Oral Steroid Made My Hair Grow Back Thicker!

[Davy Weir]

Hey everybody, first time poster here.

Felt the need to share this in the hope that somebody will give me an explanation.
There's a lot more to this story but I'll make it brief and straight to the point.

For the past 7 weeks I've been taking an oral steroid called Anavar (Oxandrolone)
Over this time I have noticed my hair has got much thicker all over, which is bizarre to me because I'm prone to male pattern baldness and was fully expecting this cycle to make me lose the last of my hair. What's going on?? I could genuinely feel my hair growing and it was never itchy like before.

My cycle finished yesterday and already my hairs texture is starting to change back. It feels like it was before, much thinner and fuzzy. This really pisses me off because I was starting to remember how awesome it was having hair haha.

If anybody has any questions feel free to ask, as I said there is much more to this story but not sure if I'm just talking to myself on here!

Cheers

 

[lamch]

I was going to make a thread once about anavar and the possibility of it re growing hair. Anavar, which is an anabolic steroid, is less potent than dht and maybe eithen test at causing the hair to miniaturise and does not convert into dht. Taking this into consideration, taking this drug will reduce and possibly stop the synthesis of natural testosterone leaving you with the less potent anavar and virtually no dht. Although anavar is less potent androgenicly, it may be more potent anabolicly than test. All very interesting, but im no expert on this subject.

 

[Dontwannabeabetabob]

Did you guys run anavar with or without test? I've heard it's one of the few that can be ran without and see results, but obviously more with test. Did you see mass gains and maintain some after?I've only taken pro hormones but one day would like to run a cycle. Too bad trenbolone is out of the question it'd destroy my hair haha.

 

[Davy Weir]

Did you guys run anavar with or without test? I've heard it's one of the few that can be ran without and see results, but obviously more with test. Did you see mass gains and maintain some after?I've only taken pro hormones but one day would like to run a cycle. Too bad trenbolone is out of the question it'd destroy my hair haha.

I ran Anavar on it's own. Most of the bro scientists out there say its pointless but I definitely seen improvement, shed fat super quick and get hella strong. Best part was that it grew my hair back haha!

 

[ChemHead]

I ran Anavar on it's own. Most of the bro scientists out there say its pointless but I definitely seen improvement, shed fat super quick and get hella strong. Best part was that it grew my hair back haha!

Not sure if you still browse the forums, but I could probably help you figure out why your hair got thicker if you can provide a little more information.

What dosage were you taking and for how how long? How long did it take for you to notice the increase in thickness and, after discontinuation, how long did it take for you to notice diminishing of the thickness (you kind of already answered this one)? Did you notice any other side effects, whether perceived positive or negative - increase in beard or body hair thickness, change in pigment of hair (darkening), increase in skin oiliness or dryness, increase in skin redness or irritation?

There are a number of possibilities I suspect and I'll go over one... Since oxandrolone is not metabolized by 3-beta or 3-alpha HSD, it remains an active androgen until it's probably glucuronidated for elimination from the body. Despite what you hear from mainstream science about androgens and hairloss, testosterone does not cause hair loss. Every steroid has the ability to invoke a unique genetic expression when bound to its respective receptor and their physiological effects should never be classified by their affinities for those receptors (i.e. DHT causes more hair loss than testosterone because it's bound with higher affinity than testosterone). Testosterone and DHT invoke their own unique gene expressions when bound by the androgen receptor.

It could be that the relative binding affinity for oxandrolone (anavar) may be similar or even higher than DHT, which means that it's possible that it binds the androgen receptor with high affinity and can continue binding without metabolism by 3-b,a HSD. This keeps DHT from binding and expressing the genes that cause hair loss without disrupting a whole lot with respect to hypothalamic regulation of steroid production and metabolism. Since oxandrolone is not DHT, binding the androgen receptor doesn't cause expression of the genes that cause hairloss... because again, each steroid invokes a unique genetic expression when bound by a receptor or response element.

