Rapid Hairloss - Post 6 years Propecia

[zzzzz]

I think you could get good results from minoxidil, liquid is considered more effective than foam though

 

[hairbrigade]

I think you could get good results from minoxidil, liquid is considered more effective than foam though

Yeah, I've just been putting it off as it seems such hastle to apply twice every day, plus an extra cost, but I probably just have to accept that the one-pill finasteride wonder is no longer enough after 6 years! There was an interesting comparative study (you have probably already seen) between the main approved hair-loss medications (finasteride, minoxidil, Keto) and the 1% finasteride + 2% minoxidil was top, followed by 1% finasteride + 2% Keto, then 1% finasteride alone, and lastly 2% minoxidil alone. (Source: http://www.progressivehealth.com/nizoral-shampoo.htm )

Not sure how much the 5% minoxidil and liquid vs foam would change things. As for the liquid, I hear it makes your hair very greasy which would be a non starter for me as I now have fairly long pushed back hair. However, I've heard that the liquid 5% can be affective if applied once a day at night, then washed off in morning. The 5% foam probably does not absorb as well into scalp as you state, so that would necessitate twice daily, but I hear it is not as greasy.

I'm tempted to see how the 2% Nizoral helps things as I've only started that today! Already my scalp feels less shiny/oily, but thats probably just my imagination!

I'm sure if 0.5mg dutasteride was added to that study, then it would finish top, either taken alone, or once a week in conjuction with 1mg/day finasteride - albeit I guess in theory one can stop finasteride being dutasteride stops so much DHT and has such a long half life. I may discuss with my doctor, but I'm sure he would advise me against it until the FDA approves it (apparently Glaxosmithkline are trying to push it through this year). As an aside, Some posters have informed me that increasing the finasteride dose should make little impact.

 

[zzzzz]

you can apply only once every day (before bed) this will allow you to style your hair as normal and will only be slightly less effective than twice daily

 

[Wolf Pack]

This story has worried me the most since coming on this forum. A well informed intelligent guy, showing pics too and look at how Propecia stopped working suddenly. No doubt this is rare but still.

I know what you mean on Dutasteride's safety. Also exactly how much is it better than finasteride.

In your situation why don't you stay on finasteride but look into RU? It's an experimental topical. Like you I hate topicals and it's not approved but it does yield results at least short term, I wouldn't normally recommend it but seems you are out of options.

Don't quit the finasteride though.

 

[hairbrigade]

This story has worried me the most since coming on this forum. A well informed intelligent guy, showing pics too and look at how Propecia stopped working suddenly. No doubt this is rare but still.

I know what you mean on Dutasteride's safety. Also exactly how much is it better than finasteride.

In your situation why don't you stay on finasteride but look into RU? It's an experimental topical. Like you I hate topicals and it's not approved but it does yield results at least short term, I wouldn't normally recommend it but seems you are out of options.

Don't quit the finasteride though.

Appreciate that, thanks

I will certainly keep on the 1mg/day finasteride, and hope that I can recover some lost ground so to speak. I've had small Propecia sheds during the 7 years I've been on it, but never to this extreme before.

However, there was a point 18 months ago when the scalp burn re-occured and lost a fair bit of hair again in a short time period. I quickly worked out it was due to a fitness shake I was regularly taking for 2 months prior containing Creatine (Maximuscle Cyclone). I immediately stopped this, and within a month the scalp burn went and I eventually restored most of the loss...My hair thus must be extremely sensistive to hormone changes.

Thanks for the RU tip-off, I will definetly look into that.

Hopefully the finasteride can 'come back' strong again, albeit I now have my doubts. On the positive, my shed has noticeably reduced over the last 7 days. Keeping optimistic with my recently started Nizoral 2% also. If it can calm my scalp then I guess there's always a chance!

I will keep you all informed of any noticeable progress (with photo's).

Also, I'm very happy to share my finasteride experiences over the last 7 years with anyone recently started or unsure as well

 

[doublebatman]

By the looks of things you had fairly aggressive and diffuse hair loss in the first picture. You responded very well to medication; that is evident in the suit picture (awesome wall of hair).

My hair is somewhat like what yours is in the first picture. hopefully I'll respond like you did, although it's very worrying that hair can take a dive like that in seven months. Barely gives you enough time to react

I hope you get by our hair back to how it was!

