Potential effective treatments and cures for male pattern baldness.

[Mitko1]

If you wonder what would be the cure for male pattern baldness it would be inducing permanent atrophy to surrounding muscles that chronicly contract in some way like:

- Correcting your posture. Since male pattern baldness is caused by poor posture habits due to poor craniofacial development doing posture exercices to change your posture habits would be really helpful to stop further hair loss and increase hair count.

- Other new surgical or non surgical method.

What would be effective treatments for male pattern baldness

- Massaging the surrounding scalp muscles to relax them using your hands. You can massage both the galea and the donor area. Massaging the galea would help break up calcifiaction and reverse fibrosis. You have to massage for at least 8 months for at least 10 minutes a day to see results.

- Injecting bottox in the scalp muscles. This will prvent the surrounding muscles to contract and will stop further hair loss and increase hair count.

 

[Hairful]

Lol the jokes don’t stop

 

[Mitko1]

@Ritchie I know about a case of someone that regrew his hair to Norwood 1 and this is Somebody Alex. And of course he doesn't look the same as someone who is programmed to stay Norwood 1. His galea to me looks kinda huge. And wide of course.

He was indeed thinning and receding badly.

Of course his craniofacial development is not good. He has very improper inclinations of his cheekbones despite having good jaw and wide space between the eyes. Look how flat looks his face.

And from the sides it looks like this.

I don't think that men who are naturally destined to stay Norwood 1 can have galeas like this. He doesn't have very long hair and it's pulled back so you can clearly see the shape.

A brilliant example of a flat galea is Theo Rossi. Even with longer hair to me it doesn't look the same at all.

 

[Renovation]

If you wonder what would be the cure for male pattern baldness it would be inducing permanent atrophy to surrounding muscles that chronicly contract is some way like:

- Correcting your posture. Since male pattern baldness is caused by poor posture habits due to poor craniofacial development doing posture exercices to change your posture habits would be really helpful to stop further hair loss and increase hair count.

- Other new surgical or non surgical method.

What would be effective treatments for male pattern baldness

- Massaging the surrounding scalp muscles to relax them using your hands. You can massage both the galea and the donor area. Massaging the galea would help break up calcifiaction and reverse fibrosis. You have to massage for at least 8 months for at least 10 minutes a day to see results.

- Injecting bottox in the scalp muscles. This will prevent the surrounding muscles to contract and will stop further hair loss and increase hair count.

I may not agree with your galea/jawline theory but I strongly agree poor posture is 100 percent a major contributor to baldness. What this is due to is another question.

I see it loads of times every single day. About 90 percent of bald men I see have rounded shoulders and forward head posture.

Once you see it you can't unsee it, it's undeniable.

 

[Mitko1]

@Ritchie Henry Cavill is another proof how strong the galea factor is. He is very handsome and has very good craniofacial development. I can't see any improper inclination. Despite this the chronic contractions of the surrounding muscles are still chocking his hair follicles. I think that he's receding because of how poorly shaped his galea is. Just look what kind of galea he has.

That's why his frontotempolar recession is so bad.

It advanced over the years but I think that it would stop at this point. And further hairloss won't occur.

 

[pochkopmo]

You do no good to people who believe in the scalp tension theory calling everything galea. You just give the magic follicle cult more reasons to talk sh*t.
The galea is just a thin layer of tissue on top of the skull, not even as thick as the skin. There's no way it plays any role in the shape of your head.
What you might be interested in analyzing is the shape of the skull (which also grows as you age).

The galea definetly plays a major role, but I think the main culprit is the shape of the skull. If you look at the skull shape of bald people you'll notice how they always have big round skulls at the top. Either the bowling ball shape, or the elongated shape with a "bump" at the top (eggshape),

conversely, the people with heads full of hair keep a skull size in line with their face.

Regardless of their face shape, their skull isn't oversized, and they always have a "flat" dome, compared to the pointy or circular one of the bald population.

Just my 5 cents.

