Questions for weight lifting/fitness freaks.

VoRteX

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I dont do much overhead pressing these days as my shoulder (which has been surgically repaired) does not handle it all that well.

I used to military press about 120-140 in training reps and had a max of near 200 but that was many years ago (body weight 160).


Sorry to hear about your shoulder, hope it doesn't give you too much grief.

I usually overhead press about half a dozen reps at 180 (body weight 168) so do you think it would be beneficial to reduce the weight to allow more reps?

Thanks,
Slarti


My shoulder is fine now as long as I behave.

On the reps, it all depends on what you are training for. What are your training goals?

BTW-those are very impressive poundages for your bodyweight.

Way to go!

I would be VERY careful with going heavy on free weight military press. I have a close friend who has been bodybuilding for years(very muscular and strong) who was having a great shoulder workout doing military. He was going heavy for him(like 200) and said he felt a slight "twinge" His shoulder was screwed for the next year (rotator). Remember, its good to go heavy to shock your muscles into growing, but be careful and dont overdo it. My personal technique is to never lift a weight that I cant do for at least 6reps x3 sets. I prefer to keep the weight at a level where I can do 8-10 for most exercises.

I just started doing free weight military around a month ago and I'm up to 105 for 8 reps x 3 sets. I do front military, not back. I like side lateral raises too. You dont have to use much weight at all to get a killer deltoid burn
 
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Agree with Vortex. I have better luck with dumbells for the military press as they allow the shoulders to move in a more natural arc.

Also, I stay way away from BN presses as they really stress the rotator cuff, which I have blown out already.
 

zak84

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silly brucey, thats why god invented cortisone, i over-head press 3 sets of 6, starting at 225, then 235, then 245 (i use a smith machine), god knows how bad my should pops now, but, you numb the pain and keep pumpin


"toughin up chief"... :D
 
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zak84 said:
silly brucey, thats why god invented cortisone, i over-head press 3 sets of 6, starting at 225, then 235, then 245 (i use a smith machine), god knows how bad my should pops now, but, you numb the pain and keep pumpin


"toughin up chief"... :D

Well, if you have read up on cortisone, you know that stuff is an interim step to a bad ending. From experience, if you go to far with your shoulder, the no pain, no gain approach will have you in the surgical suite.

Esp. on the Smith machine. Bad news. dude.

Good luck though.

BL
 

Slartibartfast

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BruceLee said:
My shoulder is fine now as long as I behave.

On the reps, it all depends on what you are training for. What are your training goals?

BTW-those are very impressive poundages for your bodyweight.

Way to go!

:D

When I started doing weights a few years back I was a skinny 145 so I mainly wanted to up my body mass. Now that I weigh 168 I don't feel the need to do this but I enjoy the regular training that it engenders and the challenge of increasing what I can lift.

Thanks,
Slarti
 

Slartibartfast

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VoRteX said:
I would be VERY careful with going heavy on free weight military press. I have a close friend who has been bodybuilding for years(very muscular and strong) who was having a great shoulder workout doing military. He was going heavy for him(like 200) and said he felt a slight "twinge" His shoulder was screwed for the next year (rotator). Remember, its good to go heavy to shock your muscles into growing, but be careful and dont overdo it. My personal technique is to never lift a weight that I cant do for at least 6reps x3 sets. I prefer to keep the weight at a level where I can do 8-10 for most exercises.

I just started doing free weight military around a month ago and I'm up to 105 for 8 reps x 3 sets. I do front military, not back. I like side lateral raises too. You dont have to use much weight at all to get a killer deltoid burn

I'm always especially careful when doing military presses as I feel I could injure my back quite easily if I wasn't, never had any problems with my shoulders though.

Thanks for the info
Slarti
 

wheresmyhair

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Its totally true using little weights in you home is going to do nothing for real strength but it will help with your endurance. You need the ability to increase the weights using pyramid systems which will help you develop size and strength very quickily.
And the amount of sets and reps you use will vary on your body type, and muscle group. You may respond better to high reps like I do whereas my mates use lower reps. And you need rest days!

Using free weights is the best to start with as the majority of these types of excercises are compound movements and involve stabiliser muscles to help in the process developing your overall body strength and size rapidly.