In a sense, oxandrolone could be acting as an androgen receptor antagonist, but only as an antagonist with respect to gene expression which negatively affects hair. In every other sense, it invokes genetic expression that promotes the positive effects we need from androgens... it's not impotent like an androgen receptor antagonist would normally be. Since it's non-aromatizable, you don't end up with excessive estrogenism and ultimately negative HTPA feedback. This is also important because negative HTPA feedback will ultimately cause you to produce less steroids and, depending on the type of feedback, alter steroid metabolizing enzyme expression. If you have higher steroid production, you'll have higher levels of whatever steroid is responsible for thickening of the hair and when you throw oxandrolone into the mix, you're reducing the binding of steroids that negatively impact hair growth (DHT) by giving the androgen receptors something else to bind.

 

[ChemHead]

I'll also add that if you look at the conformations of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, and oxandrolone, side by side, you can see that oxandrolone is structurally similar in conformation to testosterone. In fact, due to the resonance structure of the lactone in the A ring of oxandrolone, it's even flatter in conformation than testosterone when comparing both to DHT, which makes me suspect that may be the reason for oxandrolone's similarity to testosterone with respect to gene expression, while simultaneously being already 5-alpha reduced and non-aromatizable.

 

[reyl]

I'll also add that if you look at the conformations of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, and oxandrolone, side by side, you can see that oxandrolone is structurally similar in conformation to testosterone. In fact, due to the resonance structure of the lactone in the A ring of oxandrolone, it's even flatter in conformation than testosterone when comparing both to DHT, which makes me suspect that may be the reason for oxandrolone's similarity to testosterone with respect to gene expression, while simultaneously being already 5-alpha reduced and non-aromatizable.

So what would happen if someone ran finasteride or dutasteride while also taking Anavar?

 

[ChemHead]

So what would happen if someone ran finasteride or dutasteride while also taking Anavar?

Finasteride and Dutasteride are a slippery slope. They can work well for some people and not so much for others and a lot of it is dependent on the extent to which 5-alpha reductase is expressed in different tissues. The most ideal case for use of finasteride/dutasteride would be someone whose expression of 5AR is already low or unaffected by 5AR inhibitors in tissues that we don't want affected. The reason is that 5AR inhibitors cause hypothalamic suppression of steroid synthesis and alter steroid metabolizing enzyme expression (not the obvious change in 5AR, but also aromatase and possibly the different types of hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes). Most people that take 5AR inhibitors are very likely androgen deficient, but fooled by testosterone levels from blood work. If you take finasteride and your testosterone levels are higher than before, that only says something about the concentration of testosterone in serum. It does NOT reveal anything about total androgen synthesis or even total steroid throughput in the body, because steroids are metabolized once they reach different tissues. By taking finasteride, you're actually decreasing total steroid throughput... the natural process would be for testosterone to reach target tissue and be metabolized. Some is 5 alpha reduced, some is aromatized, and some is bound by receptors as-is. Cutting off that metabolic pathway (5AR) increases testosterone concentration and, subsequently, concentration of estrogens, but only for a short time due to negative hypothalamic feedback. You actually want DHT, especially in the brain, because it allows your body to produce higher levels of steroids, including estrogens. Cutting off 5AR results in higher serum levels of testosterone and estrogens, but LOWER levels of estrogens in the tissues where they belong. Estrogens don't belong in serum. They should be created in the tissue where they're needed and then rendered inactive before they end up back in serum for elimination. This way, you end up with higher steroid production and throughput and, thus, higher levels of the steroids which are good for hair. In an ideal world, we would probably want high expression of 5AR in sexual tissues and the brain and lower expression in the skin and hair. This would ensure high steroid production and throughput, but low metabolism of testosterone to DHT in hair follicles. This localizes the effects of estrogens to the hair follicles without raising the serum concentration of estrogens.

