Post SSRI syndrome vs. post Finasteride syndrome

[Quantum Cat]

I came across something called post SSRI (antidepressants) syndrome - the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-SSRI_sexual_dysfunction

it's supposedly causes permanent sexual side effects once stopping, like some people claim Finasteride does. This is slightly worrying for me as I take an SSRI

what struck me is that the reported chance of getting sides from SSRIs - possibly 60% - is way higher than finasteride's 2%, even if you believe the 2% figure to be conservative. Plus the number of people who take antidepressants dwarfs the number who take finasteride/propecia - there are millions worldwide who take SSRIs and doctors seem to have very few qualms about prescribing them to people. Even a general practioner can prescribe them without seeking a pysychiatrist's opinion.

yet it's the post-Finasteride syndrome that the media and people across the internet are whipping themselves up into a hysteria over, and drawing up lawsuits over - not the incredibly commonly prescribed SSRIs.

:dunno: kind of odd? And puts it into perspective

 

[Kuit]

i had ssri syndrome. It was taken 8 months to get normal libido again.. i never believed it was permanent and so it didn't. I had medications like Lexapro, fluvoxamine, rispedal, haldol, wellbutrin, seroquel for a very long time, high dose. Rispedal was the worst of all and in my opinion haldol kills your libido directly.

and still i had good boners and sex everyday then, but the feeling is less.. that's all.

And why is it in the media? Ssri helps people with there depression or anxiety. If it works, they will consider less boners and more happy thoughts. People that takes finasteride are people with mostly good health. The contrast is higher. When you always had good health and now you haven't because of the medication, it will come extra hard.

For me ssri syndrome wasn't sooo bad, the only real bad thing about it when i was on fluvoxamine high dose my coordination was gone for a couple of hours and everything was turning like i was going crazy, i couldn't walk or see straight..

 

[Quantum Cat]

you were on all those meds? wow. what do you take now?

 

[Fanjeera]

Just check your bilirubin and go to the doctor. Yellowish eyes are a sign of a more serious sickness.

 

[Admin]

Timi .... you dont have "Liver Failure". If you did you would be dead. Stop exaggerating please. I don't want uninformed people surfing through this site and seeing you making false claims about your health problems, including the previous "Completely numb from the waist down" comment. We try to stick to rational thought here. Adverse events with Propecia are real, but some people *die* from taking a v****, so perspective and reality need to be maintained.

Admin

 

[Admin]

I guess I will repeat myself for the 4th time in the 3rd thread since you don't seem to be understanding:

You may have had adverse effects, but you are *NOT* completely numb from the waist down, and you do *NOT* have liver failure.

Please keep your comments truthful, or I will need to disable your ability to speak here. I wont repeat this again.

Admin

 

[IrishFella]

^^

I think Timi gets lost in translation as he doesn't know a lick of English and uses Google Translate.

 

[WhereDaHair]

When I was noticing my sex drive at a very low level I started doing some researching. The first things I found were websites stating Propecia and Zoloft were related to these issues. Anyway... at the time I was taking the 1mg Propecia AND 150mg Zoloft and I up and quit both cold turkey the same day!

Could that have something to do with experiencing what I refer to as a "crash" (got worse) AFTER discontinuing?


Then again, I thought I read that some people believe that taking an SSRI along with finasteride can help to offset adverse effects of finasterdie- something about upregulating allopregnanalone or something?...

I don't know if I made my question clear let me know if I should elaborate

 

[Keaphare]

When I was noticing my sex drive at a very low level I started doing some researching. The first things I found were websites stating Propecia and Zoloft were related to these issues. Anyway... at the time I was taking the 1mg Propecia AND 150mg Zoloft and I up and quit both cold turkey the same day!

Could that have something to do with experiencing what I refer to as a "crash" (got worse) AFTER discontinuing?


Then again, I thought I read that some people believe that taking an SSRI along with finasteride can help to offset adverse effects of finasterdie- something about upregulating allopregnanalone or something?...

I don't know if I made my question clear let me know if I should elaborate

I've been on finasteride and different antidepressanats for years. Certain antidepressants are worse than others and we all respond to them differently. However, the following antidepressants do not effect sex drive: Mirtazapine, Bupropian, Mocoblemide, and a new drug called Agomelatine. When I was on Mirtazapine, my libido picked up and erections were much better "despite" being on 1.25mg of finasteride. Unfortunately, I had to stop it because I put on 20kg and it was increasing my liver enzymes.

You should NEVER go off an antidepressant, such as an SSRI cold turkey. Rather, taper off with your doctors advice and decide if you are ready, and can cope without them. If you still feel depressed, try one of those antidepressants without sexual side effects.

 

[rudimentary]

What I'm about to say is very controversial.

I believe anti-depressants, SSRIs, Anxiolytics are being mass-prescribed irresponsibly to people who don't really need them.