Basically get yourself into a gym! Thats the first point your not going to get anywhere in your house and stuff home equipment they are useless and a waste of money.

I am an amateur boxer and 4th year in northern Kung Fu I have been boxing for 12 years but I recently stopped as I dont have the time now as my real career takes over.

If you need some tips on real strength and speed I can send you some things, boxing is the best form of cardio and will help you develop speed and co-ordination as well as strength. We use a lot of techniques involving our own weight, like chin ups and push ups etc...


It really depends on what your goal is;
to develop real power and strength,
to become fit and healthy or
just cosmetic.

And how serious you are. Get yourself a protein powder to hinder catabolism and if want creatine is good but not a must.

Good luck!
 

Jack_the_Lad

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Alot of tjose small weights that gunner is talking about are for aerobics classes, they hold them in their hands and some little ankle weights to give them a little more resistance, but iit's seriously not considered strength training.
It's tur joining a gym is probaly the best way to motivate yourself, theres just too many distractions at home far too many reasons not too do anything

Good luck Jack
 
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Just for a counterpoint, you can build plenty of functional strength and strength-endurance without ever going to a gym.

You just cant do sh*t with those handweights (except maybe throw them at someone!).
 

Redbone

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Its so funny how people are always under the impression that the amount of weight you can lift is how cool you are. I have seen skinny guys trying to bench 225 with their buddies spotting the weight up on each rep, literally taking half the load off. I feel like saying why dont you let go of the bar and see how far he gets.

Bodybuilding is all about stimulating the muscle, some people would be amazed at what weights the pros use. Arnold who had the greatest chest of all time and stood 6'2 and 235lbs only benched 405lbs max and routinly worked out with 225lbs. These kids nowadays make me laugh, using every muscle in there body as well as there spotters to get the weight to move, so they can bragg to their friends at the bar later that they benched 245lbs.

Be true to yourself and use the proper form- Isolate that muscle and make it work through its full range to exhaustion. No more than 8-10 reps in good form for mass and size.

As one fellow told me " Its not how strong you are its how big you are."
 

Jack_the_Lad

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Still Arnolds 405lbs Max is still very impressive by my standards anyway. redbone I'm a bit like yourself in that I get a little annoyed watching young lads lifting weights arseways, thinking it's doing them the world of good. More than likely alot of this is trying to not look silly in front of everybody else, the exercises are for your own benefit not anybody else's, do it properly and get the gains.

I don't understand way everybody uses the bench press as the standard of strength, it's only one exercise and one musle group in the body. Anways(Rebone I'm going in tonight to find some of my Max lifts)

Later Jack 8)
 

Redbone

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Weight really does not matter Jack- Arnolds is impressive from my stand point also- I have been lifting for 15yrs and can press about 330lbs at 200lb drug free body weight, I have a heavy frame so its an ok bench but not an awesome bench in the weighlifting world. 500lb bench is the mark for a heavy drug using body builder or powerlifter, most casual lifters shoot for 300lbs and that can be seen on a daily basis at the gym.

Sounds Good Jack, let me know how you make out. I strive for perfect form so I can really Isolate the muscle- weight is just a means to stimulate growth. If my Max is 315 I will calculate it at 300 so I can get maximum form and isolation and I really pound it up with 100% intensity.

The most common misconception that average guys measure strength by is how much you can bench and how much you can curl. Bodybuilders measure strength by Deadlifts, bench presses and Squats.
 
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Interesting

From "Health for Life" website

Sets and Reps: The Magic Numbers

Much research has been done on rep and set numbers. And almost all of the studies agree—the ideal number of reps per set for building muscular size is 6 to 8. Some studies show comparable results up to 10 reps, but why do 10 if doing 6 to 8 produces the same results? Above 12 reps per set, rate of improvement is lower than with 6 to 8.

The ideal number of sets per exercise isn't quite as tightly tied down, but most studies point to 3 as optimum.

The High-Rep Myth, Part 1

You may read in some training books that, for optimum growth, you should do some sets at 6 to 8 reps and some at 15 to 20. Most authors give one of two explanations for the advice. They either say:

• The low-rep sets work the components of muscle cells associated with strength, and the higher-rep sets work the components associated with endurance; both contribute to muscle size.

or

• The low-rep sets work the ``fast-twitch" muscle fibers: the high-rep sets work the ``slow-twitch" fibers; doing both leads to more complete muscular development.

