READ READ READ.. Very Interesting POV

[bezerra]

Severely overwashing your skin can definitely disrupt its normal condition and cause problems, but you need to understand that not ALL of the oil in skin is sebum! Not by a long shot! Problems that you get from doing the experiment you describe above come from the removal of fats and lipids of purely epidermal origin, disrupting the stratum corneum, etc. It has nothing to do with sebum per se.

That's interesting. What do you mean by sebum? I mean sebum as all the oil that your skin produces at the glands.
As far as I know sebum is the oil your skin produces, couldn't think that there's a difference between that. If you run out of oil in some parts of your body it'll eventually make your skin fragile.

 

[Bryan]

That's interesting. What do you mean by sebum? I mean sebum as all the oil that your skin produces at the glands. As far as I know sebum is the oil your skin produces, couldn't think that there's a difference between that. If you run out of oil in some parts of your body it'll eventually make your skin fragile.

Sebum is the term given specifically to the oily material produced by the sebaceous glands in the dermis (again, read those excerpts from medical journals I quoted on the previous page). It's produced by sebocytes in those glands, then flows upward (or outward) through the follicular canal, and then oozes onto the surface of the skin through the pores. It's not a general term that refers to ALL lipids produced by the skin!

Other lipids are also produced by the skin that are very important, like the "ceramides", which are critically important to the barrier function of the outermost part of the skin. Don't confuse sebum with all those other lipids! As Kligman and others have argued persuasively for years, sebum appears to serve no real purpose in humans anymore. The palms of your hands don't even HAVE sebaceous glands, and produce no sebum. Are the palms of your hands always in a red, dry, cracked state? Young, prepubertal children make almost no sebum at all, and neither do adults with CAIS (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome). They all get along just fine without sebum.

 

[bezerra]

That's interesting. What do you mean by sebum? I mean sebum as all the oil that your skin produces at the glands. As far as I know sebum is the oil your skin produces, couldn't think that there's a difference between that. If you run out of oil in some parts of your body it'll eventually make your skin fragile.

Sebum is the term given specifically to the oily material produced by the sebaceous glands in the dermis (again, read those excerpts from medical journals I quoted on the previous page). It's produced by sebocytes in those glands, then flows upward (or outward) through the follicular canal, and then oozes onto the surface of the skin through the pores. It's not a general term that refers to ALL lipids produced by the skin!

Other lipids are also produced by the skin that are very important, like the "ceramides", which are critically important to the barrier function of the outermost part of the skin. Don't confuse sebum with all those other lipids! As Kligman and others have argued persuasively for years, sebum appears to serve no real purpose in humans anymore. The palms of your hands don't even HAVE sebaceous glands, and produce no sebum. Are the palms of your hands always in a red, dry, cracked state? Young, prepubertal children make almost no sebum at all, and neither do adults with CAIS (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome). They all get along just fine without sebum.

I'm reading that now. I meant by sebum all the oils the skin produces, thanks for clarifying that! If sebum is really what that article says, it's useless at all
have a nice day!

 

[Mr Clean]

This thread has taken a really weird direction....

Has anybody thought of using isotretinon or whatever accutane is through a topical means to prevent from the potential side effects?

I want to take it orally, but everybody tells me its really bad for you. I'm now contemplating taking it topically.

There also is this guy, who did just that and got amazing results:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56396

Here's his blog too: http://andreaszam.blogspot.com/

 

[Mopless]

So... if sebum serves no point? Why do we have it then? Just curious.

And has anyone actually been trying this Accutane thing low-dose? All I can really add to this thread is that before I started finasteride, I use to have a really oily scalp. My forehead was always nasty and very shiny, I tried washing it regularly, using astringents and all other kinds of crap daily to lessen it. No real relief until I starting taking finasteride. I simply do not have an oily scalp or forehead anymore. I was amazed at this wonderful side-effect. So it does make me wonder if sebum can have something to do with hairloss, in relationship to DHT of course.

 

[Bryan]

So... if sebum serves no point? Why do we have it then? Just curious.

Members of the medical cognoscenti (like Kligman and his colleagues) think that sebum probably had a useful purpose at one time in our distant past (like maybe to waterproof our fur), but as we lost that fur, sebum became more and more unnecessary. Kligman regards sebum nowadays as a "living fossil".

