On the fence of taking finasteride - faced with a couple of obstacles

[disfiguredyoungman]

Hey guys,

as you can deduct from the title I'm seriously thinking about adding finasteride to my minoxidil regimen. This might be the last window of opportunity to save my hair, since I don't have bald spots yet but am thinning quite noticeable at age 24 all over the crown. A slight, evenly distributed regrowth would make a huge difference visually.

Here's the problem/problems:

I'm kind of scared of the potentially permanent side effects like depression and impotence.

I'm currently in Japan for one year studying abroad which means that I had to rely on a online pharmacy that ships internationally. That also means that I can't really get checked by a Doctor regurlarly and that I better not **** up my health because it might be complicated to get help and explain the issue.

So what do you think, should I just wait one more year for a safer environment and conceal the damage with cabooki or go for it? If the latter which online pharmacy and generica would you recommend?

 

[zzzzz]

from the FDA studies for finasteride:

The five-year study confirmed the excellent safety profile of Propecia. In the initial 12-month clinical studies, the following side effects were the most common and reported by a very small number of men: less desire for sex (1.8 percent vs. 1.3 percent on placebo), difficulty in achieving an erection (1.3 percent vs. 0.7 percent on placebo) and a decrease in the amount of semen (0.8 percent vs. 0.4 percent on placebo). These sexual side effects went away in all men who discontinued therapy because of them and also disappeared in most (56 percent men who chose to continue taking Propecia through the fifth year of the study. By the end of the fifth year, the incidence of those side effects was less than or equal to 0.3 percent in men who continued treatment with Propecia vs. men on placebo.

so you have .5% chance of having lower libido, .6% of having chode, and .4% of having less jizz as being caused by propecia/finasteride and it will always outside of a extremely rare scenario go away after discontinuation of use. The only way propecia can give you permanent ED/sexual sides is if you are already predisposed to get it anyway it will cause you to get that condition earlier but this is extremely rare. This study had over 775 patients receiving both placebo and finasteride which is a large sample and the study lasted 5 whole years. People love to ignore science but I am not sure why. No one listed sides as brain fog, depression, etc. These are probably always placebo effect when people report them. After all the placebo group had 75% as much sides as the finasteride group when it came to low libido and high incidence of sides relative to the finasteride group in the other sides as well. If over 1% can complain of decreased sides when they were actually taking a sugar pill, 1% of people can certainly come on here and complain it gave them depression/brain fog when in reality it is in their heads or not related to finasteride

That guy can post that diagram above me but does it really matter? Does it inhibit enough of the other stuff to have any effect? Can the other stuff not function at the lower levels that finasteride may cause? It is probably so minor or completely negligible since there are so few problems with finasteride in actual studies. Certainly not severe enough to warrant not taking it if you care about your hair.

I lol'd when the guy above me called it poison

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Pheeew, two very different points of view.

@ zzzzz
If the side effects disappeared in all men during the FDA study why did they include the warning of permanent side effects in the description? Those numbers certainly make me more relaxed though.

 

[JZA70]

Place a single round in a revolver, spin the cylinder, place the muzzle against your head, and pull the trigger.

Some win, some lose.

 

[Fermat]

It's exactly people like caramelu that I put off finasteride for so long. Then I finally started after becoming a norwood 3... I have no side effects at all. I wish I started when I was NW2. :/
Yes some people get sides that make them quit the drug... But so what? Just quit taking it. On the other hand, you may get no side effects, or at least, minimal side effects and save your hair. You can't lose.

 

[cthulhu2.0]

100 bucks caramelu is someone who has never tried finasteride or read any of the FDA studies. Finasteride has cleared FDA trials not only for hairloss but for bph and has been around since the early 90's. It has a much better safety profile than dutasteride, because it inhibits close to 70% of circulating dht while compared to 95% with dutasteride. There is only 1 study out there that shows irreversible side effects and this is one of the most poorly designed studies ever conducted. No controls, only 45-50 people in the study, and people entered the study upon their own admission. My advice is to look at the fda trials, which concluded with thousands of participants and show that finasteride has a really good safety record.

 

[Dark Link]

The part about the Irwig study with no controls is very insightful. There is no other proof besides that one study that there are irreversible side effects. That study can't be relied upon. Finasteride is the best we have available and it's FDA approved! I repeat, It's FDA approved. Why not at the very least try it? It's not like it's some black market drug. The government says it is safe to use for hair loss. In fact multiple regulatory governments around the world say it is safe for hair loss. Give it a go.

 

[slowlyreceding]

Try it. If you get sides and don't like it, stop taking. Simple as that. It's not like someone is going to force you to continue taking it if you start to experience sides.

 

[cthulhu2.0]

The part about the Irwig study with no controls is very insightful. There is no other proof besides that one study that there are irreversible side effects. That study can't be relied upon. Finasteride is the best we have available and it's FDA approved! I repeat, It's FDA approved. Why not at the very least try it? It's not like it's some black market drug. The government says it is safe to use for hair loss. In fact multiple regulatory governments around the world say it is safe for hair loss. Give it a go.

I fully agree and I feel like its especially important to consider since there doesn't appear to be anything coming out in the near future, in light of Desmond's trip to the WCHR. I am gonna get a lot of hate for this but I find it bizarre that many are resorting to take RU(typical black market drug) over something like finasteride, which is proven safe and effective. On another note, there have been numerous studies done on finasteride recently in light of people coming forward with sexual sides, and come to the same conclusion as the previous ones. What's really bad is the fact that the Irwig study comes up all over the place when you do a simple google search and is what put me off from the drug for so long. The media will gobble up anything that may stir up some sort of controversy.

 

[zzzzz]

I'm quoting you only, but i could be quoting all of you.

