Reflex Hyperandrogenecity, Scarring Alopecia , Losing Ground After Good Regrowth! Pictures Included.

[wannamyhairback]

Hello
I kindly ask you to read my problem carefully .
I am 28 years old, white Caucasian. My family history: my dad is NW3 with receding hairline but great vertex and crown lets say he is pretty good for his own age. MY grandfather however was Norwood 6 when he passed away.I started losing my hair back in 2009 with slightly thinned crown and diffused patterned all over the scalp.I did not do anything till 2016 october when i started taking 1mg propecia after two months i added rogaine into my treatment. Things went perfectly after just being 1 month in rogaine and 3 in propecia, my shedding stopped and i realized my hair started growing again, i took monthly pictures to monitor my improvement. Everything was perfect . At beginning of January ( 3 month propecia and 1 month rogaine) i started feeling negative sides of propecia( brain fog, diffuculty to concentrate, surprisingly no sexual sides) i decided to take 1mg every other day starting from first day of January . My hair continued to improve and by march i reached the highest quality of my hair (very thick dense ,coarser, healthy) just like how it was when i was 18 or 19 . It was amazing and obvious that i responded very well to treatment. i need to mention that along propecia and rogaine treatment i was using regenepure dr shampoo containing 1% ketoconazole as it is considered a part of BIG 3( propecia, minoxidil, keto).

Unfortunately, starting from mid April,despite the fact that i did not dramatically change my treatment, i started shedding hairs( club hair : when the shedded hair is attached to yellowish-white bulb some kind of build up of excess sebum at the end.it soon followed by huge inflammation, itching , tingling, By end of July i reached the baseline maybe even worse. I am member of all big hairloss forums. Taking words a lot of people saying that quitting treatment is not good and shedding is part of treatment as a reference i stayed on my treatment as it is but things just got worsened. Then i developed seborrheic dermatitis, extremely oily skin, pimples and acne which i have never had in my whole life, elevated libido was another symptoms that i was observing. After checking all big hairloss forums and reading comments of people who have been through this, i came to conclusion that it was Reflex Hyperandrogenecity.

Reflex Hyperandrogenecity “When the effects of androgens in the body are lessened, e.g. through lowering DHT or by systemic hormone receptor blockade, the body seeks equilibrium through a process called upregulation. This can take the form of increased hormone production and/or increased tissue sensitivity to the remaining hormones. The reason side effects usually gradually disappear with finasteride is probably due to such upregulation. In a small percentage of individuals, it may be that this process overshoots the mark, resulting in significant hyperandrogenicity. This is marked by such signs as greatly increased facial oil, increased pimples, and greatly elevated libido. It’s possible that in certain cases such hyperandrogenicity overcomes the hair-protective effect of, say, finasteride, though this does not appear to be the case for the vast majority of people.”

Anyway i stayed on the treatment till October and two weeks ago i finally convinced my self that it is not a classic, typical shedding phase of treatment but my body responds differently to lowered DHT. It has been two weeks that i have stopped taking propecia, but my scalp is still as it was during the treatment. My scalp is extremely oily and painful , i still shed the hairs that attached to the yellow bulb, But the most devastating part is that i believe that i have developed scarring alopecia there are countless small parts with non specific shape all over my head over my scalp lost its pigmentation and hair follicles do not grow in those area. From now on i really dont know what to do. I tried to find on forums if there are some people experiencing what i did , i came across that copper peptide have helped some. I do not know whether it is worth to try it
in total i stayed on treatment for almost 6 months thinking it was shedding phase and i needed to ride it out
these photos below are (2 month propecia not started minoxidil)

these photos are (4 month propecia 2 months Rogaine)

these photos below (5.5months propecia 3.5 rogaine)

I would kill two innocent people without hesitation to get those hairs back!!

During shedding like a hell! (8 month in propecia, 6 month rogaine)

the type of hairs that i shed

Seborrheic dermatitis Seborrhea, red inflammation or whatever it is you name it!

My first assumption is that I react very badly to lowered DHT as i match every symptoms of R.H

from Wikipedia : Hyperandrogenism, also known as androgen excess, is a medical condition characterized by excessive levels of androgens(male sex hormones such as testosterone) in the female body and the associated effects of the elevated androgen levels. It is an endocrinological disorder similar to hyperestrogenism. The most common conditions associated with hyperandrogenism are polycystic ovary syndrome or PCOS, a set of symptoms caused by androgen excess in females, and various cancers that can cause androgen excess. In females, the condition usually present are some combination of acne, seborrhea (inflamed skin), hair loss on the scalp, increased body and/or facial hair (hirsutism), and an elevated sex drive or libido. The symptoms of hyperandrogenism are usually most effectively treated with antiandrogens. There is some controversy over whether hyperandrogenism provides an unfair advantage in athletics.

