OK ready for some debate on Hairloss here we go.

[dabritz]

OK if you accept the notion that hairloss is caused by our biological disposition of not being resistant to DHT a bi-product of Testosterone, then it would stand to reason that during our sexual peak or prime at ages 18-25 that we would start to develop hair loss then, as this is when we are producing the most amount of testosterone hence our sex drives being through the roof at this time therefore creating high levels of DHT which our poor scalps hate so much.
Why is it then that many men do not develop hair loss untill well into their 30s, 40s, and 50s when testosterone levels surely would lower and diminished as those compared to when they were in their teens and early 20s??

Just some food for thought.

 

[Bryan]

Why is it then that many men do not develop hair loss untill well into their 30s, 40s, and 50s when testosterone levels surely would lower and diminished as those compared to when they were in their teens and early 20s??

You're assuming that men's hair follicles always maintain exactly the same sensitivity to androgens, but that's not the case. Their sensitivity increases with time, which is why (in my opinion) some men don't start balding until considerably later in life.

 

[keepinthehair]

The "maturing" of the follicle/receptor makes good sense. Similar to sebacious and sweat glands in children dot mature until puberty etc. and hair turning gray.

I remember a kid in 8th grade that began to get hair on his chest, he also was the first to start balding around age 18. I had a bald chest until somewhere into my mid 20's the baldness shifte to the top of my head 17 years later. Remeber not all candles burn at the same rate.

 

[Bryan]

cellular time I presume? How is it kept in your opinion? As expression of the balding gene is unique to the individual yet follows a "pattern" (hense MPB) is "timing" of sensitivity inherited as well in your opinion?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. All we know is that scientists found the hair follicles of young macaques to be immune to testosterone, but not the hair follicles of older monkeys. I think the same is almost certainly true of humans, too. Can't go any farther than that.

 

[jasinfla]

No hair on chest or back and my facial hair doesn't grow fast...in my mid 30s so I guess DHT and male pattern baldness is having a field day with the back of my head

 

[BodyDysmorphic]

i truly believe it all has to do with the sensitivity of the hair follicles to the corrosive DHT

hair loss can occur at any age, it just depends on how sensitive the hair follicles are to DHT over time

hair follicle degeneration occurs gradually

it starts by a shorter hair growth cycle with every new hair growth

eventually the hair becomes less pigmented

and all your left with is a short non pigmented hair

hair loss shows maturity
which was necessary with primitive man, who lived considerably less than modern man

maturity in primitive man ment he had the ability to live/survive, perhaps have wealth and assets

obviously hair loss is not necessary in todays standards, but this could explain why some women find bald men attractive

this is an opinion, backed by other readings

 

[jasinfla]

Yeah finasteride, sorry I just had to comment. Not taking over this thread, sorry, but my BDD just took a look at a diff angle tonight, putting my head down forward and it just looked around my whorl and cowlick area, the hair looks a bit less denser there in the top left back but don't know if this because my hair rises up here from the cowlick and makes it look less denser.

But yeah, I think the no body hair is def genetics because my dad is like that and he has a full full head of scalp here at 66 and mine's just messed up and I didn't start shaving until 22....so DHT is definitely a big player with facial & body hair...thanks for that tid bit finasteride...and now I will shut up.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Here is my theory. You have two genes inside you from both mom and dad. If both genes are non balding, you don't bald. If one gene is balding and one gene is non balding, a battle inside your body begins and sometimes the balding gene may win and sometimes the non balding gene will win but the final battle will determine your fate at the end. If you have two balding genes, you are out of luck because you are going to be a high Norwood and probably bald at a very early age. So if you are lucky to have one balding gene and one non balding gene then the big three can help your non balding gene win the battle most of the time so you can slow down balding. I know that is going on in my body because my hair only started to do its most thinning during the past few years because sometimes the balding gene gets in a few jabs once in while even though I am using some heavy arsenal to help my non balding gene. However, overall I would say the non balding gene has won most of my battles. I know I have the balding gene as the HairDX said I did. I am going back on Revivogen so lets hope my balding gene is ready to be pulverized even more now and I can get back some lost density.

 

[freakout]

Why is it then that many men do not develop hair loss untill well into their 30s, 40s, and 50s when testosterone levels surely would lower and diminished as those compared to when they were in their teens and early 20s??

dabritz, this is your best weapon against DHT proponents or the so-called "androgenetic alopecia".