So, to answer your question, for people taking finasteride, adding anavar will likely do nothing to help and may possibly hurt due to hypothalamic suppression. If anavar is taken on its own, though, it's possible you may be able to eliminate most of the negative physiological effects of DHT binding the androgen receptor without also causing a rise in serum estrogens (thus keeping autocrine production of estrogens in the hair follicle higher). That's ultimately what we want. We want to eliminate the negative effects of DHT in a way that doesn't lead to negative hypothalamic regulation so we can keep all our other steroid activity as it normally is.

I will tell you this... the only way that finasteride works for me is if I take a high dose (5-10mg) daily, causing a sharp, quick decrease DHT and increase in estrogens. The increase in estrogens lasts for a very short period of time and I have incredibly thick, dark hair for maybe 3-5 days.. thicker than when I was a pre-pubescent kid. After that, my hair becomes thin, dry, and sheds like it would if I hadn't taken finasteride (possibly even worse). Keep in mind, this is with extremely low levels of DHT, so the lack of presence of DHT isn't the whole picture like many might think. male pattern baldness is not entirely linked to androgens.. it's also very closely interwoven with the lack of presence of other steroids. This also links female and male pattern baldness... two different sides of the same coin in a way, I guess.

 

[Matt Rogers]

Finasteride and Dutasteride are a slippery slope. They can work well for some people and not so much for others and a lot of it is dependent on the extent to which 5-alpha reductase is expressed in different tissues. The most ideal case for use of finasteride/dutasteride would be someone whose expression of 5AR is already low or unaffected by 5AR inhibitors in tissues that we don't want affected. The reason is that 5AR inhibitors cause hypothalamic suppression of steroid synthesis and alter steroid metabolizing enzyme expression (not the obvious change in 5AR, but also aromatase and possibly the different types of hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes). Most people that take 5AR inhibitors are very likely androgen deficient, but fooled by testosterone levels from blood work. If you take finasteride and your testosterone levels are higher than before, that only says something about the concentration of testosterone in serum. It does NOT reveal anything about total androgen synthesis or even total steroid throughput in the body, because steroids are metabolized once they reach different tissues. By taking finasteride, you're actually decreasing total steroid throughput... the natural process would be for testosterone to reach target tissue and be metabolized. Some is 5 alpha reduced, some is aromatized, and some is bound by receptors as-is. Cutting off that metabolic pathway (5AR) increases testosterone concentration and, subsequently, concentration of estrogens, but only for a short time due to negative hypothalamic feedback. You actually want DHT, especially in the brain, because it allows your body to produce higher levels of steroids, including estrogens. Cutting off 5AR results in higher serum levels of testosterone and estrogens, but LOWER levels of estrogens in the tissues where they belong. Estrogens don't belong in serum. They should be created in the tissue where they're needed and then rendered inactive before they end up back in serum for elimination. This way, you end up with higher steroid production and throughput and, thus, higher levels of the steroids which are good for hair. In an ideal world, we would probably want high expression of 5AR in sexual tissues and the brain and lower expression in the skin and hair. This would ensure high steroid production and throughput, but low metabolism of testosterone to DHT in hair follicles. This localizes the effects of estrogens to the hair follicles without raising the serum concentration of estrogens.

So, to answer your question, for people taking finasteride, adding anavar will likely do nothing to help and may possibly hurt due to hypothalamic suppression. If anavar is taken on its own, though, it's possible you may be able to eliminate most of the negative physiological effects of DHT binding the androgen receptor without also causing a rise in serum estrogens (thus keeping autocrine production of estrogens in the hair follicle higher). That's ultimately what we want. We want to eliminate the negative effects of DHT in a way that doesn't lead to negative hypothalamic regulation so we can keep all our other steroid activity as it normally is.

I will tell you this... the only way that finasteride works for me is if I take a high dose (5-10mg) daily, causing a sharp, quick decrease DHT and increase in estrogens. The increase in estrogens lasts for a very short period of time and I have incredibly thick, dark hair for maybe 3-5 days.. thicker than when I was a pre-pubescent kid. After that, my hair becomes thin, dry, and sheds like it would if I hadn't taken finasteride (possibly even worse). Keep in mind, this is with extremely low levels of DHT, so the lack of presence of DHT isn't the whole picture like many might think. male pattern baldness is not entirely linked to androgens.. it's also very closely interwoven with the lack of presence of other steroids. This also links female and male pattern baldness... two different sides of the same coin in a way, I guess.

