Oral spironolactone, Oral Minoxidil and Dutasteride

[audoyle]

Disclaimer: Please do not lecture me on my current regimen. I have done 20+ hours of research of the current drugs and know the possible short-term and long-term side effects. I do not plan to stay on the harsher drugs (e.g oral spironolactone) forever as I do love lifting, and can hopefully maintain some of my gains with consistent dosing of dutasteride and possibly topical RU. I posted this for to educate others and to break the tread of individuals who stop posting updates once they begin to see regrowth (drives me NUTS!!)

So my story. Currently I'm 24 years old and have battling hairless since 21 or so. When I was younger I had the thickest hair. Every barber I went to up until I was 20 said my hair was insanely thick and had trouble cutting it. I attributed to my mother's genes as both her and her mother have extremely thick hair. Unfortunately, right before my 21st birthday I decided to dabble with Prohormones (basically more dangerous, legal at the time, oral steroids). I was on them for approximately three months but the whole time the only thing i was worried about was my hair loss. Starting the prohormones kicked my forever battle of hair loss into high gear and I have never been able to get back to baseline after that. After receding at the temples DRASTICALLY I gave up prohormones forever as they were not worth the risk for me. (Not just in-terms of hair, in many ways) I have tried finasteride along with dutasteride since then with slow but good results. The results were so good that after almost so good two years later I began to slack off on my treatment (finasteride and dutasteride). During the most recent summer, (2015) I went from having the best hair I've had in years, to the worst in my life. Though I was slacking off, looking back I made 60 Dutasteride tabs last about 110 days. At first I couldn't believe that skipped that much, but then it also made realise that my hair was just not weak to high affinity androgens, that my hair is extremely sensitive to DHT as well.

So after losing more hair than I ever did previously from my natural androgen levels, I believe I will never gain hair back from Dutasteride or any less extreme regimen that something that of spironolactone. Initially I completely throughout spironolactone for hair loss as it scared me too much lowering T. Rebounding my test levels from oral prohormones was awful and men are not supposed to have low T and DHT. After doing a ton of research, and reading encouraging success stories such as this one http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...-16-NW3-at-19-Now-22-with-Norwood-0-5-1/page2 knowing Sides such as gyno ED and not easy are not that common to take place in my body. After thinking about it for weeks I took the plunge and told myself it started to affect me to much physically or mentally I would stop

Age 20 No Hair loss
http://imgur.com/8R6ZRSl

To the pictures!! Initially after I started prohormones, slightly maturing already (Age 21, mid 2013)
http://imgur.com/6dB3K5X
http://imgur.com/ZouV2Ow

3 Months after I started prohormones around and when I stop as well. Absolutely Devastated
http://imgur.com/mRu1e2f
http://imgur.com/KMBDMKl

1 Year later (Mid 2014) (1 year of dutasteride/minoxidil/finasteride
http://imgur.com/miStjzu


Alternatively, here is a picture taken 3 days later with a different light angle that looks awful
http://imgur.com/11tuXF5

6 Months later, 1.5 years of dutasteride/finasteride/minoxidil (Winter of 2014/2015) Hair mucher thicker and was able to style it well to hide the little recession I had. Hair was also thick around the temples where there was prior thinning, though still had slight recession)
http://imgur.com/Q8Qw8rP
http://imgur.com/rtpLr0g


Shaved at the beginning of summer (did not take picture for hair purposes lol) Close to two year of dutasteride/finasteride/topical minoxidil. Still
http://imgur.com/Zz5bm8J

Hardly took any pictures this summer as my hair was so good I wasn't worrying about it much. I kept it at a medium length, (guard 5/6) and didn't have to style it at all to hide recession because there was so little.