 

[armandein]

So... if sebum serves no point? Why do we have it then? Just curious.

Members of the medical cognoscenti (like Kligman and his colleagues) think that sebum probably had a useful purpose at one time in our distant past (like maybe to waterproof our fur), but as we lost that fur, sebum became more and more unnecessary. Kligman regards sebum nowadays as a "living fossil".

cognoscenti

Excuse me Bryan, I can not resist, I have just used the dicctionary

Medtalk A cove (British slang term) with book (learned) or street smarts who is held to have special knowledge and capable of convincing a jury black is white, or vice versa; for every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert.

McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of Modern Medicine. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

BTW Mr. Kligman said that not all his aseverations were real.

Armando

 

[TameOne]

This thread has taken a really weird direction....

Has anybody thought of using isotretinon or whatever accutane is through a topical means to prevent from the potential side effects?

I want to take it orally, but everybody tells me its really bad for you. I'm now contemplating taking it topically.

There also is this guy, who did just that and got amazing results:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56396

Here's his blog too: http://andreaszam.blogspot.com/

Interesting...that guy says he takes a lot of cod liver oil everyday which is very high in vitamin A, which would have the same effects on sebum production as Accutane.

 

[Mopless]

Interesting...that guy says he takes a lot of cod liver oil everyday which is very high in vitamin A, which would have the same effects on sebum production as Accutane.

Irrelevant, he's also on the big three. So we will never know if the cod liver oil that is super high on vitamin A actually had anything to do with his hair regrowth.

Gimme someone who has taken accutane low dose, with a few pictures showing a little regrowth and maintenance, and I'll be sold. However, no one has produced any real proof, as far as I know. So I doubt it will happen. *sigh*

 

[casken]

So... if sebum serves no point? Why do we have it then? Just curious.

And has anyone actually been trying this Accutane thing low-dose? All I can really add to this thread is that before I started finasteride, I use to have a really oily scalp. My forehead was always nasty and very shiny, I tried washing it regularly, using astringents and all other kinds of crap daily to lessen it. No real relief until I starting taking finasteride. I simply do not have an oily scalp or forehead anymore. I was amazed at this wonderful side-effect. So it does make me wonder if sebum can have something to do with hairloss, in relationship to DHT of course.

Interesting. Like you, I had oily skin/scalp before finasteride but afterward it was way worse and get I get terrible breakouts all over my scalp.

Have you been regrowing/maintaining? I think the excessive oiliness and inflammation could be making my loss more aggressive and untreatable.

 

[Mopless]

Yes, I'm hitting the 6 month mark. I had a slight shed 3rd and 4th month in. 5th and 6th so far is looking food. My hair is thickening up, tons of vellus hairs along my old hairline is popping up. Don't know if it's going to go terminal or not, but it gives me hope of the one year mark. Progress on finasteride is a snails pace, but it's happening.

I agree with your statement about oil/inflammation. When I noticed hairloss about 6 or so years ago, it was mild. But it ran full gear, 3 years in I lost a bunch of hair, and was damn near a NW3. Oily scalp, itchiness from hell. (this was also a very difficult time in my life) When I started doing natural treatments and hairloss experiments with stuff like nizoral cream, cortisone topicals, Zix, topical AA, Beta set, Saw pelmetto, and so on, my loss might have slowed down a little bit. Eventually I got on nizoral shampoo, which seems to work better for me then the cream, and started taking care of myself a little better. THAT made a fair difference. The last 2-3 years I've seemed maintained what I have. Eventually though, I finally broke, conquered my fears and jumped on the finasteride. And now my hair is growing back, my oil scalp has been slain. Hell, my prostate shrunk too, so I don't get up to pee at night anymore. That was an unexpected plus. For "me", finasteride so far has been a really good move.

I only wish I started with the big guns in the beginning.

 

[Hair101]

Managed to acquire 3 months supply of Accutane, and started on low dose 20mg/day 2 months ago.

As I said in my earlier post, I've tried normal dose Accutane for my acne a couple years ago, and noticed decreased hair loss and regrowth...the effect started wearing off though about a year after stopping Accutane, and that was when I started noticing thinning hair.

To prove that Accutane really does help and that it wasn't just a coincidence, I decided to take Accutane again even though I have no more acne problems.