 

[hairbrigade]

By the looks of things you had fairly aggressive and diffuse hair loss in the first picture. You responded very well to medication; that is evident in the suit picture (awesome wall of hair).

My hair is somewhat like what yours is in the first picture. hopefully I'll respond like you did, although it's very worrying that hair can take a dive like that in seven months. Barely gives you enough time to react

I hope you get by our hair back to how it was!

Agreed and thanks! I indeed had very noticeable male pattern baldness before starting finasteride, which is what prompted me to start. Without doubt, my hair would need to be shaven now otherwise!

As you state, it's just the SPEED of the change which has both confused and caught me off guard. This is what gives me hope of some recovery still, albeit now accept a better longer term stratgy is required!

I'm sure you will see good results very soon - took me 6 months to stabilise shed, 12 months for noticeable regrowth, peaked after 18-24 months. I had the usual sides (libido reduction, some gyno) but this reversed after temporarily stopping last summer and autumn for two periods between 7-8 days.

I had a brainstorm the other day. As my Doctor checked my hormone blood levels last summer (before I temporarily stopped the finasteride) if it contained Serum DHT, then I could request another to compare. I know its not the same as Scalp DHT, but would be an interesting proxy none the less - if possible. Will let you know!

I notice you are on nizoral 1%. Ive just started the 2% version. It already seems to be calming my mildly burning/tender scalp which gives me hope! But seems so 'harsh' on the hair (really dries it out) even with a small amount. I'm thinking of using once every 3 days as a result. Hope you are getting some results from that too..

 

[xRedStaRx]

not even close

Why not?

- - - Updated - - -

Appreciate that, thanks

I will certainly keep on the 1mg/day finasteride, and hope that I can recover some lost ground so to speak. I've had small Propecia sheds during the 7 years I've been on it, but never to this extreme before.

However, there was a point 18 months ago when the scalp burn re-occured and lost a fair bit of hair again in a short time period. I quickly worked out it was due to a fitness shake I was regularly taking for 2 months prior containing Creatine (Maximuscle Cyclone). I immediately stopped this, and within a month the scalp burn went and I eventually restored most of the loss...My hair thus must be extremely sensistive to hormone changes.

Thanks for the RU tip-off, I will definetly look into that.

Hopefully the finasteride can 'come back' strong again, albeit I now have my doubts. On the positive, my shed has noticeably reduced over the last 7 days. Keeping optimistic with my recently started Nizoral 2% also. If it can calm my scalp then I guess there's always a chance!

I will keep you all informed of any noticeable progress (with photo's).

Also, I'm very happy to share my finasteride experiences over the last 7 years with anyone recently started or unsure as well

Finasteride doesn't lose it's effectiveness.

If it's been working for you thus far, then it DOES work. And if it DOES work, then it will continue to do so as long as you take it.

Don't get scared of sheds, you may have triggered a synchronous hair cycle by stopping, which explains the large shed.

 

[hairbrigade]

Finasteride doesn't lose it's effectiveness.

If it's been working for you thus far, then it DOES work. And if it DOES work, then it will continue to do so as long as you take it.

Don't get scared of sheds, you may have triggered a synchronous hair cycle by stopping, which explains the large shed.

I will keep my fingers crossed then. The last stopping was for 8 days at the beginning of November and prior to that was 7 days in June. I've been on finasteride 1mg every day before, in between and after those two periods. Could this sudden triggering of a synchronous hair cycle really last 2 months?

Indeed the finasteride was nothing short of a hair miracle for me and as you say, hopefully still can/will be.

Other than the visibly noticeable huge shed and re-balding, the sudden return of the scalp tenderness/mild burn concerned me, as that alweays equates to thinning scalp from my experienmce. The 2% Nizoral already seems to be helping so far at least, and I only started on Mon!

 

[xRedStaRx]

I will keep my fingers crossed then. The last stopping was for 8 days at the beginning of November and prior to that was 7 days in June. I've been on finasteride 1mg every day before, in between and after those two periods. Could this sudden triggering of a synchronous hair cycle really last 2 months?

Indeed the finasteride was nothing short of a hair miracle for me and as you say, hopefully still can/will be.