Fast forward towards the end of summer and I started losing hair rapidly. (Early August 2015)
http://imgur.com/OF0GWAy
http://imgur.com/lymcHr5
http://imgur.com/RlPNJor
http://imgur.com/QhQN7ce

Few Weeks later (Mid August 2015) Hair was worst ever and felt terrible. I couldn't believe what skipping dosages of dutasteride and finasteride had caused so quick
Few Weeks after I started spironolactone 200mg/Oral minoxidil 10mg/ Dutasteride .05 - all daily
http://imgur.com/vunJeko
http://imgur.com/MSRo490

( Early september 2015)
http://imgur.com/u6M88x1

Early Early October 2015 - 1.5 months on spironolactone/oral minoxidil/dutasteride. Long peach fuzz/slightly dark hair is beginning to appear in temples. It looks like they cover my entire area that I have receded even from when I initially started loosing hair in 2013...
http://imgur.com/zTaLwm8 - Entire Head overview
http://imgur.com/Wgu6kCK - Right Temple
http://imgur.com/EMq29JU - Left Temple

November 8th, 2015. 2.5 months of oral of current regimen. I have thick peach fuzz/wispy terminal hairs I have not since since losing my hair originally. Things are extremely promising.
http://imgur.com/AK1xIeO - Entire head
http://imgur.com/I7LUCDc - Right Temple
http://imgur.com/MiHUGY0 - Left Temple

Page 2 update (Dec 4th, 2015, 3 1/4 on regimen) - Note much change from 2.5 months in sadly. Many of the new vellus hairs popped up so quickly I had gotten excited but these areas were bald for multiple years so progress of the miniaturized hairs/long vellus have been SLOWLY improving. Sides so far are still only lowered libido.

Overview of head: http://imgur.com/pCgBOcH
Right temple (side with most vellus/ministrized hairs): http://imgur.com/a/kZAGN
Left Side( very close to full recovery)http://imgur.com/HGbamA0

As of now, this is this is the most and quickest regrowth I have ever seen in bald areas that have been present since 2013. Thickness is getting much better in areas that were thin at the temples but are still not yet as good as dutasteride had helped after two years. I can absolutely say that their are tons of wispy thick peach fuzz hairs that cover my entire temple regions that I have not seen since 2013. I can't believe how good my hairline once was looking at the outline of what looks like terminal hairs eventually.

As for the downfalls/side effects. Lower libio is really about it. I can get it up just as easily and in terms of gyno, I actually had a small pea sized gyno deposit under one of my nipples and has actually disappeared. I am keeping an eye and have timox and an AI on hand but everything is okay as of now. I am also a avid weight lifter and considered decently big for a natural 24 year old so I am keeping an eye on weight/muscle loss along with strength but as of yet I have yet to notice anything. Below is a SHIRTLESS picture of me if you would like to see the baseline of my upper torso. This was from this past summer.

Shirtless Pic from this summer
http://imgur.com/psKWks8


Current Regimen:
200mg Oral spironolactone
10mg Oral minoxidil
Topical minoxidil along with microneedle with A-Ret 0.1% (for hopefully better absorption)

 

[GoldenMane]

Most people looking at you would not say you are balding. You were NW2 to start with and you're still NW2, your hair density has decreased, but not to the point that anyone would look at you and thinking balding. Simply put, you do not need such a strong regimen, just normal finasteride should be fine, maybe try minoxidil for thickening
The hair you gain from oral spironolactone or oral minoxidil will not be maintained with dutasteride and RU, it doesn't work like that. minoxidil hair is minoxidil hair and spironolactone hair is spironolactone hair, you can't swap one for another and expect maintenance.

 

[DontWant2BeBald]

Wow Ive never seen anyone respond so well to treatments numerous times after loosing the hair

Just didn't understand did you start loosing hair while you were off of finasteride/dutasteride, if they helped you regrow so much hair your first time why did you choose spironolactone instead. I would love to take spironolactone orally but just can't handle the side effects

 

[audoyle]