Abstract
Human hair follicles were grafted onto 2 strains of immunodeficient mice to compare the regeneration potential of vellus (miniaturized, balding) and terminal (hairy, nonbalding) follicles from males and a female exhibiting pattern baldness. Each mouse had transplants of both types of follicles from a single donor for direct comparison. Grafted follicles from 2 male donors resulted in nonsignificant differences in mean length (52 mm vs 54 mm) and mean diameter (99 microm vs 93 microm) at 22 weeks for hairs originating from balding and hairy scalp, respectively, corresponding to 400% versus 62% of the mean pretransplantation diameters. Follicles from the female donor transplanted to several mice also resulted in nonsignificant differences in length (43 mm vs 37 mm) for hairs from balding and hairy scalp, respectively, during a period of 22 weeks. The mean diameter of the originally vellus hairs increased 3-fold, whereas the terminal hairs plateaued at approximately 50% of pretransplantation diameter, resulting in a final balding hair volume double that of the nonbalding hairs. This report shows that miniaturized hair follicles of pattern alopecia can quickly regenerate once removed from the human scalp and can grow as well as or better than terminal follicles from the same individual

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12734505
Transplants from balding and hairy androgenetic alopecia scalp regrow hair comparably well on immunodeficient mice.
Rozlyn A. Krajcik, PhD, Joseph H. Vogelman, DEE, Virginia L. Malloy, MS, and Norman Orentreich, MD Cold Spring-on-Hudson, New York

 

[armandein]

Why is it then that many men do not develop hair loss untill well into their 30s, 40s, and 50s when testosterone levels surely would lower and diminished as those compared to when they were in their teens and early 20s??

You're assuming that men's hair follicles always maintain exactly the same sensitivity to androgens, but that's not the case. Their sensitivity increases with time, which is why (in my opinion) some men don't start balding until considerably later in life.

Exactly! :agree:

How do you measure the androgen sensitivity of follicles?

 

[LooseItAll]

Here is my theory. You have two genes inside you from both mom and dad. If both genes are non balding, you don't bald. If one gene is balding and one gene is non balding, a battle inside your body begins and sometimes the balding gene may win and sometimes the non balding gene will win but the final battle will determine your fate at the end. If you have two balding genes, you are out of luck because you are going to be a high Norwood and probably bald at a very early age. So if you are lucky to have one balding gene and one non balding gene then the big three can help your non balding gene win the battle most of the time so you can slow down balding. I know that is going on in my body because my hair only started to do its most thinning during the past few years because sometimes the balding gene gets in a few jabs once in while even though I am using some heavy arsenal to help my non balding gene. However, overall I would say the non balding gene has won most of my battles. I know I have the balding gene as the HairDX said I did. I am going back on Revivogen so lets hope my balding gene is ready to be pulverized even more now and I can get back some lost density.

BS. I got male pattern baldness from one parent and at the exact pace that my grandfather had. male pattern baldness is a dominant gene.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Here is my theory. You have two genes inside you from both mom and dad. If both genes are non balding, you don't bald. If one gene is balding and one gene is non balding, a battle inside your body begins and sometimes the balding gene may win and sometimes the non balding gene will win but the final battle will determine your fate at the end. If you have two balding genes, you are out of luck because you are going to be a high Norwood and probably bald at a very early age. So if you are lucky to have one balding gene and one non balding gene then the big three can help your non balding gene win the battle most of the time so you can slow down balding. I know that is going on in my body because my hair only started to do its most thinning during the past few years because sometimes the balding gene gets in a few jabs once in while even though I am using some heavy arsenal to help my non balding gene. However, overall I would say the non balding gene has won most of my battles. I know I have the balding gene as the HairDX said I did. I am going back on Revivogen so lets hope my balding gene is ready to be pulverized even more now and I can get back some lost density.

BS. I got male pattern baldness from one parent and at the exact pace that my grandfather had. male pattern baldness is a dominant gene.

OK, Genius, explain how my dad can be a NW6/7 and his OLDER brother a NW2 and they came from the same NW7 dad and same Mom?

 

[Bryan]

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. All we know is that scientists found the hair follicles of young macaques to be immune to testosterone, but not the hair follicles of older monkeys. I think the same is almost certainly true of humans, too. Can't go any farther than that.