In this case after reading all posts and threads from all bighairloss forums i realized that no one updated his situatuin except @Ziggy123 as he went for hair transplant if i am not mistaken and @Dench57 the declared that it was not R.H he was experiencing. So others experiences are not being helpful at all as we did not hear from them about their progression .

Even while creating this thread i feel pain all over my scalp i cant say that i feel like Dht attacking my hair follicles as it was f***ing same while i was on propecia The interesting thing it all started when i hit my 6.5 months usage of propecia and 4.5 rogaine . Did it all happen because of 3.5 month ago i went from 1mg ED to 1mgEOD ? is it reason why it all happened?

I think lowering DHt through finasteride is no longer option for me , i do know however i need to kill DHT . I am planning use this DUALGEN15 +5% Azelaic Acid , i know it is generally considered not strong replacement but what else i can do! Also planning to use Copper peptide as it is believed to help generally.

With regards to Propecia side effects! obviously i need to name hairloss!! secondly i developed b**ch tits and i will definetely need a surgery. No sexual side effects i observed!
I know hyperandrogenism is treated with anti androgens like spironolactone but i dont want to touch it again becuase of gynecomastia. That s why i am kinda hopeless
My question is that have you ever came across people in this situation? if you think you can help me with this situation please do let me know!

 

[wannamyhairback]

Bump

 

[buckthorn]

EXACT same thing happened to me after a year on this f*cking garbage. My hair, sides included look almost exactly like your before and afters. I tried to microdose as well, for shits and giggles, this year and it just made it worst. Give up man. Hopefully, you'll regain some of what you lost. Here are some things that correlated for me, let me know if you had the same. All correlate to an increase in testosterone.

- drastically increased libido. increase in sleep erections, etc...

- oily skin

- SCALP INFLAMMATION - burning, itching, crawling, etc...

 

[buckthorn]

f*** man, your hair got shredded. I feel you. NEVER, EVER touch that f*cking poisonous garbage again.

 

[whatintheworld]

Woah this is crazy, the fact your sides thinned so much as well doesn't make sense.

Did you also quit minoxidil, or just finasteride? You're shed is what I would maybe expect from quitting min, but it is certainly very drastic.

 

[wannamyhairback]

- drastically increased libido. increase in sleep erections, etc.. tick!
- oily skin Tick!
- SCALP INFLAMMATION - burning, itching, crawling, etc... TICK!!!

i am so sorry for you as you can feel what am going through , its same here! i feel you bro. But before accepting the defeat we need to try every possible way to get them back.
OK Man how long its been since you quit and have you ever recovered from this sh*t?(in terms of regrowth or reduction in sebum production)
Did you also shed club hairs not from only male pattern baldness area but sides and back as well ?
Since you quit what is your current treatment? how you fight vs DHT ?
Are you satisfied with how things go?

The scariest part of my experiences is that i have developed whitish skin which varies from rest of the skin where hair no longer grows, it is not like big or small circle , it has no particular shape it is everywhere on my sides , on my top , on my vertex everywhere! NO hair grows and skin lost its pigmentation its whitish.that makes me frightened

I seriously do not know what to do in this case, I went to Derm but as you can guess we know way better than them when it comes to hairloss!
I just ordered minoxidil 15% +5% Azelaic Acid, as famous london hairloss centre offered this treatment (it is generally believed that they are treating patients very well but charges extremely more) and i ordered from somewhere else. i also started dermarolling again and use castor oil out of desperation. Trying to eat clean drinking green tea and stuff like that!

As of now digging websites to get information about scarring alopecia and fibrosis!

 

[buckthorn]

Woah this is crazy, the fact your sides thinned so much as well doesn't make sense.

Did you also quit minoxidil, or just finasteride? You're shed is what I would maybe expect from quitting min, but it is certainly very drastic.

it happened to me too. My brothers and I have the same genetics with hair loss. Like hair for hair the same. I have very diffused sides, my brothers, one of which is older has NO diffused thinning at all on the sides. It doesn't have to make sense, but finasteride is f*****g garbage for some people.