Neither explanation is consistent with physiological reality.

Although it is true that you can do high numbers of reps to work the endurance components of muscle cells, high numbers has to be in the hundreds, not tens! The 15-to-20 rep range is too high for efficient muscular size building, and way, way too low for endurance conditioning.

Same goes for the fast-twitch/slow-twitch argument. The fast-twitch fibers provide the power for explosive, short duration movements such as one set of bench press. The slow-twitch fibers provide power for prolonged, low-intensity activities such as jogging. Unless you are doing hundreds of reps, you are conditioning the fast-twitch fibers, not the slow.

Forget using the 15-to-20 rep range. Except for warming up and some forms of physical therapy, it's a waste of time.

The High-Rep Myth, Part 2

You know that recommendation about using high numbers of reps to build definition? Throw it out. It's based on the misguided notion that high numbers of reps will burn fat near the muscles being worked (the spot reduction myth), as well as promoting a higher level of muscle tone. Both assumptions are wrong.

Spot Reduction. There are few absolutes in this world, but here's one of them: Spot reducing doesn't work. Exercising any single muscle group doesn't burn enough calories to noticeable reduce fat. Furthermore, when fat stores do shrink, they do so all over the body—not just in the area worked.

To get rid of unwanted fat, regardless of where it is, one must perform movements that involve as many major muscle groups as possible—exercises like running, swimming, cycling, aerobic dance, or jumping rope—and do these consistently over a period of time.

High-rep sets don't burn localized fat.

Muscle Tone. Muscle tone is the degree to which your muscles remain contracted when you relax. Sounds like a contradiction, but it's not. Even when you're asleep, your muscles remain slightly tensed. Out-of-shape individuals have poor muscle tone—their level of muscular contraction at rest is low. Even if they're thin, their arms and legs tend to look sort of mushy. Highly fit individuals have good muscle tone—their level of muscular contraction at rest is high. As a result, their muscles tend to have the characteristic ``athleticî appearance.

Both high reps with low resistance and low reps with high resistance will produce comparable improvements in muscle tone. But which do you think is more efficient: doing 50 reps, or doing 6?

Reps and Definition. If high numbers of reps are not effective for producing maximum definition, what numbers are?

High definition is primarily a function of low bodyfat. All over the body, a fat layer covers the muscular layer underneath. You can work your muscles till you drop and you still won't look defined if you have a lot of fat on top of them. As explained above, the most effective way to lower your body fat is through a regular program of aerobic activity, not resistance work.

For improving definition, the question of reps is moot.



Reprinted from The Health For Life Training Advisor

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Jack_the_Lad

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Most bodybuilders do a bitof aerobic exercises aswell like running it's the quickest way to burn fat, anway weight training is just one part of balanced fittness regime
 

Axon

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I find the triceps, shoulders and legs to be the real "strength" muscles.
 

Redbone

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Rep count matters becasue we have two types of fibers in our muscles, fast twitch and slow twitch, everybody has different amounts. To find out which you have in a particular group take 80% of you max and lift, if you can do more than 8 reps you have mostly fast twitch if you can do less you have mostly slow twitch- Than train accordingly in the high rep range or the low rep range.

I have to go with Back, Legs and Chest as the strength muscles- they are the largest muscle groups in the body. You cant compare a 4 cylinder to a hemi V-8.
 
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Most "important muscles" depends on the function and qualities desired.

If you are kicking the crap out of someone with TKD kicks, one way of training.

If you are pushing linemen out of the way in the NFL, different answer, no?
 

Axon

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Pushing? Legs, Shoulders, Tris :) Chest and back to a lesser extent.

When I say Chest, I mean pectorials
 
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The other dimension to this question is how are the muscles to be used?

Lots of static contractions in wresting and certain elements of football.

Other activities not so much.

It all matters.
 

Trilidon

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I was 105 lbs a year and a half ago, im 140 now. All I do is push ups pull ups/chin ups crunches and alot of isometric workouts oh and jump rope

Also going to start boxing soon hopefully. Just doing some research on it lately, would like to get into it.

Now I just need to work on my horrible diet.
 
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