 

[Mitko1]

You do no good to people who believe in the scalp tension theory calling everything galea. You just give the magic follicle cult more reasons to talk sh*t.
The galea is just a thin layer of tissue on top of the skull, not even as thick as the skin. There's no way it plays any role in the shape of your head.
What you might be interested in analyzing is the shape of the skull (which also grows as you age).View attachment 182925

The galea definetly plays a major role, but I think the main culprit is the shape of the skull. If you look at the skull shape of bald people you'll notice how they always have big round skulls at the top. Either the bowling ball shape, or the elongated shape with a "bump" at the top (eggshape),
View attachment 182926
View attachment 182927
conversely, the people with heads full of hair keep a skull size in line with their face.
View attachment 182928
View attachment 182929
View attachment 182930
Regardless of their face shape, their skull isn't oversized, and they always have a "flat" dome, compared to the pointy or circular one of the bald population.

Just my 5 cents.

That's what I was talking about. I call galea the non muscular area of the scalp and I notice that it's different in balding men.

 

[Hairful]

You guys should be surprised

They transplant hairs from the back to the harsh galea and the hairs stay there permanently

Your galea must be blown away learning this hahaha

 

[pochkopmo]

You guys should be surprised

They transplant hairs from the back to the harsh galea and the hairs stay there permanently

Your galea must be blown away learning this hahaha

What is a 'harsh galea'? Another magic-follicle cultist with no brain.
Ask any dermatologist specialized in hair loss treatment, do a quick google even. All hair transplants into 'lost' zones need Propecia or else you start losing again.

 

[pochkopmo]

That's what I was talking about. I call galea the non muscular area of the scalp and I notice that it's different in balding men.

Then you're spot on. One thing i've noticed is the tension in my scalp decresases just after i take a shower, similarly, prior to taking finasteride, massaging the muscles in my scalp (sides and back, specially sides) felt very relaxing, they were very thight and they felt 'puffed out' compared to now, they simply feel flat and i don't feel much from hard massages.

One thing i've been wondering of, is the effect of androgens on scalp tissue. How do they interact with the DHT and could they possibly replace them? Per example Tea tree oil and lavander are known to have powerful estrogenic like properties, so much so that they are able to produce gyno in children.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/lavender-tea-tree-oils-may-cause-breast-growth-boys#:~:text=A study published in this,which a cause is seldom
The question is how do these two interact, and if androgenic properties could help release tension, or displace the DHT? Regardless of the answer, these two have anti oxidant properties.

 

[Hairful]

What is a 'harsh galea'? Another magic-follicle cultist with no brain.

Ask this Mitko guy, he is obsessed with galeas lmoa

Surgeons don’t do hair transplants for younger patients because their hairloss continues and the transplanted hairline looks weird with no hairs behind it. Transplanted hairs are permanent if taken from DHT indifferent areas.

 

[Renovation]

Then you're spot on. One thing i've noticed is the tension in my scalp decresases just after i take a shower, similarly, prior to taking finasteride, massaging the muscles in my scalp (sides and back, specially sides) felt very relaxing, they were very thight and they felt 'puffed out' compared to now, they simply feel flat and i don't feel much from hard massages.

One thing i've been wondering of, is the effect of androgens on scalp tissue. How do they interact with the DHT and could they possibly replace them? Per example Tea tree oil and lavander are known to have powerful estrogenic like properties, so much so that they are able to produce gyno in children.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/lavender-tea-tree-oils-may-cause-breast-growth-boys#:~:text=A study published in this,which a cause is seldom
The question is how do these two interact, and if androgenic properties could help release tension, or displace the DHT? Regardless of the answer, these two have anti oxidant properties.

One thing I've noticed very recently is when trying to massage and loosen the top of the scalp, pulling down to stretch the skin is a better idea than 'pushing up' like I was doing before. Its makes sense as the stretching will inevitably cause a loosening effect.

In theory, the looser the scalp the less DHT. Therefore yes anti androgen drugs help some people, but lowering DHT activity long term by reducing scalp tension through massage and posture correction is the long (very long) term solution.

There is a reason DHT is found in increased amounts locally when someone injures their knee/elbow/ankle. The reason is the body's response to fibrosis triggers the release of DHT, and it's certainly not due to pre determined sensitivity to androgens. The DHT (locally as in around the injured ligament) is then lowered with injury recovery, and in theory same thing with the scalp, reduce tension/fibrosis = reduce local (scalp) DHT.

 

[pochkopmo]

Ask this Mitko guy, he is obsessed with galeas lmoa

Surgeons don’t do hair transplants for younger patients because their hairloss continues and the transplanted hairline looks weird with no hairs behind it. Transplanted hairs are permanent if taken from DHT indifferent areas.

