Puretech Health - Half Year Report - 08/30/2017

hairblues

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This is all such bullshit. What's with that dermatologist a**h** posting the "Rainn" packaging all excited, clearly insinuating a new product is imminent. Scams and bullshit, as far as the eye can see. There's probably a bunch of hype men for the various products in these very forums.

I'd rather be put in carbonite like Han Solo until we get hair loss sorted, watching all the "progress" and "breakthroughs" happen in real time is heartbreaking. My favorite time is when I'm asleep dreaming. Even today I was dreaming nicely and then I had that terrible moment upon waking and at the first twinkling of my real conciousness of like, "oh god, back to my real intractable problems, that are never ending." So yeah freeze me up and have Carrie Fisher rescue me when hair loss is a thing of the past and life is worth living again.

I don't think its scam or bullshit. This is how science works. Unfortunately time is not on everyones side when it comes to new treatments for anything but does not make it a scam.

Trust me I am disappointed this wont be out next year too. I had good response to medications but was looking forward to this being out sooner as opposed to later.
 

hanginginthewire

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I don't think its scam or bullshit. This is how science works. Unfortunately time is not on everyones side when it comes to new treatments for anything but does not make it a scam.

Trust me I am disappointed this wont be out next year too. I had good response to medications but was looking forward to this being out sooner as opposed to later.

You're right but it does seem like there's an element of falsely hyping things up - from the companies themselves - and then moving the goalposts. That's maybe not a "scam" but it's disingenuous at the very least. Also cruel.
 

Noisette

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Ladies and gentlemen

Here is the history of the reports from Puretech health

A) 7 April 2016 / Annual results for year ended 31 December 2015 :

• " Follica plans to initiate a registration study in the second half of 2016, with data read-out in 2017" .
• "If the data are favourable, Follica would potentially plan to seek FDA clearance in 2017,with commercial release to follow as soon as 2018 "

B) 7 September 2016 / Half-Yearly Report :
• " Clinical stage, expected to enter FDA pivotal / registration studies in the first half of 2017"

C) 6 April 2017 / Annual report and accounts 2016 :

" Follica is currently progressing the development of its proprietary treatment into a pre-pivotal pilot optimisation study
Follica is initiating a pilot optimisation study mid-year, with a pivotal trial expected to begin in the second half of 2017"

D) 30 August 2017 / Half-Yearly Report :
• " The Follica RAIN pivotal study is expected to commence in the first half of 2018, following the completion of an optimisation study that is expected to begin imminently "



To resume :

- Pilot optimatisation studies are needed to improve Phase 3 trials.
- Follica has delayed only one study which is the Follica Rain pivotal study (Phase 3).
The Follica Rain pivotal study is a study intended to provide evidence for a drug marketing approval.

- In their initial milestones : Follica Rain pivotal study was planned in the 1Q 2017 with a possible regulatory clearance planned in the 4Q 2017.

So, I presume that their pivotal study is initialy scheduled for 9 months. Maybe, in the very best case Follica Rain is on the market at the end of 2018. But I Think it would be on the market at the beginning of 2019.


DAVID STEINBERG (co-founder of Follica, Director) is a speaker at a conference (will take place at Boston in October). Maybe we can send a member to this event in order to ask him some news ???


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Follica.jpg
Follica2.jpg

Fol3.jpg
Fol2.jpg

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Fol4.jpg
 
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That Guy

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If Tsuji does come to fruitation in 2020 its too bad Follica wont be much competition. In theory it would be released at about the time Tsujis therapy is starting to spread.

A treatment like Follica is preferable for most.

It's an at-home treatment that requires a visit (or maybe a couple) to your dermatologist where you can get their end of the procedure done in the same day.

With Tsuji, it's going to be insanely expense, still region locked for several years, they have to take a chunk out of your head, and it takes weeks between visits.

but it would still have its share on the market for a long period. lets not delude ourselves, even assuming tsuji perfectly masters the cloning procedure and starts offering it in jan 2020, it will be years before its easily obtainable for most people. due to both logistics and price. what is the estimation of its price, tens of thousands of dollars? what percentage of people can, realistically, without counting on winning the lottery in the meantime (or selling their house), spend that money on hair?

People on here plug their ears to this reality and cope by saying they'd have no problem paying tens of thousands plus flying to and from Japan or staying in hotels.

Which 9/10 will absolutely have a problem with when faced with actually doing it.