10 mg of finasteride? That's insanity lol

 

[ChemHead]

10 mg of finasteride? That's insanity lol

It is insanity. And because of my experiences with finasteride, I don't believe DHT really has a very strong role in hair loss. The scalp doesn't have the right environment to grow hair properly because there is a deficiency in "something" that is temporarily increased due to the inhibition of 5 alpha reductase. That could be an estrogen, a mineralocorticoid, a glucocorticoid... These are all options. I know for certain that if DHT were the problem, then my hair would be amazingly thick and stay that way with finasteride. It doesn't, though. It reaches a peak after about 3 weeks and then becomes thin and sheds again after whatever increased is downregulated. Many hair loss sufferers could possibly be suffering from a low grade, undiagnosed form of adrenal hyperplasia due to an enzyme malfunction or deficiency.

 

[Matt Rogers]

It is insanity. And because of my experiences with finasteride, I don't believe DHT really has a very strong role in hair loss. The scalp doesn't have the right environment to grow hair properly because there is a deficiency in "something" that is temporarily increased due to the inhibition of 5 alpha reductase. That could be an estrogen, a mineralocorticoid, a glucocorticoid... These are all options. I know for certain that if DHT were the problem, then my hair would be amazingly thick and stay that way with finasteride. It doesn't, though. It reaches a peak after about 3 weeks and then becomes thin and sheds again after whatever increased is downregulated. Many hair loss sufferers could possibly be suffering from a low grade, undiagnosed form of adrenal hyperplasia due to an enzyme malfunction or deficiency.

I'm in the same boat as you. I've been taking 1mg for about 4 months now. I started as a firm norwood 1.5 now im a norwood 2+ It has made my hair loss way worse. I regret taking it and miss my old hair pre finasteride. I'm hoping to quit soon and hopefully quitting will result in some kind of regrowth, but that is a longshot

 

[ChemHead]

I'm in the same boat as you. I've been taking 1mg for about 4 months now. I started as a firm norwood 1.5 now im a norwood 2+ It has made my hair loss way worse. I regret taking it and miss my old hair pre finasteride. I'm hoping to quit soon and hopefully quitting will result in some kind of regrowth, but that is a longshot

The effect that I could get with finasteride was actually really quite amazing, but I had to take high doses for a short period of time. After about 3 weeks, the hypothalamus and pituitary would adjust my steroid production and all the positive effects would disappear. My hair is naturally extremely fine and it always has been since childhood. Finasteride would make my hair extremely thick, dark, and heavy... And by thick, I mean the hairshaft diameter was like double the size at least. It also made the hair on my body thicker and darker, and made my skin look amazing. So, finasteride's mechanism in terms of hair growth has nothing to do with decreasing DHT... It's about what steroids increase as a result of cutting off the 5 alpha reductase pathway. Imagine creating a dam and blocking the flow of a river.. It backs up and increases the flow of that water to other little rivines and areas. I thought at one point that an increase in estrogens might be responsible since cutting off 5 alpha reductase would increase testosterone concentration and, thus, estradiol. To test this, I took finasteride and after it's positive effects went away a few weeks later, I injected testosterone. I got all of the effects of high estradiol, but absolutely no increase in hair thickness or anything positive. It was actually horrible lol.. I felt like death. So, I know that some steroid must increase as a result of taking a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor... And it doesn't seem likely that any estrogen is the one I'm looking for.. And it would also seem that it must be one that's not commonly discussed or studied in scientific publications. It's probably also not one that would be commonly tested for in a lab or used in hormone replacement therapy... Because if it were, I'm sure plenty of people would report positive changes in hair. So, I'm thinking that something like deoxycorticosterone or 11-deoxycortisol may be it. They're 5 alpha reduced steroids... So taking a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor would increase their concentrations.. Temporarily until the hypothalamus and pituitary down regulate total steroid production.

