggest concern, i've never heard of any problems with taurine or GABA supplements but your doctor should be able to prescribe you some proper sleeping tablets to help you sleep. The tablets aren't cures and can be addictive so you can't take them long term but they help for the short term which could help you ride this sleep issue out until you get back to normal. If over the counter stuff doesn't work, in the UK the doctor will tend to give you a couple of weeks of something called zopiclone or zolpidem which will help, i presume it will be similar in Australia.
Back on to hair stuff.... ketocazole was not good for my hair, it made it brittle and horrible so i stopped it and changed to neutrogena t-gel (the one with coal tar) that got rid of the itch on my scalp and was much better. I'm guessing for some keto just doesn't really suit. I'd be really interested to see how you go on dutasteride, it will be interesting to see it's effects on your hair growth as well, from what everyone says it does seem to be more effective than finasteride.
Hope this advice helps a bit
Yeah, i'm hoping the white hairs are a good sign. Everything seems to be going well at the moment for me with the hair, it feels thicker and the little hairs are growing. I've been really busy hence the lack of posts, but next week is the 6 month mark for me so i'm going to take some pictures and post them up to compare to the 3 month mark.
About your appetite issue, i guess (and this is just a guess), your body is adjusting to the extra free testosterone increase that dutasteride has brought about and this has put it in a naturally anabolic state so it's just trying to get as much energy as possible, hence the increase in appetite. I would imagine this will settle down in a couple of months as your hormone profile balances itself out and adapts to the new pills. The same applies for the pimples, the adjustment in the T has probably resulted in an increased sebum production, this should settle down over time as the body adjusts.
In regards to the coeliac, if the blood test (which is usually something called anti-TTG) was positive then there is a high chance of coeliac (over 90%). I'm not sure how healthcare works over in Australia but if you have to pay for procedures and don't want to pay for the colonoscopy just try eating gluten free products and see if this helps, there's very little a scope will tell you extra if you are TTG +ve and have symptoms of coeliac. Gluten free products and a change in diet along with some vitamin supplements usually works.
As for the sleep which i'm guessing is your biggest concern, i've never heard of any problems with taurine or GABA supplements but your doctor should be able to prescribe you some proper sleeping tablets to help you sleep. The tablets aren't cures and can be addictive so you can't take them long term but they help for the short term which could help you ride this sleep issue out until you get back to normal. If over the counter stuff doesn't work, in the UK the doctor will tend to give you a couple of weeks of something called zopiclone or zolpidem which will help, i presume it will be similar in Australia.
Back on to hair stuff.... ketocazole was not good for my hair, it made it brittle and horrible so i stopped it and changed to neutrogena t-gel (the one with coal tar) that got rid of the itch on my scalp and was much better. I'm guessing for some keto just doesn't really suit. I'd be really interested to see how you go on dutasteride, it will be interesting to see it's effects on your hair growth as well, from what everyone says it does seem to be more effective than finasteride.
Hope this advice helps a bit
antman
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good to hear about your hair thickness
i meant to say endoscopy; i would not want the other end done.
the procedure will cost me nothing.
the brittle hair from keto sucks.
for the sleeping. taurine definitely calms my thoughts down. i don't think the GABA does much, i'll drop it once my container runs out. i'm not tired during the day so i'm probably getting more sleep than i think. it just feels like i'm awake all night.
i meant to say endoscopy; i would not want the other end done.
the procedure will cost me nothing.
the brittle hair from keto sucks.
for the sleeping. taurine definitely calms my thoughts down. i don't think the GABA does much, i'll drop it once my container runs out. i'm not tired during the day so i'm probably getting more sleep than i think. it just feels like i'm awake all night.
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antman said:
I remember waking up during my second colonoscopy, yup, I've had two so far at the young age of 23, haha. It was little uncomfortable, I could literally feel the tube moving around in my abdomen, I then remember waking up in the recovery room and mentioning to my doctor, he said it must have being a dream, my bollox was it, I was looking at the monitor, I was actually looking at me arsehole in high definition!