I understand there might be patients who truly need them, but we are popping these pills in like it's candy nowadays, without thinking of the long-term consequences, and without looking into psychological therapy as a first resource.

There have been many studies that state exercise and proper nutrition are just as, if not more effective than drugs at combating depression and anxiety.

My uncle committed suicide while on Zoloft 3 years ago. His depression was made worse by the drug and he couldn't take it anymore, so he overdosed on a bottle of Ritalin. It even says it on the label: Might cause depression, thoughts of suicide, etc. *Computer does not compute*.

There are even *gasp* natural treatments like St. John's Wort which have been proven to be just as effective as Prozac in managing the symptoms of depression, side effect free.


http://www.dukehealth.org/health_library/news/300

http://blogs.mcgill.ca/oss/2007/09/24/exercise-just-as-effective-as-anti-depressants/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-depression-say-scientists.html#axzz2KH6g88E0

 

[BlackSheep]

^ My condolences for the loss of your uncle rudi. I do agree with you that these medications are over-prescribed because many people who are depressed are so because of life circumstances and not a biological depletion of neurotransmitters. I don't agree that natural treatments are a viable option, like SJW. That thing interacts with more drugs than you'd care to remember. It's a thorn in the side of medical practitioners.

Also, therapy is actually a first line treatment route for many conditions, such as anxiety. At least in the UK. Even with depression, antidepressants tend to be prescribed only if a person displays more than 5 of the 9 major symptoms, which include suicide idealising. So, it makes sense to give those people antidepressants and ensuring their safety.

I came across something called post SSRI (antidepressants) syndrome - the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-SSRI_sexual_dysfunction

it's supposedly causes permanent sexual side effects once stopping, like some people claim Finasteride does. This is slightly worrying for me as I take an SSRI

what struck me is that the reported chance of getting sides from SSRIs - possibly 60% - is way higher than finasteride's 2%, even if you believe the 2% figure to be conservative. Plus the number of people who take antidepressants dwarfs the number who take finasteride/propecia - there are millions worldwide who take SSRIs and doctors seem to have very few qualms about prescribing them to people. Even a general practioner can prescribe them without seeking a pysychiatrist's opinion.

yet it's the post-Finasteride syndrome that the media and people across the internet are whipping themselves up into a hysteria over, and drawing up lawsuits over - not the incredibly commonly prescribed SSRIs.

:dunno: kind of odd? And puts it into perspective

80% of people on SSRI's are totally fine. Of the 20% that have side-effects, they are mostly gastrointestinal disturbances and they disappear after two weeks or so.

From rummaging online I don't think the chance of a libido crash, erectile dysfunction issue or what have you is anywhere near 60%, which supports the data I'm familiar with.

I don't know the exact mechanism of SSRI use effect on sexual performance, but it's an indirect one if IIRC. SSRI's work on receptors for serotonin, a neurotransmitter which has all sorts of functions. Presumably the increased neuronal excitation of the serotonin hampers erection and libido? I don't know. With all these anti-androgen drugs OTOH you have a direct mode of action on sexual performance. DHT is after all more potent than testosterone.

 

[Quantum Cat]

I agree that antidepressants are probably overprescribed to many people who don't really need them. I'm amazed whenever I go visit the USA and I see drugs like Prozac being advertised - on the side of buses and on TV - 'Feeling down, go ask your doctor to give you....' That simply would not be allowed in the UK. :freaked2:

I'm quitting the SSRI soon - if it's a choice between antidepressants and Propecia, I'd go with finasteride any day. No amount of Prozac would be able to counter the depression caused by balding

 

[rudimentary]

^ My condolences for the loss of your uncle rudi. I do agree with you that these medications are over-prescribed because many people who are depressed are so because of life circumstances and not a biological depletion of neurotransmitters. I don't agree that natural treatments are a viable option, like SJW. That thing interacts with more drugs than you'd care to remember. It's a thorn in the side of medical practitioners.

Also, therapy is actually a first line treatment route for many conditions, such as anxiety. At least in the UK. Even with depression, antidepressants tend to be prescribed only if a person displays more than 5 of the 9 major symptoms, which include suicide idealising. So, it makes sense to give those people antidepressants and ensuring their safety.

Hey BlackSheep, thanks for your kind words.

I do have to say that the culture of prescriptions is very different here in the USofA. The NHS is publicly funded unlike here, where everything is for profit.

Big pharma actively pushes their drugs, even on TV Ads. "Feeling down? Got the winter blues? We can help.". - And doctors are actively encouraged to prescribe drugs by pharmaceutical representatives. That is the problem with the US healthcare system. Everything is for profit. More drugs = more money to make more drugs and make more money.

It also does not help that mental health is not covered under individual insurance policies, only work and family (correct me if I am wrong, at least this is true in Florida). Most people resort to drugs because it is cheaper than 20 sessions of therapy.