 

[Matt Rogers]

The effect that I could get with finasteride was actually really quite amazing, but I had to take high doses for a short period of time. After about 3 weeks, the hypothalamus and pituitary would adjust my steroid production and all the positive effects would disappear. My hair is naturally extremely fine and it always has been since childhood. Finasteride would make my hair extremely thick, dark, and heavy... And by thick, I mean the hairshaft diameter was like double the size at least. It also made the hair on my body thicker and darker, and made my skin look amazing. So, finasteride's mechanism in terms of hair growth has nothing to do with decreasing DHT... It's about what steroids increase as a result of cutting off the 5 alpha reductase pathway. Imagine creating a dam and blocking the flow of a river.. It backs up and increases the flow of that water to other little rivines and areas. I thought at one point that an increase in estrogens might be responsible since cutting off 5 alpha reductase would increase testosterone concentration and, thus, estradiol. To test this, I took finasteride and after it's positive effects went away a few weeks later, I injected testosterone. I got all of the effects of high estradiol, but absolutely no increase in hair thickness or anything positive. It was actually horrible lol.. I felt like death. So, I know that some steroid must increase as a result of taking a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor... And it doesn't seem likely that any estrogen is the one I'm looking for.. And it would also seem that it must be one that's not commonly discussed or studied in scientific publications. It's probably also not one that would be commonly tested for in a lab or used in hormone replacement therapy... Because if it were, I'm sure plenty of people would report positive changes in hair. So, I'm thinking that something like deoxycorticosterone or 11-deoxycortisol may be it. They're 5 alpha reduced steroids... So taking a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor would increase their concentrations.. Temporarily until the hypothalamus and pituitary down regulate total steroid production.

Wow your knowledge about this stuff is incredible. Do you have any suggestions for me since finasteride isn't working. My hair used to be pubic-like thick and dark. And now it is dry, finer and straighter and falls out like crazy. Also my eyebrows have thinned out especially the outer part of my eyebrow. I read that eyebrow loss is usually caused by thyroid, so I'm thinking maybe finasteride could possibly be interacting with my thyroid somehow.

 

[ChemHead]

Wow your knowledge about this stuff is incredible. Do you have any suggestions for me since finasteride isn't working. My hair used to be pubic-like thick and dark. And now it is dry, finer and straighter and falls out like crazy. Also my eyebrows have thinned out especially the outer part of my eyebrow. I read that eyebrow loss is usually caused by thyroid, so I'm thinking maybe finasteride could possibly be interacting with my thyroid somehow.

So, right now, I've changed my diet and I've been following it pretty religiously for the past year. I've been able to eliminate irritation and inflammation in the scalp and my hair pretty much just doesn't fall out. I'm obviously still missing something genetically that people who don't experience hair loss do have... And whatever that is, I was kind of able to temporarily exploit it with finasteride. I have no scalp problems and any hair I do lose is very little and would be considered relatively normal. With the finasteride, for a short window, not a single hair would come out no matter how hard I tried to make it. Also, I had a ton of vellus hair that sprouted in just days in my hairline. None of that happens with this diet... But, I am slowly regaining density, my hair certainly looks and feels better, and I would expect that in another 6 months or so, no one would probably ever know I've lost hair. It will, however, still be really fine and won't look anywhere near what it did when I cycled on and off finasteride.

Anyway, my diet would be generally disgusting to most people and I'm not really doing it for the hair.. It was just something that I conveniently and happily noticed. I basically eat a totally raw food diet. I eat fruits and vegetables... Like a sickening amount lol. I believe this, in addition to the supplements I take, have helped my adrenal glands, kidneys, and thyroid function more optimally. I think my body is much less forgiving than others who can simply eat what they want and not suffer from hair loss or some other kind of disorder/disease. It's similar to people who may have rheumatoid arthritis.. There's definitely something genetically inferior about those people that makes them more susceptible to arthritic pain than other people, but many of them can get rid of their pain so that it's pretty much unnoticeable if they're saints about what they eat. Their problem is also similar to hair loss sufferers in the sense that it's probably related to some kind of enzyme inefficiency or deficiency. They probably lack enzymes in joint tissues that metabolize certain steroids to anti-inflammatory glucocorticoids.. Just like I believe we lack enzymatic expression in the skin for same kind of thing... Either some kind of glucocorticoid or mineralocorticoid.