Hair transplants (hair transplant) involve the surgical transfer of non-Androgenetic Alopecia-affected scalp hair follicles from the sides and backs of the scalp to Androgenetic Alopecia-affected tissues. hair transplant hair count survival rates can exceed 90% one year after surgery [84]. If calcification and fibrosis are the rate-limiting factors to Androgenetic Alopecia recovery, then why do hair transplant donor hairs not miniaturize? This is answered with the model.
hair transplant surgeries transplant more than just the hair follicle itself. Follicular unit grafts (FUG) procedures transplant “1–4 terminal hair follicles, one (or rarely two) vellus follicles, associated sebaceous lobules, insertion of erector pili muscle, [and the] perifollicular neurovascular network” [85]. Follicular unit extraction (FUE) procedures target singular follicles more specifically, typically with a 1 mm punch [86]. In either case, tissues surrounding each donor hair follicle are also transplanted.

hair transplant donor tissue sites are not above the GA, and are therefore not under the same chronic tension before their transplantation – implying an absence of perifollicular fibrosis or dermal sheath thickening present in Androgenetic Alopecia-affected tissues. Androgenetic Alopecia progression is a decades-long process. If most transplanted donor hair follicles survive one year after hair transplantation, it’s likely these hair transplant follicles have not yet had enough time under tension exposure for fibrosis or dermal sheath thickening onset, and thereby hair follicle miniaturization.

One study comparing characteristics of transplanted hairs to and from legs and balding scalps found that “the recipient site influences the growth characteristics of transplanted hairs” [87], with “the thickness of the epidermis, dermis, or subcutaneous tissue, blood supply, or other factors play[ing] a role in survival and growth rate differences.” Another team showed that balding human vellus hair regenerates just as well – and sometimes better – on immunodeficient mice versus terminal human hair [88]. This implies that tissue environment surrounding hair follicles impacts follicle functionality, and that a rate-limiting recovery factor exists in Androgenetic Alopecia tissues. Therefore, hair transplant success fits in-line with the model, and decades-long studies are still needed to determine the true fate of transplanted donor hairs.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411

The galea is merely one of the symptoms. I'm not interested in it. We are looking into the roots of the issue, a skull growth and DHT induced tension in the surrounding muscle. If you don't think it makes sense, you don't want to discuss it, or propose possible treatments, why are you even here? Ask for Mitko's number if you're that much into him

One thing I've noticed very recently is when trying to massage and loosen the top of the scalp, pulling down to stretch the skin is a better idea than 'pushing up' like I was doing before. Its makes sense as the stretching will inevitably cause a loosening effect.

In theory, the looser the scalp the less DHT. Therefore yes anti androgen drugs help some people, but lowering DHT activity long term by reducing scalp tension through massage and posture correction is the long (very long) term solution.

There is a reason DHT is found in increased amounts locally when someone injures their knee/elbow/ankle. The reason is the body's response to fibrosis triggers the release of DHT, and it's certainly not due to pre determined sensitivity to androgens. The DHT (locally as in around the injured ligament) is then lowered with injury recovery, and in theory same thing with the scalp, reduce tension/fibrosis = reduce local (scalp) DHT.

If the issue is fibrosis/blood vessel calcification, i would say it doesn't matter a lot the direction so long as you 'break' down the tissue. I used to 'push' the skin very hard but realized that doesn't accomplish a lot and might actually do harm, now i just make my hands a cup and pinch and stretch the skin.

What i wonder about is what the true role of finasteride is all of this. I've been thinking lately and the fact that people respond so differently to finasteride makes perfect sense going by this hypothesis. If we classify finasteride responders into three levels, regrowth, hair loss stoppage/slowed, and no effect, in the first case the root cause might be merely in the dht-estimulated muscle, the second one, a bad skull combined with some muscle induced thightness (plus reduced androgenic response to the inflammation) , and the third one, a skull so big that not even reducing the DHT or the muscle thightness can help.