So to the first response. I kindly disagree. I was close to a NW3 and multiple people had unfortunately commented on my hairline this summer after shaving it. I am the worst critic if my hair I and I can honestly say I had amazing hair almost the entire summer and lost a good portion more then I ever have in a few months. Also regarding keeping hair after spironolactone. Their are countless people who say you can keep hair switching from dutasteride to finasteride, or from Ru to minoxidil...the list goes on. Everyone is different. I do agree this is too strong and the chances are slim to keeping the hair i regrow, but I don't want to regret not trying. Also, a better picture to outline my rapid hair loss in the late summer. Sorry it's pixelated! http://imgur.com/lymcHr5

- - - Updated - - -

No actually I took finasteride while I tried Prohormones, but obviously did not work. I continued finasteride for a few months with little success and added Dutasteride. Dutasteride didn't really re-grow much hair. It did make my extremely miniaturized hairs come back which made my hairline look straight and which was very helpful. This was a very slow process and I did not notice any results for at least 6+ months as well.

Also I'd like to add that I attribute my most recent success to starting spironolactone so quickly after the rapid hair loss. Most of what I lost had been there for a year or so and I didn't think it would fallout so quickly or I wouldn't of slacked on my Dutasteride throughout the summer lol.

 

[jlb1177]

Where do u get oral spironolactone. I'm in the same boat as you almost. I took Duta for close to 2 years and saw good results then quit. Lost everything and now and trying to gain it back which is not going well. I've been on Duta for about 8 months with minimal results. Thinking about adding oral spironolactone. Let me know.

 

[FWIW]

Looks good man, the last pictures almost nw1 IMO. On some previous pictures you look Norwood 2 on some little worse. Good think you caught it soon. You could be much worse- the worst picture you posted I was like that at 16.

Wish you best luck with your progrees!

 

[audoyle]

Get all my dutasteride/minoxidil/spironolactone from alldaychemist. Taking spironolactone is a big step. After doing research, it's is the best anti-androgen to take in terms of risk/reward for males imo. But depending on you're situation it may not be a viable option. I do not get gyno easy from estrogen, (some people are very sensitive while other can never get it) You're testosterone will become lower because you are no longer using it and can be bad, especially if you're in your late teens as it would most likely hinder your growth. Benefits are of taking spironolactone are that it both lowers DHT/Testerorne and competes with receptors and a agonist (great attributes for hair growth). let me know if you have anymore questions!

3 Month UPDATE: Hair is getting softer yet more dense. As of now the only side effect is lower libido. Also, surprisingly I have not lost any muscle from my shirtless pic posted above. My diet and training have been very strict the past 3 months and I have maintained a low BF at 185 - 190 lbs. Will update with pics in a few days.

FWIW: Thanks for the support man, I'm hoping for a full recovery by month 6.

 

[yourworld001]

Great thread auddoyle, what dosage did you start off with on Oral spironolactone?

 

[recedingyt]

Get all my dutasteride/minoxidil/spironolactone from alldaychemist. Taking spironolactone is a big step. After doing research, it's is the best anti-androgen to take in terms of risk/reward for males imo. But depending on you're situation it may not be a viable option. I do not get gyno easy from estrogen, (some people are very sensitive while other can never get it) You're testosterone will become lower because you are no longer using it and can be bad, especially if you're in your late teens as it would most likely hinder your growth. Benefits are of taking spironolactone are that it both lowers DHT/Testerorne and competes with receptors and a agonist (great attributes for hair growth). let me know if you have anymore questions!

3 Month UPDATE: Hair is getting softer yet more dense. As of now the only side effect is lower libido. Also, surprisingly I have not lost any muscle from my shirtless pic posted above. My diet and training have been very strict the past 3 months and I have maintained a low BF at 185 - 190 lbs. Will update with pics in a few days.

FWIW: Thanks for the support man, I'm hoping for a full recovery by month 6.

So full disclaimer I'm also on estrogen too (transgender) but I wanted to chime in with my experience with spironolactone and how it effects your T levels. It took me about 4 months to get my testosterone levels into female ranges. Even then I didn't really see much significant muscle mass reduction until about 6 months, at which point it started practically melting off of me (I was also pretty fit like you are before I started transitioning).