Other than the visibly noticeable huge shed and re-balding, the sudden return of the scalp tenderness/mild burn concerned me, as that alweays equates to thinning scalp from my experienmce. The 2% Nizoral already seems to be helping so far at least, and I only started on Mon!

A lot of factors can trigger shedding. Stress is a big one.

Keep in mind that shed hair is not lost. 'Hair loss' is a gradual process of follicular miniturization. In other words, you didn't suddenly bald in a few weeks. Report back in a few month when the shedding effect is offset by the more recent hairs.

 

[hairbrigade]

A lot of factors can trigger shedding. Stress is a big one.

Keep in mind that shed hair is not lost. 'Hair loss' is a gradual process of follicular miniturization. In other words, you didn't suddenly bald in a few weeks. Report back in a few month when the shedding effect is offset by the more recent hairs.

Ok, thanks. I certainly will give an update in February on any visible signs of regain.

 

[abovedagame]

please do give an update to us in a few months- I am very interested in your results

 

[hairbrigade]

Hairloss Update - 5 weeks on

please do give an update to us in a few months- I am very interested in your results

Hi all, here's a quick update 5 weeks on..

- Shedding noticeably reduced (less on pillow & sink), but still above what I experienced during years 1-6 on Propecia. I assume this isn't because there's now less to fall!
- Scalp sensitivity reduced (albeit still slightly tender which is indicative that my scalp has become sensitive to the remaining DHT). My scalp hurts a little if i pull hairs on the vertex, but it doesn't if I pull on the back and sides (the 'safe' zone).
- Scalp shine/oiliness has visibily massively reduced.
- Hair quality is still rather poor (hairs that fall from the balding zone on vertex are at least half the thickness of hair elsewhere).

Treatments over the last 5 weeks;

- Continued with 1mg/finasteride every day (I have not missed a single dose since early November (which was the 10 day break which caused most of this).
- Started Nizoral 2%, and use very sparingly 3 times a week (I'm convinced this has driven the reduction in scalp oils. It seems to make my hair look really full on day on application, but very poor and flat/lifeless the next day, I hear this is a common issue, but I will keep using).
- Use very expensive HLCC Shampoo & Conditioner every day (packed with natural DHT inhibitors and vitamins). This makes my existing hair look clean & glossy, but does nothing for hair loss or thickening.
- Multi-vitamin hair tablets every day (all this seems to do is make my hair gow faster).
- Alpecin caffeine shampoo 3-4 times a week (I feel this does nothing other than poss make my hair grow faster).

Next steps;

- I have bought 3 months supply of Regaine Foam (5%) but have been reluctant to try due to reading bad reports of its imapct on collagen and skin ageing? My plan was to use just one a day before bed, and to apply just to the main balding area, albeit I feel there would be value in applying to whole of vertex due to thinning now starting to spread elsewhere.
- I am going to buy a Hairmax LazerComb - it's FDA approved and I feel I could get some gains (albeit I doubt anymore than 25% density increase).
- I have ruled out Dutasteride having spoken with my GP. He also will not precribe me any more than 1mg/finasteride as says the FDA only approved that for hairloss. I would thus have to buy on the web, but am unsure if (i) I want more finasteride in my body due to sides & health considerations (ii) how much more I would actually need and if it would do anything.
- Ii am not keen on trying any experimental drugs or lotions on my hair. I hear that Azelaic acid could be of some benefit however which I am looking into. I cannot use spironolactone as I understand it can raise blood potassium levels and my levels are already slightly high.

I haven't uploaded any more pics as yet as personally I dont think there is that much difference, albeit I can look to add one soon.

 

[abcdefg]

The answer is this happens to some people for unknown reasons. No one has any idea why finasteride would stop being able to halt male pattern baldness like that. My personal theory is still that things happen with the sensitivity part of male pattern baldness that receptors are involved with in response to the much lower long term androgens some things change and it adapts to that. Over time it slowly resumes what it was doing before because there are still androgens left. As everyone else im just randomly guessing

 

[hairbrigade]

The answer is this happens to some people for unknown reasons. No one has any idea why finasteride would stop being able to halt male pattern baldness like that. My personal theory is still that things happen with the sensitivity part of male pattern baldness that receptors are involved with in response to the much lower long term androgens some things change and it adapts to that. Over time it slowly resumes what it was doing before because there are still androgens left. As everyone else im just randomly guessing