 

[BlackSheep]

Quantum, if you are adamant about stopping the antidepressants, please make sure you do so slowly, otherwise you run the risk of developing serotonin syndrome. SSRI's can be tapered off over around a month.

Hey BlackSheep, thanks for your kind words.

I do have to say that the culture of prescriptions is very different here in the USofA. The NHS is publicly funded unlike here, where everything is for profit.

Big pharma actively pushes their drugs, even on TV Ads. "Feeling down? Got the winter blues? We can help.". - And doctors are actively encouraged to prescribe drugs by pharmaceutical representatives. That is the problem with the US healthcare system. Everything is for profit. More drugs = more money to make more drugs and make more money.

It also does not help that mental health is not covered under individual insurance policies, only work and family (correct me if I am wrong, at least this is true in Florida). Most people resort to drugs because it is cheaper than 20 sessions of therapy.

My bad, I retract my previous statement as being a generalised one, I forgot about the situation in America.

Yes, I completely agree that in the US health is seen as a commodity rather than a neutral aspect of "being".

 

[rudimentary]

My bad, I retract my previous statement as being a generalised one, I forgot about the situation in America.

Yes, I completely agree that in the US health is seen as a commodity rather than a neutral aspect of "being".

No problem buddy.

I'd like to add something to your statement. In the USA the pharmaceutical companies don't want people to be healthy. There's no money in that.

They want people to be sick, but under control. Neither dead, nor healthy. The sweet spot so that they keep consuming the drugs they manufacture.

That's why they lobby against nutrition mandates, better school lunch initiatives, out-bid health public service announcements on TV, etc.

If they were rooting for people to be cured of diseases, they would be in the business of putting themselves out of business.

No more 12-week chemotherapy treatments worth $40,000 per person. No more 20 pills-a-day cocktails for HIV patients, etc.

Sad, but true.

 

[J.Harrison]

That's why they lobby against nutrition mandates, better school lunch initiatives, out-bid health public service announcements on TV, etc.

The proof of this is in our government-recommended "food pyramid", where the lowest tier is composed of *8* servings of refined and processed carbohydrate products *PER DAY*.

Yes, the USDA says you should eat more refined/processed flour, etc. than fruits and/or vegetables.

And ppl. wonder why most Americans are obese and diabetic.


Hmmm.....

 

[Quantum Cat]

Wow. In the UK the Powers that be recommend 5 portions of fruit and veg and 1-3 portions of carbs and protein a day. Of course nobody sticks to that (except for total health freaks)

 

[BlackSheep]

Wow. In the UK the Powers that be recommend 5 portions of fruit and veg and 1-3 portions of carbs and protein a day. Of course nobody sticks to that (except for total health freaks)

Interesting anecdote here; the study that is the source of that recommendation actually found 8 fruit+veg a day was the ideal, not 5. The government downplayed that because it knew the British public would have great difficulty hitting that.

Well, we're having problems with 5, let alone 8, so...

 

[Admin]

Juicing.

 

[WhereDaHair]

Quantum Cat - I made a mistake. I posted a message to you, but somehow I put it in the wrong thread. I accidentally posted it in the Finasteride and Neurosteroid thread. My bad. Anyway, following is what I wanted to ask you.....

I'm quitting the SSRI soon - if it's a choice between antidepressants and Propecia, I'd go with finasteride any day. No amount of Prozac would be able to counter the depression caused by balding

Hey man, about quitting the SSRI... have you? What about this I came across in another thread:

SSRIs (antidepressants like Zoloft) have been shown to upregulate levels of progesterone and allopregnanolone (THP) [PMID 12957330] as well as neurogenesis [PMID 14872203, 15001810, 14512209]. In animal models it¹s the hippocampal neurogenesis that accounts for the behavioral effects of SSRIs [PMID 12907793]. Conversely, inescapable stress which reduces hippocampal neurogenesis also causes depression [PMID 12838272].

I mean correct me if i'm wrong. But both this thread (and the other finasteride and neurological problems thread on HLH) focus on the the lower synthesis of allopregnanalone because this action is inhibited by finasteride just the same as T -> DHT because it's also 5AR.

So having lower levels of allopregnanalone is bad, and SSRI's upregulate levels of allopregnanalone, then wouldn't it be advantageous to take an SSRI (never though I would say that) if you are also taking finasteride?

Also says this here:

People have commented on supplementing with the following;
SSRI's
5-HTP
Glutamine
Theanine
Fish Oil

All of these supplements are agonists for uptake of GABA in some shape or form. It seems too coincidental to me that many people have reported these as being positive for hard flaccid, for it to be unrelated to GABA. People talk about their anti-inflammatory affects, but it's specifically the mode of action through GABA that creates the bigger change.

See, I dropped 1mg Propecia AND 100mg Zoloft same day! Cold Turkey! I'm now realizing that may have been a bad idea... But, at least as far as the neurological problems go, actually taking Zoloft may help... right?