So, I believe the diet offsets that genetic shortcoming to a degree and rids me of inflammation. But, if I figure out what steroid was temporarily increased from finasteride use and supplement with it, I will have exactly what I'm after.. And a more complete picture of what causes hairloss. I'm thinking right now that it may be related to some kind of 21-hydroxylase or possibly 11b-hydroxylase enzyme deficiency.. Especially since those things cause excessive androgen production and are also responsible for hirsutism and fine thinning hair/female pattern hair loss in women. They cause excessive androgen production obviously because if you're not making enough of a particular glucocorticoid or mineralocorticoid due to poor enzymatic metabolism, the adrenal glands must release more steroids to make up for that.. If the quality of the machinery is poor, you have to throw more material at it to have enough product. And mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids control salt/blood pressure regulation and blood sugar regulation, respectively. Those are two incredibly important things.

 

[ChemHead]

One of the reasons why I strongly believe the steroid increased by finasteride may be a mineralocorticoid over a glucocorticoid is because mineralocorticoids regulate salt and fluid retention. When my hair gets thicker from finasteride, most of the thickening occurs in a pretty short time frame... I'm talking like inside of a week. It also transitions from thick to thin, dry, and falling out very rapidly... Like days. What could cause hair to increase and decrease in thickness that quickly? Surely, it can't be that the hair has created new proteins and then lost those proteins only days later. That wouldn't make sense. But what would make sense is that they swelled up due to fluid retention, from possibly a mineralocorticoid, and then rapidly deflated after that mineralocorticoid decreased back to it's normal deficient concentration. There's a lot of speculation on my part here, but everything I've discovered through experimentation currently leads me in this direction.

 

[Matt Rogers]

One of the reasons why I strongly believe the steroid increased by finasteride may be a mineralocorticoid over a glucocorticoid is because mineralocorticoids regulate salt and fluid retention. When my hair gets thicker from finasteride, most of the thickening occurs in a pretty short time frame... I'm talking like inside of a week. It also transitions from thick to thin, dry, and falling out very rapidly... Like days. What could cause hair to increase and decrease in thickness that quickly? Surely, it can't be that the hair has created new proteins and then lost those proteins only days later. That wouldn't make sense. But what would make sense is that they swelled up due to fluid retention, from possibly a mineralocorticoid, and then rapidly deflated after that mineralocorticoid decreased back to it's normal deficient concentration. There's a lot of speculation on my part here, but everything I've discovered through experimentation currently leads me in this direction.

How do you feel about microneedling, I just started a regimen last week. I eat a ton of fruits and generally healthy diet. And I drink kefir probiotics smoothies every day. I've also noticed taking fiber supplements really help.

I think eating extra actually helps I've noticed when I get really hungry and don't eat a lot that day that I seem to shed more hair maybe from an insulin response.

I think finasteride only helps people that have clear cut dht male pattern baldness. and for others with hairloss it is a trial and error game

 

[ChemHead]

How do you feel about microneedling, I just started a regimen last week.

I started microneedling mid December when I saw the results a guy on reddit got. I'm getting close to the third month and my hair certainly feels and looks denser, so I definitely think something is happening. I think it's too early to tell how effective it will be, though. The guy on reddit didn't start really seeing anything happen until after the third month. But after about 6 months, he pretty much regrew an entire head of hair. I'm not great with classifying it on a Norwood scale, but his loss was pretty extensive...like a 5 or a 6. After about 9 months that full coverage he attained became even denser and it truly looked spectacular. You would never know the guy had ever been bald in any way.