Not all humans!

What exactly is your point here?

 

[LooseItAll]

Here is my theory. You have two genes inside you from both mom and dad. If both genes are non balding, you don't bald. If one gene is balding and one gene is non balding, a battle inside your body begins and sometimes the balding gene may win and sometimes the non balding gene will win but the final battle will determine your fate at the end. If you have two balding genes, you are out of luck because you are going to be a high Norwood and probably bald at a very early age. So if you are lucky to have one balding gene and one non balding gene then the big three can help your non balding gene win the battle most of the time so you can slow down balding. I know that is going on in my body because my hair only started to do its most thinning during the past few years because sometimes the balding gene gets in a few jabs once in while even though I am using some heavy arsenal to help my non balding gene. However, overall I would say the non balding gene has won most of my battles. I know I have the balding gene as the HairDX said I did. I am going back on Revivogen so lets hope my balding gene is ready to be pulverized even more now and I can get back some lost density.

BS. I got male pattern baldness from one parent and at the exact pace that my grandfather had. male pattern baldness is a dominant gene.

OK, Genius, explain how my dad can be a NW6/7 and his OLDER brother a NW2 and they came from the same NW7 dad and same Mom?

Quite simple.

NW7 dad - NW7 gene + NW2 gene
mom - NW7 gene + NW2 gene(or maybe even non balding) or she could carry only non balding genes. Since MPG is dominant one NW7 gene from dad would give 50% probability of inheriting male pattern baldness.

One son got teh combination of NW7 from one of the parent + any other gene(doesnt matter).

The other son got NW2 gene from dad + nonbalding from mom. Simple

 

[Bryan]

Not all humans!

What exactly is your point here?

Is the "mature hairline" an expression of Androgenetic Alopecia?

I believe it is. If I remember correctly, the pseudohermaphrodites don't even have the relatively minor frontal recession of the "mature hairline". So your point is...?

 

[worldlyman]

My case, I still have all my hair, I'll be 43 later this year. (I thought I was losing a couple years ago...then I alternated shampoos, layered haircuts and it made a difference, among other things).

I cannot grow a full beard. I have no body hair to speak of.

Not a smoker, very slight drinker, exercise regularly, eat lots of fruits (and bad meat).

My mystical maternal grandfather (RIP) started seriously thinning in his early 20s. When I was a kid, he foretold to me that I would not lose my hair..

I pluck out the odd gray hairs, I've had here and there since my 20s...but I notice that there are those where the root end returns to black! Overall, I'm still not a graying guy. (My family normally doesn't gray until 60s.)

Sometimes there is some mysterious Fountain of Youth at work with some individuals until Father Time finally says, "It's time."

 

[DoctorHouse]

Bryan, if a male is XYBb or XYBB , he will go bald according to genetics. B would stand for the balding gene dominant and b would stand for the recessive non balding gene. However, if a male is XYbb he supposedly should not go bald. I am assuming a person with XYBb or XYBB would show a positive balding gene response on the HairDx test. And a male with XYbb would not show a positive gene for balding on the HairDx. How would you explain my situation. I am assuming I can only be a XYBb male since I tested positive for balding on the HairDx test and my hairloss in my 40's is very minor.( I don't think I could be an XYBB because my dad is most likely one and he went bald at 18.) Is the B gene eventually going to take over the b gene eventually for me and I will go bald? I can't possibly be a XYbb because my Hairdx said I have the gene. According to LoosingitAll, the B gene always dominates over the b gene so am I destined for baldness? Or is it possible the HairDX test means nothing and I could be an XYbb. I am assuming a person who is XYbb and still thins out later in life could prove the balding processes and age related thinning are definitely a different process. By the way lets assume everything I mentioned above is without using any treatments for hair loss.

 

[keepinthehair]

Everyone is overcomplicating things, the secret is out in another thread. Basically everyone on HairLossTalk.com is wackin it more than the non-balding men. Put down your pecker and keep your hair. :jackit:

 

[grow8312]

This s all confusing. In my family no one is bald in either mom or dads side. Why it chose me is confusing. I'm not considerably going bald but enough to cause me concern and well now here i am. Im just losing on my hairline at this point so I just started nizoral and rev shampoo.