I'm just past the 2 month mark, and rate of hair loss reduced significantly. Also the sebum has been greatly reduced, and hair is much less oily. Not sure how to track hair regrowth, but hair looks just as thick, maybe a little thicker, than before I started Accutane. Side effects include the usual dry skin/lips...just dry everywhere in general.

I feel that maybe 30mg/day would yield better results. I believe that the results would become more apparent after another 2 or 3 months, and I can say that it is heading in the right direction.

I will keep you guys posted.

 

[dougfunny]

Managed to acquire 3 months supply of Accutane, and started on low dose 20mg/day 2 months ago.

As I said in my earlier post, I've tried normal dose Accutane for my acne a couple years ago, and noticed decreased hair loss and regrowth...the effect started wearing off though about a year after stopping Accutane, and that was when I started noticing thinning hair.

To prove that Accutane really does help and that it wasn't just a coincidence, I decided to take Accutane again even though I have no more acne problems.

I'm just past the 2 month mark, and rate of hair loss reduced significantly. Also the sebum has been greatly reduced, and hair is much less oily. Not sure how to track hair regrowth, but hair looks just as thick, maybe a little thicker, than before I started Accutane. Side effects include the usual dry skin/lips...just dry everywhere in general.

I feel that maybe 30mg/day would yield better results. I believe that the results would become more apparent after another 2 or 3 months, and I can say that it is heading in the right direction.

I will keep you guys posted.

Remember that dry hair appears thicker that could be why you think it is helping.

Also, I hope you are getting your lipids and liver enzymes tested since accutane can cause life threatening abnormalities in these lab values.

 

[captain_que]

Yes accutane treatment should be carried out under the supervision of a medical doctor..

Also, do you remember to take pictures ?

 

[Kero]

From what I've read 20mg/day are definitely a risk to suffer from hairloss in the later days of treatment. I'd take 20mg maybe twice a week. And remember that you can't take it forever. It's not a lifelong solution.

 

[Mopless]

Thanks so much for posting! Please take pics if possible and keep us updated. Really appreciate your input. unk:

 

[Karamba]

Can anyone summerize this thread in a couple of sentences?

 

[qwerty]

Can anyone summerize this thread in a couple of sentences?

please! itd be lovely if every 10 pages, an active conributor would summarize it up. sadly im not very active here :/

 

[Hair101]

Managed to acquire 3 months supply of Accutane, and started on low dose 20mg/day 2 months ago.

As I said in my earlier post, I've tried normal dose Accutane for my acne a couple years ago, and noticed decreased hair loss and regrowth...the effect started wearing off though about a year after stopping Accutane, and that was when I started noticing thinning hair.

To prove that Accutane really does help and that it wasn't just a coincidence, I decided to take Accutane again even though I have no more acne problems.

I'm just past the 2 month mark, and rate of hair loss reduced significantly. Also the sebum has been greatly reduced, and hair is much less oily. Not sure how to track hair regrowth, but hair looks just as thick, maybe a little thicker, than before I started Accutane. Side effects include the usual dry skin/lips...just dry everywhere in general.

I feel that maybe 30mg/day would yield better results. I believe that the results would become more apparent after another 2 or 3 months, and I can say that it is heading in the right direction.

I will keep you guys posted.

Remember that dry hair appears thicker that could be why you think it is helping.

Also, I hope you are getting your lipids and liver enzymes tested since accutane can cause life threatening abnormalities in these lab values.

Yep I always have tests done while I'm on the treatment, and so far I haven't had any problems with Accutane.
The lower dose certainly helps to reduce the side effects of Accutane, and hopefully it reduces the risks of enzymes going out of whack while maintaing my hair...at least that's what I'm hoping.
I know this isn't a long-term solution, and my doctor probably wouldn't prescribe anymore Accutane since I'm acne free, but out of all the things I've tried, this seems to yield the quickest and best results...

 

[qwerty]

im sure this has been brought up before, but what about all of the people who have been on accutane since their teens and still end up losing their hair in the male pattern baldness pattern??

ive read so many things about accutane. from it permanately curing acne, to permanately lowering testosterone levels, to everything (hair and skin) getting worse after treatment - some even blaming accutane for triggering their hair loss).