I'm just saying that being on oral spironolactone at the dose required to see results as far as hair growth goes will almost certainly cause you to eventually have problems maintaining your current level of fitness. Overall probably not a very good idea in my opinion seeing as I know how much work it takes to look like you do lol

 

[audoyle]

Thank you yourworld001, straight to 200. My thoughts were that tapering does nothing besides delaying the inevitable. If you get gyno at 200 mg by after say 3 months and had not tapered, if you had not tapered it would have only delayed any sides (gyno) by the time it took you to get up to a dosage that will work well on hair growth. (based on my knowledge/reasearch, my opinion)

Thanks for the input receding! I've seen you're thread before and it was very helpful! Question, When you got to female levels, what that attained just with spironolactone and estrogen or just spironolactone? Also what dosage of spironolactone were you taking? Thanks again for the input.

EDIT: I swear you had a thread recendingyt displaying your progress, however I can no longer find it? Am I thinking of someone else or a different forum?

 

[M.G]

Crazy results man. I guess as long as you are carefully watching what you're doing it's alright.

 

[recedingyt]

Thank you yourworld001, straight to 200. My thoughts were that tapering does nothing besides delaying the inevitable. If you get gyno at 200 mg by after say 3 months and had not tapered, if you had not tapered it would have only delayed any sides (gyno) by the time it took you to get up to a dosage that will work well on hair growth. (based on my knowledge/reasearch, my opinion)

Thanks for the input receding! I've seen you're thread before and it was very helpful! Question, When you got to female levels, what that attained just with spironolactone and estrogen or just spironolactone? Also what dosage of spironolactone were you taking? Thanks again for the input.

EDIT: I swear you had a thread recendingyt displaying your progress, however I can no longer find it? Am I thinking of someone else or a different forum?

I did have a thread, but I deleted it a while back because it just attracted a lot of rude comments from people (even if they weren't intended to be rude it gets tiring after a while).

I was taking just spironolactone for 2 months before I got on estrogen. I did the whole slowly increasing dosage thing so I was only on a full dose (200mg) for a month before hopping on estrogen. I did have a blood test right before I got on estrogen, and by that point my T was already pretty low (210ng/dL - the normal range in males is about 270 to 1070 ng/dL). At that time I also wasn't really feeling the effects of having low T. Still had a super high sex drive, no fatigue or anything, normal amount of sperm, no (noticeable) muscle loss, etc.

You may not have as much of an issue with things if your T was high to start with. Unfortunately I don't have a blood test from before starting spironolactone, so I'm not really sure if my T was high at the start. I had super aggressive male pattern baldness and seemed to just pack muscle on with ease so it's possible I did.

I'm really interested to see how you're feeling around the 6 month mark, hopefully you stay side free!

 

[DontWant2BeBald]

I did have a thread, but I deleted it a while back because it just attracted a lot of rude comments from people (even if they weren't intended to be rude it gets tiring after a while).

I was taking just spironolactone for 2 months before I got on estrogen. I did the whole slowly increasing dosage thing so I was only on a full dose (200mg) for a month before hopping on estrogen. I did have a blood test right before I got on estrogen, and by that point my T was already pretty low (210ng/dL - the normal range in males is about 270 to 1070 ng/dL). At that time I also wasn't really feeling the effects of having low T. Still had a super high sex drive, no fatigue or anything, normal amount of sperm, no (noticeable) muscle loss, etc.

You may not have as much of an issue with things if your T was high to start with. Unfortunately I don't have a blood test from before starting spironolactone, so I'm not really sure if my T was high at the start. I had super aggressive male pattern baldness and seemed to just pack muscle on with ease so it's possible I did.

I'm really interested to see how you're feeling around the 6 month mark, hopefully you stay side free!