For all the other people who think they know better just because they didnt get any side effects, and think that if you get them you just quit and they disappear... think again.

I got gyno and it never disappeared. And it was because of people like YOU on forums like THIS, putting me off for being scared of side effects, that this happened. Are you going to tell me now that gyno is psychological?

Other got depression, erectyle disfunction, insomnia, anxiety, muscle wastage, double vision..and they didnt go away when they stopped the pill. so you do whatever you want to do with your life but don't tell me that the side effects go away everytime because I've been there done that! 3 weeks was enough to get gyno.

The best summary on taking propecia here was made by JZA70 .

Its pulling the trigger. If you're unlucky there goes your head.

And by the way..studies on irreversible side effects of finasteride are being done and launched as we speak

Elevated estrogen can cause gyno and I do not know if lowering the levels back to normal can fix gyno, however it is a particularly rare side, only .4% get gyno more than the placebo group. So you have a 1 in 250 chance of finasteride induced gyno. Not that bad. What I do know is people get gyno all the time whether they are on finasteride or not, I see people on bodybuilding forums I go to complaining that they are developing gyno even though they never touch finasteride. Gyno could just have easily been caused naturally in your case and you just happened to be on finasteride at the time.

 

[isishearmyplea]

Its your decision at the end of the day man. Lets say for arguments sake that the studies showed that only 10% people dont get sides, you could take the drug and still go scot free and keep your head of hair. what i am trying to say is what really matters is your body chemistry and the drug, you might get it and you might not but the odds are in your favor. And if you decide not to take it, make sure you wont regret this decision if you lose more hair. I dont mean to push you to try taking finasteride with the previous sentence, just trying to make sure you know the consequences of all your possible decisions. Whatever you do best of luck man!!

 

[cthulhu2.0]

What this guy said ^^^^. If there was a casino game out there that gave you a 95% chance of winning, wouldn't you play it?

 

[JZA70]

Unfortunately, I was one if the unlucky ones. There's not a day that goes by that I don't regret taking that poison.

What happened ?

 

[Travalanche]

I've been on 1.3mg/daily (more than the recommended amount) for over 10 months and the only side effect I've had was a mild ball ache for the first 3 days.

After that it's been smooth sailing and my hair loss has slowed dramatically although one of my temples still looks like crap but it did 10 months ago as well. So from that I can conclude that it dramatically slows your hair loss but doesn't regrow any.

 

[zzzzz]

^ your study with a sample size of 1 gives us a strong and very reliable conclusion

 

[YoBroMan]

I can give you my personal experience with Propecia and Rogaine.

I started thinning early, 18-21 range is when I notice my receding hairline. At age 22, I starting using Rogaine 1% in 1988 and stopped in 1992. No noticeable difference either way. I was a decent looking guy, plenty of opportunity and I took advantage of it as much as I could. Today, at 48, I'm still decent looking, not married, different GFs throughout the year, completely enjoying myself as often as I can.

In 1998, I went on Rogaine 5% and in 2000, I started Propecia. I continued using both along with shampooing with Head & Should Clinical Strength (blue bottle) every morning. I took pictures every year until 2010. Results were pretty amazing. Full head of hair, regrew quite bit. Hairline continued to recede but at a much reduced rate. Today, I have a full head of hair, some thinning on the crown, a receding hairline but looks pretty average for a 50 year old.

I continued to use both with no side effects until 2010. In 2010, I noticed a problem with my libido, but being 45 I didn't think much of it because it didn't stop me from having sex. However, I was a little concerned so I monitored it closely.

In 2012, I noticed a terrible change in my libido. Not interested in sex, unable to get hard, no more morning erections, a numbness in my penis, aching in my balls and a little gyno in my chest (I'm a regular at the gym, I'm in great shape, I know what too much estrogen in the body will do...belly fat, chest fat and you can't get rid of it no matter how much you starve yourself and no matter how much cardio you do. I was lean and all of a sudden I started developing fat in these areas)

In the summer of 2012, I decided to stop Propecia but continue Rogaine. After 30 days, morning erections started to return, libido started to return, numbness went away. However, I became constantly tired and unmotivated, I couldn't seem to get enough sleep. I couldn't focus, couldn't get work done, hard a very hard time getting to the gym. After about 3 months I noticed my hair thinning at a much more rapid rate. I decided to go back on Propecia after being off for 3 months. Lost a lot of hair but was hopeful it would grow back.

Fast forward to October 2014. All of the above mentioned side effects are back, but worse. Couldn't get an erection to save my life...no matter how beautiful the woman was and what she was doing.

Made the decision to stop Propecia again in Oct 2014. Will remain off for 90 days to see if the side effects go away. I plan on going back on but only at .5mg everyday. If the side effects come back, then I will do .5mg every other day, possibly every 3rd day. If the side effects remain, I will discontinue Propecia. Now at 50 years old, I'd rather deal with losing my hair but having a healthy sex drive. Also considering testosterone therapy to try and get more test into my system to counteract these side effects. Also possibly considering a reduced daily dosage of v**** or Cialis. It's a slippery slope.

I used Propecia with no problems for 10 years, then all of a sudden it hit me like a ton of bricks. It wasn't the Rogaine because I continued to use it and the side effect subsided.

There are documented cases of some pretty awful side effects. If you choose to use it, be careful, pay attention and understand the risks. Again, I'm fortunate with my situation and the fact that the side effects subsided.

Good luck

Yo!

 

[Wolf Pack]

^ ED occurs in about 40% of over 40's regardless of Finasteride. No causal relationship has been established between finasteride and long term ED.

Fact you were okay for 10 years on finasteride shows it's not the drug but something else. It's not like you have been accumulating finasteride for 10 years in your body - doesn't work like that.