As far as finasteride and DHT, I would consider myself someone who most would say are extremely sensitive to DHT. I started losing at an early age (17) profusely. Without my change in diet, I can tell you with certainty that I would resume that nasty process and my scalp would burn, itch, and be inflamed.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

It is insanity. And because of my experiences with finasteride, I don't believe DHT really has a very strong role in hair loss. The scalp doesn't have the right environment to grow hair properly because there is a deficiency in "something" that is temporarily increased due to the inhibition of 5 alpha reductase. That could be an estrogen, a mineralocorticoid, a glucocorticoid... These are all options. I know for certain that if DHT were the problem, then my hair would be amazingly thick and stay that way with finasteride. It doesn't, though. It reaches a peak after about 3 weeks and then becomes thin and sheds again after whatever increased is downregulated. Many hair loss sufferers could possibly be suffering from a low grade, undiagnosed form of adrenal hyperplasia due to an enzyme malfunction or deficiency.

I highly agree that glucortiocids minercorticoids are involved in hairloss


I am taking 1mg of finasteride right now. I am kind a hairy guy and it’s been awesome at slowing body hair and less acne and my hair loss stopped completely. So I am not just sensitive to dht since I have male pattern baldness. I probably have higher levels due to my hairyness.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

One of the reasons why I strongly believe the steroid increased by finasteride may be a mineralocorticoid over a glucocorticoid is because mineralocorticoids regulate salt and fluid retention. When my hair gets thicker from finasteride, most of the thickening occurs in a pretty short time frame... I'm talking like inside of a week. It also transitions from thick to thin, dry, and falling out very rapidly... Like days. What could cause hair to increase and decrease in thickness that quickly? Surely, it can't be that the hair has created new proteins and then lost those proteins only days later. That wouldn't make sense. But what would make sense is that they swelled up due to fluid retention, from possibly a mineralocorticoid, and then rapidly deflated after that mineralocorticoid decreased back to it's normal deficient concentration. There's a lot of speculation on my part here, but everything I've discovered through experimentation currently leads me in this direction.

While I def agree that hair can’t chamge it’s follicular diameter within days or a week. mineralcorticoid are spot on the money.

It’s why oral spironolactone works so well for people. Not because it’s an anti androgen. It’s because it has an affect on the mineralcorticoid and cause potassium sparing.



Estradiol isn’t the key. Aromatase in my opinion is.

People tend to use aromatase and estrogen synonymously. This is wrong.

Currently 3 different forms of estrogen are created by aromatase function but I believe there are more metabolites.

Aromatase takes something in and spits something out that we are missing.

I mean when they found that women had higher aromatase levels in frontal hairline that right there tells me we should be exploring aromatase heavily.


There is also aldosterone which is what spironolactone blocks from binding to the mineralcorticoid site. Aldosterone everywhere in the body is great but not in the scalp and studies have show people which androgenic alopecia have high aldosterone

Also chem head I am about to throw some knowledge at you I would love your input

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/stu...els-in-benign-prostatic-hyperplasia-patients/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19428991/

http://www.immortalhair.org/physiology.htm




What are your thoughts ?

 

[ChemHead]

It’s why oral spironolactone works so well for people. Not because it’s an anti androgen. It’s because it has an affect on the mineralcorticoid and cause potassium sparing.

I also agree with this. I have spironolactone, but have not experimented with it yet.

Estradiol isn’t the key. Aromatase in my opinion is.

So, I've done a lot of experimentation with finasteride and I have some very specific observations that have led me to believe that estrogens are possibly not as significant as I thought they were.

What I've discovered is that finasteride causes the HPTA to shut down steroid production, likely due to an increase in estrogens. After this happens, you have to stop finasteride for 2-3 months to let the HPTA recover before finasteride will be effective again.. and for me, finasteride is extraordinarily effective. If taken the way I've specified, my hair gets extremely thick and dark after a few weeks, stays that way for around a week, and then gets thin and begins to fall out again.