 

[buckthorn]

- drastically increased libido. increase in sleep erections, etc.. tick!
- oily skin Tick!
- SCALP INFLAMMATION - burning, itching, crawling, etc... TICK!!!

i am so sorry for you as you can feel what am going through , its same here! i feel you bro. But before accepting the defeat we need to try every possible way to get them back.
OK Man how long its been since you quit and have you ever recovered from this sh*t?(in terms of regrowth or reduction in sebum production)
Did you also shed club hairs not from only male pattern baldness area but sides and back as well ?
Since you quit what is your current treatment? how you fight vs DHT ?
Are you satisfied with how things go?

The scariest part of my experiences is that i have developed whitish skin which varies from rest of the skin where hair no longer grows, it is not like big or small circle , it has no particular shape it is everywhere on my sides , on my top , on my vertex everywhere! NO hair grows and skin lost its pigmentation its whitish.that makes me frightened

I seriously do not know what to do in this case, I went to Derm but as you can guess we know way better than them when it comes to hairloss!
I just ordered minoxidil 15% +5% Azelaic Acid, as famous london hairloss centre offered this treatment (it is generally believed that they are treating patients very well but charges extremely more) and i ordered from somewhere else. i also started dermarolling again and use castor oil out of desperation. Trying to eat clean drinking green tea and stuff like that!

As of now digging websites to get information about scarring alopecia and fibrosis!

every one on here will tell you that you sound EXACTLY like me a year and a half ago. I used 15% plus AA for a long time, nothing. I tried RU religiously for almost a year, nothing. My hair never grew back, which makes sense because it would have died on it's own anyways. Try whatever you like, and hopefully it works, but manage your expectations. IF your body fights the effects of finasteride THAT HARD, please don't expect anything else to work. Good luck man.

 

[buckthorn]

I personally think your hair loss looks like extreme Telogen Effluvium caused by finasteride. that would explain it more that upregulation. NO WAY you would lose THAT MUCH hair because of upregulation.

 

[wannamyhairback]

Woah this is crazy, the fact your sides thinned so much as well doesn't make sense.

Did you also quit minoxidil, or just finasteride? You're shed is what I would maybe expect from quitting min, but it is certainly very drastic.

No Man i did not quit minoxidil. I shaved my head and started my treatment in october 2016 1 mg propecia ED. 1st December i added Rogaine foam . After 3-4 weeks usage, lets say 28 -29 December i started letting my hair grow longer becuase i no longer feeling that i was balding.I responded very well, my scalp was fresh healthy, no oil even after 3 days nothing!! It was Dream . Dark and thick way coarser hair were getting improved day by day. During this time i swear God i am not lying i had not seen any single hair falling down at least non was observed during rogaine application or in shower!! till mid April when i started seeing 3-5 hairs during rogaine application, by end of the may this number was 30-40 and more in shower. i mean it was like someone changed something and i started going downhill!
My photo in sunlight it should be mid march! Look how thick hair is

 

[wannamyhairback]

every one on here will tell you that you sound EXACTLY like me a year and a half ago. I used 15% plus AA for a long time, nothing. I tried RU religiously for almost a year, nothing. My hair never grew back, which makes sense because it would have died on it's own anyways. Try whatever you like, and hopefully it works, but manage your expectations. IF your body fights the effects of finasteride THAT HARD, please don't expect anything else to work. Good luck man.

oh sh*t knowing that hurts it just killed my hopes, since i already ordered 3 months supply let me see how things go for me!
To my knowledge if i lost the hairs due to Telogen Efflivium somehow i should grow back at least most of them once the triggering reason is removed right?
the thing with upregulation is that i have never seen anyone posting regrowth or recovering from finasteride upregulation or finasteride induced telogen efflivium. That is the problem!! f*** f*** f***

 

[wannamyhairback]

it happened to me too. My brothers and I have the same genetics with hair loss. Like hair for hair the same. I have very diffused sides, my brothers, one of which is older has NO diffused thinning at all on the sides. It doesn't have to make sense, but finasteride is f*****g garbage for some people.

Exactly!! I mean it is obvious it works great for most of the people, but there is also people like us! In Propecia labelling it is said say 10 % of the study group did not respond to treatment instead of 10% were literally raped by finasteride.

 

[whatintheworld]

Exactly!! I mean it is obvious it works great for most of the people, but there is also people like us! In Propecia labelling it is said say 10 % of the study group did not respond to treatment instead of 10% were literally raped by finasteride.