While i agree that scalp tension is the sole root, i've been wondering if massages really accomplish anything in regards to 'stretching'. I would say doing them in the dome of the scalp helps with regrowth in a way similar that needling does, they break the tissue and stimulate regrowth, but it's merely a way to 'fight' one of the symptoms (calcification-fibrosis) rather than actually relieving the tension. Some people say that doing them in the surrounding scalp muscles (sides/back) can help bring down the thightness, it's muscle after all, but asides from some dude claiming regrowth in this forum, there's not much information out there. It would be nice to have a study done on how hard massage to the sides/back of the scalp changes the scalp tension.

The goal at the end of the day is reducing the tension induced DHT, you're right.

 

[Hairful]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411
View attachment 182953
The galea is merely one of the symptoms. I'm not interested in it. We are looking into the roots of the issue, a skull growth and DHT induced tension in the surrounding muscle. If you don't think it makes sense, you don't want to discuss it, or propose possible treatments, why are you even here? Ask for Mitko's number if you're that much into him


If the issue is fibrosis/blood vessel calcification, i would say it doesn't matter a lot the direction so long as you 'break' down the tissue. I used to 'push' the skin very hard but realized that doesn't accomplish a lot and might actually do harm, now i just make my hands a cup and pinch and stretch the skin.

What i wonder about is what the true role of finasteride is all of this. I've been thinking lately and the fact that people respond so differently to finasteride makes perfect sense going by this hypothesis. If we classify finasteride responders into three levels, regrowth, hair loss stoppage/slowed, and no effect, in the first case the root cause might be merely in the dht-estimulated muscle, the second one, a bad skull combined with some muscle induced thightness (plus reduced androgenic response to the inflammation) , and the third one, a skull so big that not even reducing the DHT or the muscle thightness can help.

While i agree that scalp tension is the sole root, i've been wondering if massages really accomplish anything in regards to 'stretching'. I would say doing them in the dome of the scalp helps with regrowth in a way similar that needling does, they break the tissue and stimulate regrowth, but it's merely a way to 'fight' one of the symptoms (calcification-fibrosis) rather than actually relieving the tension. Some people say that doing them in the surrounding scalp muscles (sides/back) can help bring down the thightness, it's muscle after all, but asides from some dude claiming regrowth in this forum, there's not much information out there. It would be nice to have a study done on how hard massage to the sides/back of the scalp changes the scalp tension.

The goal at the end of the day is reducing the tension induced DHT, you're right.

Doesn’t mean BS theories should be entertained.

 

[Renovation]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411
View attachment 182953
The galea is merely one of the symptoms. I'm not interested in it. We are looking into the roots of the issue, a skull growth and DHT induced tension in the surrounding muscle. If you don't think it makes sense, you don't want to discuss it, or propose possible treatments, why are you even here? Ask for Mitko's number if you're that much into him


If the issue is fibrosis/blood vessel calcification, i would say it doesn't matter a lot the direction so long as you 'break' down the tissue. I used to 'push' the skin very hard but realized that doesn't accomplish a lot and might actually do harm, now i just make my hands a cup and pinch and stretch the skin.

What i wonder about is what the true role of finasteride is all of this. I've been thinking lately and the fact that people respond so differently to finasteride makes perfect sense going by this hypothesis. If we classify finasteride responders into three levels, regrowth, hair loss stoppage/slowed, and no effect, in the first case the root cause might be merely in the dht-estimulated muscle, the second one, a bad skull combined with some muscle induced thightness (plus reduced androgenic response to the inflammation) , and the third one, a skull so big that not even reducing the DHT or the muscle thightness can help.

While i agree that scalp tension is the sole root, i've been wondering if massages really accomplish anything in regards to 'stretching'. I would say doing them in the dome of the scalp helps with regrowth in a way similar that needling does, they break the tissue and stimulate regrowth, but it's merely a way to 'fight' one of the symptoms (calcification-fibrosis) rather than actually relieving the tension. Some people say that doing them in the surrounding scalp muscles (sides/back) can help bring down the thightness, it's muscle after all, but asides from some dude claiming regrowth in this forum, there's not much information out there. It would be nice to have a study done on how hard massage to the sides/back of the scalp changes the scalp tension.

The goal at the end of the day is reducing the tension induced DHT, you're right.

I agree with a lot of what you've said. I believe massages in all directions on the thinning area can be counterproductive as your literally squeezing into already miniaturised follicles which are surrounded by DHT, in an attempt to break down the calcification and fibrosis.