The ones that will, will then surely be faced with every surgeon in Japan telling them they'll have to be on a waiting list that could back up more than a year — it's already like that with conventional transplants, depending where you go — people who aren't even able to wait between 9 - 18 months or so for Follica are somehow willing to wait probably 3 - 5 years for a technology that at this point, we don't have any guarantee will happen.

100% serious that I think there will be suicides if Tsuji either fails to multiply the correct human cells or people come to the realization that even if it comes out in 2020, it's still years away yet.
 

Omega2327

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@That Guy look I agree with most things you post and respect you as an active member of this forum. But I can't help but get the impression that you have some ill will towards the prospect of Tsuji's treatment.

they have to take a chunk out of your head
They have said it will be much less invasive than a hair transplant and that they can multiply by the thousands. With this logic, they would not need a "chunk" but more of a "punch".

The ones that will, will then surely be faced with every surgeon in Japan telling them they'll have to be on a waiting list that could back up more than a year
That is not necessarily true at all. If you're smart and keep up with this forum along with his team's updates, and you call at the earliest possible opportunity to book an appointment, there's no reason you can't be one of the first to be treated. If you're dumb and don't sign up quickly..... then sure, you'll probably get the boot to the back of the wait list.

I get that Tsuji won't be realistic for many because of the cost.. but it seems as though you're just focusing on the negatives in every aspect and at times looking for reasons for why it's not ideal. Perhaps you're doing it as a means of subconsciously justifying not getting it for yourself because it's not a viable option for you. Yes, it is more expensive than Follica... but you get what you pay for. Tsuji is a cure, where as Follica is most definitely not. You can't even put them in the same league in terms of effectiveness.
 

That Guy

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They have said it will be much less invasive than a hair transplant and that they can multiply by the thousands. With this logic, they would not need a "chunk" but more of a "punch".

Any treatment that requires a biopsy and wait time on that biopsy is less desireable unless it is literally your only option.

That is not necessarily true at all. If you're smart and keep up with this forum along with his team's updates, and you call at the earliest possible opportunity to book an appointment, there's no reason you can't be one of the first to be treated. If you're dumb and don't sign up quickly..... then sure, you'll probably get the boot to the back of the wait list.

You don't think other people, especially in Japan, will hatch the same plan?

I'm sorry, but anyone who would expect to be toward the front of the line just because they're trying to get at it early is naive, there is a significant element of chance here. Sure you can increase your odds, but you talk like it's a surefire thing — it's not.

I get that Tsuji won't be realistic for many because of the cost.. but it seems as though you're just focusing on the negatives in every aspect and at times looking for reasons for why it's not ideal

I don't have to look for reasons/disadvantages because they are obvious.

Tsuji is a cure, where as Follica is most definitely not. You can't even put them in the same league in terms of effectiveness.

You have no idea that Follica is "definitely not" a cure, especially give that what results amount to a cure are open to a high degree of subjectivity when it comes to hairloss. A cure is anything that relieves you of the symptoms of the disease even if you have to perpetually use some device or meds. To people with hairloss, certain amounts of the condition are acceptable.

For some, NW2 or a bit of diffuse is just fine and a treatment that would take them back to it or maintain it is acceptable.

Some are more lenient than that; others are more stringent.

If the "hair primordium" technology works out, it could give you theoretically any amount of hair you desire.

With Follica, at least by their own reports and science that confirms the basis of their tech, there is also theoretically no reason why you shouldn't be able achieve normal density. Now, it is likely that the first generation of the tech won't be able to achieve this with just one session, but the only thing that has held the wounding tech "back", if you see it that way, is a lack of research and interest in research surrounding the specifics of wounding and compounds that amplify the effect; either way, it does grow hair and will no doubt be a solution for many people.

Most people are also not high norwoods and would see little point in paying for something like Tsuji when cheaper alternatives that give them the results or very damn near the results they need. So I stand by my point that Tsuji is not going to have the entire market cornered.

Lastly, what are you people going to do if Tsuji fails?

Because when it comes to hair cloning, there is literally no one else bringing you that therapy before you're old, bald(er), and your youth is but a distant memory.
 

nameless

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They should all go to jail.

There is still Replicel and Kerastem for the short term. One of them could hit the market in 2018.

I admit that I thought that Follica would be marketed in late 2018 and now I think it will be late 2019 at the earliest.
 
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hellouser

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I admit that I thought that Follica would be marketed late 2018 and now I think late 2019 at the earliest.