I agree, however in my case it was not progressive, it was a 'big bang' rapid loss almost after I stopped the tablets early November due to some blood tests that I needed for Potassium levels (which were thankfully fine). Rapid hairloss started within just 4 weeks of this, combined with a spike in scalp oiliness, tenderness and even a huge libido increase! Since I've been back on the 1mg/day finasteride ever since that 10-day break, these factors have massively reduced over the last 4 weeks in particular. However, I am seeing little sign of regrowth. Almost as if my hair was 'clinging on' and the finasteride break pushed them over the edge. I am thinking of upping the finasteride dose from 1mg to 1.25mg but I doubt it will make much difference now. Regaine and lazercomb prob a better option to kick-start the growth again.

 

[xRedStaRx]

The body does what the body must.

Nothing you can do except keep taking your meds, and hope for the best.

 

[hairbrigade]

The body does what the body must.

Nothing you can do except keep taking your meds, and hope for the best.

This is true. I have just purchased a Hairmax Pro 12 Lazercomb and thought I would give it a go. Have a 6 month return guarantee if the efficacy is not what I hoped for, so nothing to lose. I'm still on the 1mg/day Propecia and will probably not increase the dose (albeit tempted), and I'm definetely not taking Dutasteride. Nizoral is definetly helping my scalp, it has zapped all the excess Sebum no doubt. Good news is my loss has finally re-stabilised, I'm now just trying for regrowth. Last card is Regaine and I've actually already purchased the foam but cannot decide whether to give the lazer 3-4 months, or go for broke and use both. The reported ageing side effects put me off minoxidil, albeit was only planning on using once a day at bedtime.

 

[DENI3D]

I assume then that my DHT levels have naturally increased over the last few years (I'm 34 now) and that Propecia alone can no longer hold back the resulting damage to the hair follicles. This would also make sense as to why the scalp burning has returned over the last 6 months, combined with the heavy shed (& I mean HEAVY!!).

I've attached some pics. First is prior to taking Propecia in 2007, three whilst on it (years 3-6) and finally a very recent one. It almost appears that I am heading back to my pre-propecia hair state and 'throwing away' all the good work so to speak! I cannot believe I had such thick hair only 7 months ago (picture of me in suit). Seems as though the DHT has either 'gone through the roof' in last 6 months, or the finasteride has struggled to 'regain ground' after I stopped in twice due to other checks.

I'm worried that by stopping Propecia twice for an 8 day period over the last 6 months has damaged its efficiacy permanently. I havent missed a day in 2 months now and recently added 2% Nizoral to my routine (2-3 times a week) to try and calm the scalp and recover recently lost hair (fingers crossed there). I am not keen on complementing with 0.5mg dutasteride, even once a week until it is proven 'safe'. My last options are increasing the finasteride dose from 1 to 1.25mg/day (tricky as my UK chemist only sells 1mg Propecia), minoxidil Foam and of course...a FUE transplant which I've already done some research into!

Holy **** dude that is insane! It's like you never even had hair loss to begin with. I'm dumbfounded right now, well guess I'm gonna have to try finasteride to. Hope it works half as good as it did for you holy **** unk::bravo:

 

[hairbrigade]

Hi all, Just thought I'd let you know that I've added a couple of new pictures to my album.

I think there has been a visible improvement since the ones taken in November-14 last year, albeit I still have a visibly thin vertex in particular.

Good news is hair loss has massively reduced, only get a few hairs fall out in the shower now and on the pillow.

I'm struggling with regrowth however, and still trying to make the vertex hairs thicker (they are minaturising - very fine and lifeless still). Hoping the Hairmax and Nizoral will help there.

I tried the Kirkland Liquid 5% in March but stopped it after 2 weeks due to a lot of headaches and a massive hair shed (albeit I understand the latter is natural). I am considering trying the Foam which I understand has less side-effects.

 

[abcdefg]

I was thinking finasteride inhibited about 70 percent serum and local DHT at the 1mg which still leaves a decent amount. Ive never been convinced T doesnt do anything and DHT is the sole culprit alone which is why something like CB or RU that competes with androgens would help a lot compared to just systemically lowering DHT but who knows I guess.