So, in an attempt to verify that these effects were due an increase in estrogens, I injected 250mg of testosterone after my hair had gotten thin and fallen out again. This DEFINITELY increased my estradiol, but it had absolutely no positive effect on my hair.. none whatsoever. So, I thought "ok, maybe I'm looking at the wrong estrogen.. maybe it's actually estrone.".. I tried the same thing with androstenedione and still nothing. I've also independently used both estradiol and estrone and get the same side effects as taking testosterone and androstenedione, respectively. For awhile, I thought that the finasteride had caused my body to downregulate aromatase in order to protect itself... which I think is logical, but.. at the same time, injecting testosterone and androstenedione sharply increased my estrogens and nothing positive happened to my hair. So, this ultimately led me to start exploring other steroids.

So, through my experimentation with finasteride, here is what I do know:

1. The positive effects I experienced from finasteride were NOT due to a decrease in DHT. If this were the case, the finasteride would have worked without the effects disappearing after a few weeks.

2. The positive effects are also likely NOT due to an increase in estrogens, though I still leave room for possibility.

3. The positive effects from finasteride ARE due to the increase of a steroid that would normally have been 5-alpha reduced OR another chemical or hormone that was increased due to the increase in that steroid that would normally have been 5-alpha reduced. To me this is what I absolutely DO know.

So I've researched what steroids are generally 5-alpha reduced and tried to determine which of them seems most likely to cause hair thinning and hair loss in BOTH men and women. I truly believe that, ultimately, men and women lose hair for the same reason. Sure, men generally lose hair in a different pattern than women do, but I believe the underlying cause is the same. Anyway.. I've been led to believe that the lack of a gluco- or mineralocorticoid that would normally be heavily 5-alpha reduced is responsible for the lack of volume and darkness of hair (basically thinning). To me, that points to a mineralocorticoid. Another thing that leads me to believe this is that when I take finasteride and experience the positive effects, it also affects my skin. My skin looks god-like for the short time my hair also looks amazing. The reason it looks so good is because it is retaining more water... it's very plump looking and full. Keep in mind, while all this is happening, my testosterone is SKY high (like 1200-1300 ng/dl) and my skin is also very oily... but not so much oily... more waxy. You might think it would be kind of gross, but it was quite the opposite. It had this waxy (not shiny), smooth sheen to it. So, I also know for certain that testosterone doesn't negatively affect hair in any way.

I have a very strong feeling that the mystery steroid I'm looking for may be 11-deoxycorticosterone... or possibly, indirectly corticosterone after 11-deoxycorticosterone has been hydroxylated through the 11b-hydroxylase pathway. I don't believe aldosterone is the culprit, though it is also 5-alpha reduced. If it were aldosterone, I'm sure that plenty of people would experience hair growth simply by taking licorice root extract. One thing that kind of irritates me is that there are so many steroids that no one really knows anything about... and part of this because some jackass concludes that a certain steroid is just some kind of intermediate to another more important steroid and has no physiological significance... kind of how you may hear that estrone is just an inactivated estradiol or less active estrogen. I think that's total garbage... I believe that each individual steroid has it's own physiological significance. Look up 11-deoxycorticosterone and tell me if you can find anything significant related to what it's function is in the body other than just be a "precursor" to another steroid. You might find that it's 5-alpha reduced version, dihydrodeoxycorticosterone, is a neurosteroid as well as the keto form tetrahydrodeoxycorticosterone.

So, what if the issue is that people who generally have fine, thinning hair that is falling out have low levels of a mineralocorticoid like 11-deoxycorticosterone that is made even lower due to 5-alpha reduction? Then finasteride starts to make even more sense... and also why some people experience this "shed". I never experienced a shed on finasteride until it stopped working.. and this happened because my body was simply just making less steroids due to the HPTA crash caused by finasteride. So, finasteride temporarily increases this steroid.. and then your brain's hormone regulatory center kicks in and decreases all steroid output to protect itself.. and then that steroid lowers in concentration again and you're left with thin shedding hair.