The crazy thing is, they don't really have to rush for 2018... I mean they should (for our sake) but given that Tsuji's date is slated for 2020, as long as their product is released before that, they're fine. However, if they come around the time of Tsuji or later... they are going to get hammered.
 

nameless

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@That Guy I get that Tsuji won't be realistic for many because of the cost.. but it seems as though you're just focusing on the negatives in every aspect and at times looking for reasons for why it's not ideal. Perhaps you're doing it as a means of subconsciously justifying not getting it for yourself because it's not a viable option for you. Yes, it is more expensive than Follica... but you get what you pay for. Tsuji is a cure, where as Follica is most definitely not. You can't even put them in the same league in terms of effectiveness.

Ditto.
 

nameless

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The crazy thing is, they don't really have to rush for 2018... I mean they should (for our sake) but given that Tsuji's date is slated for 2020, as long as their product is released before that, they're fine. However, if they come around the time of Tsuji or later... they are going to get hammered.

+1.

No way Rain can compete aganst Tsuji.
 

sunchyme1

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However, if they come around the time of Tsuji or later... they are going to get hammered.

why though?

tsjui, if it does work and comes out on time, will too expensive for most people for a long *** time

they dont even need to hit the market before 2020
 

That Guy

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Comparing Follica to Tsuji is a mistake; one not only works but will be released, while the other is still in efficacy trials and there is nothing to suggest they are getting ready for market (if they really thought 2018 was realistic, we'd see them making the same marketing noises as Follica has).

I never root against anything; who roots against their own interest? I still hope Histogen works. But it's dangerous for people to make the same assumptions of Tsuji that we do of Follica.

Slight correction; Tsuji's team has their sights set on 2020, not 2018. Difference of 2 years, but still worth pointing out.

Another aspect that people forget is that, and this is the only "marketing noise" they've really made, is the announcement of their partnership with the electronics company, Kyocera.

"Tsuji" is a business deal between 3 companies, and the more companies in a business deal, the greater the potential for one not keeping up their end of the deal (Replicel & Shiseido) and dragging everything down for years.

There are a lot of "what ifs" at play. What if their cell culturing technique doesn't work for human cells? What if there is some other technological setback? What if one company pulls out of the deal? What if one lags behind? Etc.

and these kinds of problems happen literally every day and this deal is far from immune to it.
 

H

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While I do hope Follica turns out to be everything you want them to be, most of these are assumptions. Let's take a look.
A treatment like Follica is preferable for most.
Now I believe you say this because in-home would be less of a hassle then it being completely in-office totally understand. The thing I think about is that this is dermarolling and some type of min compound to our knowledge right now this is what its based on. We can maybe assume maybe that on average you will get roughly results like the dhurat study hopefully but there's no guarantees and we have dermarolling and minoxidil right now and this site is still active as ever. Alot of people may need more hair then this could provide and some people hate min for itchiness, irritation, or whatever their reasons they will tread lightly.
With Tsuji, it's going to be insanely expense
In my opinion for the treatment alone its going to be expensive but I don't think it's going to be outrageous. One may say "well they can charge whatever they want they're the only thing to come out in 30 years", "there will be multiple trips to the clinic", "they could only have a few customers a day and still make bank by charging alot", every single one of these applies to Follica also.
surely be faced with every surgeon in Japan telling them they'll have to be on a waiting list that could back up more than a year — it's already like that with conventional transplants, depending where you go
Why would this not happen with Follica? I don't know about you but just to get a check up from a derm it take me like 3 months and they look at me 3 minutes tell me "ah what rotten luck" and kick me out. Follica whatever it entails I am sure will take longer and IF it were to be spectacular regrowth which it could be (idk how they are optimizing it but all we have to fall back on relatively is dermarolling we've seen) and worth most baldness sufferers time and that includes all types and stages then we are going to see a waiting list all the same as Tsuji. Also just like Tsuji it will take time for it to spread across the country and have many trained dermatologists covering the therapy. If only 20 are certified think of the waiting list then. Some wont even be interested they have other focuses and that's if it doesn't just produce sparse diffuse hair and is significant. Hell if people can settle for a little hair here and there, if that's what happens, with that's scenarios waiting list we are still fucked.
we don't have any guarantee will happen.
We actually don't have any solid for sure guarantee Follica is going to happen either its a probability but not a guarantee. It really doesn't mean anything but Ive heard of Kyocera and Riken there work and products on the mainstream for years before this ailment even afflicted me. I found out about little Puretech by digging through here... I have a little more interest in Riken and Kyocera.
I hope it does work out for you man and many others but I just don't think it's going to turn the tides of hair loss at least not for me and others like me or close to my perspective.

Oh but I do agree the traveling to Japan for the entirety of the Tsuji treatment would be a b**ch that idk how people will swing that
 
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