So my sides have been thinning too, but that may just be because finasteride isn't enough (I've been on it for a year) to stop my male pattern baldness , which is pretty aggressive unfortunately .

So I mean now that I look at your pics, you have a similar loss pattern to mine, diffuse all over. Maybe there are some optical tricks to how diffuse it looks depending on the length of your hair. It looks to me like you lost more, but then again, the lighting conditions and angles are all a bit different for your photos.

 

[wannamyhairback]

So my sides have been thinning too, but that may just be because finasteride isn't enough (I've been on it for a year) to stop my male pattern baldness , which is pretty aggressive unfortunately .

So I mean now that I look at your pics, you have a similar loss pattern to mine, diffuse all over. Maybe there are some optical tricks to how diffuse it looks depending on the length of your hair. It looks to me like you lost more, but then again, the lighting conditions and angles are all a bit different for your photos.

First comparison photos are from almost same angle.But anyway i know , i see , i feel that i have lost all my gains my hair is really sh*t, drawning in oil no matter what i do and again it all happened with no reason at all.
No man trust me it is not matter of angle, i did lose all the hairs that i grew thanks to the treatment
Before fiansteride how was your sides? did you shedding hair from there? Have you ever gained anything while being on treatment, was it only finasteride that you were using ?

 

[whatintheworld]

First comparison photos are from almost same angle.But anyway i know , i see , i feel that i have lost all my gains my hair is really sh*t, drawning in oil no matter what i do and again it all happened with no reason at all.
No man trust me it is not matter of angle, i did lose all the hairs that i grew thanks to the treatment
Before fiansteride how was your sides? did you shedding hair from there? Have you ever gained anything while being on treatment, was it only finasteride that you were using ?

My sides were thinning too, around my ear area and my nape too. This is called retrograde alopecia if I'm not mistaken.

I didn't get any regrowth from finasteride, just maintained barely, or maybe even lost ground slightly. But my hair loss was really aggressive, it started at 22 and by 24 I was a diffusing nw5 similar to your pictures (I'm 25 now). In another 2 years I pretty much would have been slick bald if I didn't start on the big 3.

I am also only using min on my crown, where I did get regrowth, because I was worried about sides with applying it to my hairline, with it being so close to my face. This is maybe just bro science and nothing will happen, since I appear to be a good minoxidil responder, so I may consider applying it to my hairline soon.

 

[wannamyhairback]

My sides were thinning too, around my ear area and my nape too. This is called retrograde alopecia if I'm not mistaken.

I didn't get any regrowth from finasteride, just maintained barely, or maybe even lost ground slightly. But my hair loss was really aggressive, it started at 22 and by 24 I was a diffusing nw5 similar to your pictures (I'm 25 now). In another 2 years I pretty much would have been slick bald if I didn't start on the big 3.

I am also only using min on my crown, where I did get regrowth, because I was worried about sides with applying it to my hairline, with it being so close to my face. This is maybe just bro science and nothing will happen, since I appear to be a good minoxidil responder, so I may consider applying it to my hairline soon.

It is good for you that you are not being badly affected by one of solid proven treatment which treats the main cause of hairloss! so only thing i can do is to wish best recovery to you!
But in our cases its just doing more harm than good. i mean way more harm ! Anyway lets see what happens

 

[folfoxorack]

I think I have the exact same thing ...
And thinking about that make me worry about the risk of prostate cancer. If our follicles are even more weaker against DHT ... what about our prostate ?
If you take propecia/finasteride for 10 years or more ... does the "reflex hyperandrogeniticy" increase dramatically and make you prone to have a prostate cancer ?

 

[wannamyhairback]

I think I have the exact same thing ...
And thinking about that make me worry about the risk of prostate cancer. If our follicles are even more weaker against DHT ... what about our prostate ?
If you take propecia/finasteride for 10 years or more ... does the "reflex hyperandrogeniticy" increase dramatically and make you prone to have a prostate cancer ?

i have no damn clue about that. Maybe someone wiser can shed light on this issue. i'd like to know as well

 

[WMQ]

yep the same happened to me.

inflammation all over my head even on side and back. Probably have lost 70 percent hair? This is after 7 years of good maintainence.

 

[wannamyhairback]

Sorry to hear that you have experienced this sh*t man.Did you understand why after 7 years same thing happened to you? Did you search for why? what did you do ? Did you drop finasteride?