Wish you would make a thread again, your thread was one of the rarest type of success stories and contained so much helpful information for those of us who unfortunately are not responding to finasteride, best of luck to you

 

[recedingyt]

Wish you would make a thread again, your thread was one of the rarest type of success stories and contained so much helpful information for those of us who unfortunately are not responding to finasteride, best of luck to you

I've considered putting another thread up with just a simple before and after. I'm currently in a minor shed that's been going on for like a month-month and a half or so so I'll probably wait a few months until that situation settles down to make a new thread (hopefully my temples will be coming in strong by then too). Originally I made my thread to show other trans people that it's possible to recover a great amount of hair if you're lucky (this was a major thing preventing me/making me feel like I couldn't transition). You really think it was helpful to the average guy though? I've always strongly cautioned guys away from taking spironolactone, much less estrogen haha!

 

[DontWant2BeBald]

I've considered putting another thread up with just a simple before and after. I'm currently in a minor shed that's been going on for like a month-month and a half or so so I'll probably wait a few months until that situation settles down to make a new thread (hopefully my temples will be coming in strong by then too). Originally I made my thread to show other trans people that it's possible to recover a great amount of hair if you're lucky (this was a major thing preventing me/making me feel like I couldn't transition). You really think it was helpful to the average guy though? I've always strongly cautioned guys away from taking spironolactone, much less estrogen haha!

Idk if u remember me from ur threw but I was starting to arrive at the conclusion the all androgens cause hairloss and not just dht a couple of months before u made your thread which along with a few other solidified my argument

Your thread was further evidence that if we worked to address all androgens topically if possible than much better regrow the could be possible than only finasteride

The thing is there are others like me who are still very young and are unfortunate enough not to respond to finasteride and continue to lose hair. Your thread was just more hope that there are others options and dutasteride or finasteride is not the end all be all

 

[recedingyt]

Idk if u remember me from ur threw but I was starting to arrive at the conclusion the all androgens cause hairloss and not just dht a couple of months before u made your thread which along with a few other solidified my argument

Your thread was further evidence that if we worked to address all androgens topically if possible than much better regrow the could be possible than only finasteride

The thing is there are others like me who are still very young and are unfortunate enough not to respond to finasteride and continue to lose hair. Your thread was just more hope that there are others options and dutasteride or finasteride is not the end all be all

Good points, and yeah I remember talking to you about that now that you mention it. I'll put up another thread in February/March or so since that will be about the 1 year mark for me. Hopefully by then I'll be recovered from this minor shed and I'll be able to show the full extent of what's possible with aggressive regimens. I could see myself being a NW0-0.5 by then if this microneedling thing pans out.

 

[audoyle]

Awesome sounds good recedingyt! Thanks for all the input. I'm hoping I can get the regrwoth I want and maybe scale it back to 100mg spironolactone/.05Dut and see If I can maintain...We'll see!

Also If you're looking for a spironolactone thread with good progress/timeline I encourage you to check out this threaddontwant2bebald

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...ine-at-16-NW3-at-19-Now-22-with-Norwood-0-5-1

 

[DontWant2BeBald]

Awesome sounds good recedingyt! Thanks for all the input. I'm hoping I can get the regrwoth I want and maybe scale it back to 100mg spironolactone/.05Dut and see If I can maintain...We'll see!

Also If you're looking for a spironolactone thread with good progress/timeline I encourage you to check out this threaddontwant2bebald

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...ine-at-16-NW3-at-19-Now-22-with-Norwood-0-5-1

yeah, thx I remember seeing that thread, do bad the OP didn't come back to update it, I'm really curious to know if ru was effective for him

 

[Bagels]

So are you saying your hairloss was due to steroids and probably not male pattern baldness?

 

[audoyle]

Same! He's seen awesome success for losing so much. From what I could figure out he went like 6+months off spironolactone before he had stopped updating and hadn't lost any hair at all. Also a side note, I did try RU before for however long 10 grams lasted (6 months maybe) and didn't see any help...

Bagels: That's what I had originally thought/hoped...But I took prohormones for 3 months and that's when my hairloss started. That was more than 3 years ago...sadly I lost a lot of ground since then since I got lazy taking dutasteride because I had recovered so well over the course of the last few years...Now I know my hair is susceptible to my natural DHT...