Relax Im hilarious
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IrishFella said:
That is absolutely hilarious (not the being awake obviously). It's not often people get to see their own arse in HD. :woot:
Antman - that's an odd one with the sleep, if you don't feel tired then it shouldn't be much of a problem, but if it persists get your Doctor to refer you for a sleep study, they will hook you up to an EEG whilst you sleep and tell you whether you having a problem at one of the 5 sleep stages. Do you remember dreaming at any point?
antman
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nice...IrishFella said:
uke: Relax said:
since taking dutasteride i've had no memory of dreaming, waking in a different position or a change in chain of thought.
this is what i have done the last few nights: i look at my watch every time i think 10min has past and usually about 2 to 3 hrs have past. if i didn't have a watch, i wouldn't have thought i slept at all; but i must have.
last night i had my longest time not looking at my watch which was 4 hrs, and again i thought i have been just restlessly trying to slept for 10min.
i didn't connect my sleep and dutasteride until i re-read your post. it could be just coincidence or nocebo.
Relax Im hilarious
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I'd say the best thing to do would be to make a sleep journal. It sounds weird but in the morning write down these incidences of how long you sleep for/when you look at your watch. You'll be able to assess over the next month whether this changes in time or not and whether your sleep patterns return to normal. Anything under 4 weeks in change is short term insomnia and most people will experience this at some points in their life.
It could be dutasteride it could be coincidence, it's actually not uncommon to wake up during sleep as sleep goes in cycles, the important thing is that you get enough REM sleep. If you are not feeling more tired in the morning then you could be getting enough sleep, even if it is broken. Do you have problems falling asleep or is it just staying asleep?
It could be dutasteride it could be coincidence, it's actually not uncommon to wake up during sleep as sleep goes in cycles, the important thing is that you get enough REM sleep. If you are not feeling more tired in the morning then you could be getting enough sleep, even if it is broken. Do you have problems falling asleep or is it just staying asleep?
Relax Im hilarious
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antman said:
Huh, strange, be interesting to hear if this is still the same in a months time. Could just be a transient thing.
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** It keeps telling me the board attachment quota has been reached so i can't post the pictures i have, any help anyone??**
So it has been six months since i started propecia, well actually 5 and a half but 6 months worth of 4 week blister packs so close enough...
I figure the best way to tackle this is to put a list of things i've seen over the last six months then i'm going to include some pictures that i took which i have tried to make as similar to the ones i took at 3 months. As always, i'm taking pictures with wet hair straight out of the shower, combed back, under strong lighting, without flash etc.... because i think it's best to see it at its worst and other ways. I personally think the hair is better but i suppose you can judge for yourselves.
- No problematic side effects so far, i've been lucky although i will keep watching out for them as i know that could change at any time. The only thing i did notice was that sometimes my semen seems a little waterier than other times, although i didn't really pay much attention before so i have no comparison.... However no problems with sex drive or erections or anything like that.
- I don't really shed anymore. A bad day for me now would be 20-30 hairs. The worst shed came roughly between months 3 and 4 and i was shedding up to 70 hairs a day.
- I shed sporadically and it did also occur from month one onwards. Some days were worse than others but as i said the shedding seemed to have slowed now and hit its peak between months 3-4.
- My hair seems darker, this may be all in my head but it seems a little darker than it was. It used to be standard brown, now it is more browny-black. This is not it reverting to a previous colour it was never this dark before even when i was a kid
- The hair seems thicker overall and of better quality - again it's not perfect but its a start
- No more scalp itch. It seemed to be bad until i started to use t-gel (the one with coal tar) but now its gone and even though i stopped using that shampoo it hasn't returned.
- Around half way through month 4 (ish) lots of baby hairs sprouted at the front of my head, more have sprouted since then and there are literally dozens now across the hairline.
- The baby hairs that are new that came in first seem to have thickened up a bit, there are still a lot that don't really make a lot of cosmetic difference but if they thicken up they will. You can't really see the baby hairs on the photos (sorry cameras not great) but they are there in force
- Although by no means great hair, the hairs on the hairline are enough to mean that i have stopped having to put any form of concealer on the front.
- I'm happy so far with the result and pretty anxious to see what happens over the next 6 months. Many people say it doesn't even really kick in properly until 6-12 months and people seem to notice benefits even up to 2-3 years in so i'm hoping it will continue to get better. I'll continue giving updates here and post another set of pictures at 9 months to contrast.