I did this for a while in the hope in it would break down the fibrosis and calcification, but now I stretch down around this area to attempt eventually loosen the skin on which the thinning hairs are on to in theory counteract the tension and hence fibrosis/calcification and ultimately DHT over the long term. I also supplement magnesium to (potentially) help with calcification.

I also massage below this area, in the area where my hair is still thick, and around neck and cervical/thoracic spine and try to keep a good posture which all together should help to reduce the tension.

In terms of anti DHT drugs , it fits the theory perfectly like you said. There has never been a scientific link showing hairloss being directly related to high levels of DHT. The fact DHT is high in cases of male pattern baldness does not prove cause before effect imo there may well be a bit of both ie DHT is formed through what we are discussing with scalp tension and is accelerated in certain individuals with androgen sensitivity but even if this is the case, reducing the tension is still the long term solution.

I don't think massages do ultimately help loosen up the skin, or even reduce the fibrosis. But recently the stretching I've done may be helping but it's to early to tell. I honestly think pulling and stretching down on the scalp should eventually loosen the top area in the same way elbow and knee skin is stretched loose over years on being pulled and stretched by the joints (to a much higher degree obviously!)

 

[Hairful]

How long until the OP suggests the massage machine as cure?

 

[whatintheworld]

OP is probably ugly as sin and wears a bag over his head in public.

 

[pochkopmo]

Doesn’t mean BS theories should be entertained.

Cool. Which part do you disagree with?

I agree with a lot of what you've said. I believe massages in all directions on the thinning area can be counterproductive as your literally squeezing into already miniaturised follicles which are surrounded by DHT, in an attempt to break down the calcification and fibrosis.

I did this for a while in the hope in it would break down the fibrosis and calcification, but now I stretch down around this area to attempt eventually loosen the skin on which the thinning hairs are on to in theory counteract the tension and hence fibrosis/calcification and ultimately DHT over the long term. I also supplement magnesium to (potentially) help with calcification.

I also massage below this area, in the area where my hair is still thick, and around neck and cervical/thoracic spine and try to keep a good posture which all together should help to reduce the tension.

In terms of anti DHT drugs , it fits the theory perfectly like you said. There has never been a scientific link showing hairloss being directly related to high levels of DHT. The fact DHT is high in cases of male pattern baldness does not prove cause before effect imo there may well be a bit of both ie DHT is formed through what we are discussing with scalp tension and is accelerated in certain individuals with androgen sensitivity but even if this is the case, reducing the tension is still the long term solution.

I don't think massages do ultimately help loosen up the skin, or even reduce the fibrosis. But recently the stretching I've done may be helping but it's to early to tell. I honestly think pulling and stretching down on the scalp should eventually loosen the top area in the same way elbow and knee skin is stretched loose over years on being pulled and stretched by the joints (to a much higher degree obviously!)

I think that it could be both ways in regards to massage. Squeezing pulls the skin in, making it tighter around, relieving pressure from the center, expanding it does the opposite but around the outside zone. Ultimately we sadly have no real data, but I agree that one should be careful with these things specially if the areas you massage still have hair. Similarly to needling, 1.5 is recommended but I wouldn't do it that deep in still dense areas, better safe than sorry

 

[Mitko1]

@Ritchie Also when Theo Rossi shaves his head it doesn't look the same as Bruce Willis or John Travolta.

 

[Renovation]

Cool. Which part do you disagree with?


I think that it could be both ways in regards to massage. Squeezing pulls the skin in, making it tighter around, relieving pressure from the center, expanding it does the opposite but around the outside zone. Ultimately we sadly have no real data, but I agree that one should be careful with these things specially if the areas you massage still have hair. Similarly to needling, 1.5 is recommended but I wouldn't do it that deep in still dense areas, better safe than sorry

Yes I get what you mean about the squeezing I'm just laying of any pressure applied on the thinnest areas and focussing on stretching the skin to loosen up from the surface and also relieving any tight muscles which have been pulling it downwards for years due to bad posture etc.

No real data and I don't see any being widely published anytime soon, all I see is endless new companies rebranding the big 3.

a simple experiment would be to sample a large number of balding and non balding scalps and compare the scalp hardness. But even then people would argue it's an after effect of DHT brought on solely by androgen sensitivity and genetics.

I don't agree entirely with the OPs galea theory but one good thing is it has sparked new discussions here about scalp tension in general.