So it has been six months since i started propecia, well actually 5 and a half but 6 months worth of 4 week blister packs so close enough...
I figure the best way to tackle this is to put a list of things i've seen over the last six months then i'm going to include some pictures that i took which i have tried to make as similar to the ones i took at 3 months. As always, i'm taking pictures with wet hair straight out of the shower, combed back, under strong lighting, without flash etc.... because i think it's best to see it at its worst and other ways. I personally think the hair is better but i suppose you can judge for yourselves.
- No problematic side effects so far, i've been lucky although i will keep watching out for them as i know that could change at any time. The only thing i did notice was that sometimes my semen seems a little waterier than other times, although i didn't really pay much attention before so i have no comparison.... However no problems with sex drive or erections or anything like that.
- I don't really shed anymore. A bad day for me now would be 20-30 hairs. The worst shed came roughly between months 3 and 4 and i was shedding up to 70 hairs a day.
- I shed sporadically and it did also occur from month one onwards. Some days were worse than others but as i said the shedding seemed to have slowed now and hit its peak between months 3-4.
- My hair seems darker, this may be all in my head but it seems a little darker than it was. It used to be standard brown, now it is more browny-black. This is not it reverting to a previous colour it was never this dark before even when i was a kid
- The hair seems thicker overall and of better quality - again it's not perfect but its a start
- No more scalp itch. It seemed to be bad until i started to use t-gel (the one with coal tar) but now its gone and even though i stopped using that shampoo it hasn't returned.
- Around half way through month 4 (ish) lots of baby hairs sprouted at the front of my head, more have sprouted since then and there are literally dozens now across the hairline.
- The baby hairs that are new that came in first seem to have thickened up a bit, there are still a lot that don't really make a lot of cosmetic difference but if they thicken up they will. You can't really see the baby hairs on the photos (sorry cameras not great) but they are there in force
- Although by no means great hair, the hairs on the hairline are enough to mean that i have stopped having to put any form of concealer on the front.
- I'm happy so far with the result and pretty anxious to see what happens over the next 6 months. Many people say it doesn't even really kick in properly until 6-12 months and people seem to notice benefits even up to 2-3 years in so i'm hoping it will continue to get better. I'll continue giving updates here and post another set of pictures at 9 months to contrast.
Relax Im hilarious
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Right so i can finally upload pics. These are the pics for 6 months in of me taking finasteride, i've got the 3 month pics a couple of pages back to compare. I think its better and the photos don't show all the little hairs that have started to sprout because they are still pretty light coloured but they are coming in. Most of these pics are taken just out the shower with my head soaking wet because that's how i did the pics at 3 months so its the only real way to compare, also i wanted to see my hair wet because that's when it's probably at its worst so i think that's the best way to judge it.
As i mentioned in a previous post its hard to see in these pic but there is a big cosmetic difference now on the front (you can sort of see it if you compare the 3 and 6 months pics of the wet hair brushed back) where there is just a lot more thickness and loads of hairs just coming in. Its just more evident when it's dry and styled.
I would still love to see more hair grow in at the front (well not so much more but the little hairs thicken up more). I'll post another update at the 9 month mark. Hopefully, people say finasteride does it's best work between 1-2 years and i know plenty of people who have been on it for 3-4 years who say that if it works it just gets better and better, so fingers crossed... Other than that, nothing to report, shedding less than i was, no problems and just still anxiously waiting to see if my hair can go from strength to strength!
As i mentioned in a previous post its hard to see in these pic but there is a big cosmetic difference now on the front (you can sort of see it if you compare the 3 and 6 months pics of the wet hair brushed back) where there is just a lot more thickness and loads of hairs just coming in. Its just more evident when it's dry and styled.
I would still love to see more hair grow in at the front (well not so much more but the little hairs thicken up more). I'll post another update at the 9 month mark. Hopefully, people say finasteride does it's best work between 1-2 years and i know plenty of people who have been on it for 3-4 years who say that if it works it just gets better and better, so fingers crossed... Other than that, nothing to report, shedding less than i was, no problems and just still anxiously waiting to see if my hair can go from strength to strength!
