Newly Discovered Factor in Androgenetic Alopecia. The Cure is Near?

[benjt]

This treatment will certainly not be the cure and can only be efficient temporarily.

PGD-2, as shown by many scientific papers, is upregulated during immune response. If we inhibit COX or PGD-2, we do not deal with the root cause - namely, whatever triggers the autoimmune reaction leading to hair follicle cell aptosis and scarring of our scalp. PGD-2 is not at the root of events here at all, it is only upregulated as a consequence. Still, it might be possible that it might be effective to have a local immune supressant or COX/PGD-2 inhibitor just for these reasons: to stop follicle aptosis and to stop scarring of scalp tissue.

 

[Hoppi]

This treatment will certainly not be the cure and can only be efficient temporarily.

PGD-2, as shown by many scientific papers, is upregulated during immune response. If we inhibit COX or PGD-2, we do not deal with the root cause - namely, whatever triggers the autoimmune reaction leading to hair follicle cell aptosis and scarring of our scalp. PGD-2 is not at the root of events here at all, it is only upregulated as a consequence. Still, it might be possible that it might be effective to have a local immune supressant or COX/PGD-2 inhibitor just for these reasons: to stop follicle aptosis and to stop scarring of scalp tissue.

Agreed. I think the inflammation is due to the infection resultant of a DHT-induced increase in sebum.

Howeeeever... as long as my hair stops falling out I don't really care what link in the chain I achieve this at lol


Oh, I bought loratadine and cetirizine today for £1.50 each (14 tablets in a pack) and the Benadryl was about £3-3.50. I mean... I dunno which to use. They all seem to have 8 hour half lives which is pretty good (I think loratadine is actually more like 28 hours) and they all have side effects. Hm.

I'll think more

 

[benjt]

Any sources for the sebum theory? That might actually be interesting.

In my opinion, you should go for cetirizine. It's the most promising in terms of results.

 

[Hoppi]

Any sources for the sebum theory? That might actually be interesting.

In my opinion, you should go for cetirizine. It's the most promising in terms of results.

hm, glad you said that because I just took one lol

I'll take them daily and see if it helps, as well as my puerarin and hydrogen peroxide.

As far as sebum goes... most of my opinions on hair loss are derived from anecdotes and logical conclusions.. I do read studies, but I can't always cite them because of course I am learning about this quick and fast for my own benefit (but of course if I get success I will help everyone with the information ).

It seemed to me that most people ended up with more sebum during male pattern baldness and also astringents seem to give success, including supplementary retinol apparently and drugs like accutane (which I would never recommend, btw!).

I really think that any way of:

- Lowering scalp DHT

- Lowering scalp sebum levels

- Killing scalp infections

or

- Relaxing the Galea muscles

will help with hair loss greatly. The problem is they're all fairly tricky to do powerfully enough and long-term enough to be effective.

And I do believe that the path to DHT increase in follicles, skin, prostate etc is usually via the HPA axis (stress response), so anything that can calm it powerfully and long-term should work.

I'll keep learning anyway...

 

[Armando Jose]

As far as sebum goes... most of my opinions on hair loss are derived from anecdotes and logical conclusions.. I do read studies, but I can't always cite them because of course I am learning about this quick and fast for my own benefit (but of course if I get success I will help everyone with the information ).

I am very interested in those studies,.....,

 

[persistentone]

Cody333 said:
"Setipiprant by Actelion blocks the right PGD2 receptor implicated in male pattern baldness (PD2). Right now, setipiprant is in phase 2/3 testing."

Does anyone know the name and contact information for the primary researcher for Setpiprant? Where is that trial being conducted? Does the trial have a webpage?

 

[persistentone]

This treatment will certainly not be the cure and can only be efficient temporarily.

PGD-2, as shown by many scientific papers, is upregulated during immune response. If we inhibit COX or PGD-2, we do not deal with the root cause - namely, whatever triggers the autoimmune reaction leading to hair follicle cell aptosis and scarring of our scalp. PGD-2 is not at the root of events here at all, it is only upregulated as a consequence. Still, it might be possible that it might be effective to have a local immune supressant or COX/PGD-2 inhibitor just for these reasons: to stop follicle aptosis and to stop scarring of scalp tissue.

Benjt, how does this make topical use of PGD2 inhibitors any less interesting for treatment of male pattern baldness? I mean if I have sinus allergies or congestion, I take decongestants or antihistamines, or both. Neither of those treat underlying source of allergic response, or the sinus structures that might cause constriction of mucous. You effectively end up needing to take these drugs repeatedly to just treat the end result symptom. Yet the drugs are extremely useful for some conditions. You take them every day and they do reverse the symptom.

I think PGD2 inhibitors might be the same. You would be required to take them every day (or on some cycle TBD) for the rest of your life, simply to treat the symptoms of whatever unknown thing is causing PGD2 to upregulate in scalp tissues.

To my thinking, this PGD2 inhibitor idea is the most promising treatment for male pattern baldness of the last 20 years. There is something really powerful here, and it may result in a better therapy than anything we have had to date. It's really disappointing it is not being studied actively for male pattern baldness.

 

[benjt]

I'm not saying it makes it less interesting or potent. The point was that many news sites claimed that it was the cure (dunno if the primary sources, i.e., the scientists authoring the paper actually said that too), which it definitely is not. I'd totally take LOCAL PGD-2 inhibitors. Orally, though, I'd really stay away from them. Would decrease cell turnover & immune reaction intensity, and maybe also increase the risk of cancer.

 

[persistentone]

I'm not saying it makes it less interesting or potent. The point was that many news sites claimed that it was the cure (dunno if the primary sources, i.e., the scientists authoring the paper actually said that too), which it definitely is not. I'd totally take LOCAL PGD-2 inhibitors. Orally, though, I'd really stay away from them. Would decrease cell turnover & immune reaction intensity, and maybe also increase the risk of cancer.

Well if we treat the symptom and give a balding guy a full head of hair like an 18 year old, I think most people would consider that a cure. I appreciate the finesse of your statement, but consider that likely no drug could ever be a "cure" because once you stop taking that drug the body would likely return to some steady-state which represents hair loss again. It's not like a bacterial infection where we kill the disease and it (ideally) does not come back again.

 

[benjt]

I am a researcher by profession (though unfortunately not in anything biology, medicine or chemistry related), so I take statements like "cure" very literal
PGD-2 and COX inhibitors will also not be able to regrow anything, as these inhibitors will only suppress inflammation and thus the formation of new fibrotic collagen tissue. They will not be able to reover anything in already bald areas. But yes: a reliable, local PGD-2 inhibitor will be able to halt the balding process.

Furthermore, for me a "cure" would be any kind of drug that hits the "root of all evil", i.e., acts on the initial cuplrit (that is, whatever causes the immune reaction and subsequent inflammation of our scalps in the first place), even when you'd have to take it on a regular basis. A PGD-2 inhibitor only addresses the symptom, i.e., the PGD-2 increase as a consequence of the body's aggressive immune reaction, subsequent inflammation, and subsequent fibrosis.

Actually, apart from messing with our genes, I see two possible approaches for a cure:
- through the approaches of RepliCel and similar companies, grow new follicles with the same properties as the ones on the sides of our heads, and implant them on the top
- find a drug that does not deactivate the gene (DKK-1 being one candidate), but suppress its expression (it is not unlikely that this gene exists in everybody, and in Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers there is a mechanism triggering its expression in the first place, as shown by the various studies showing that DHT by itself is not harmful to follicles at all, but only due to processes in Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers)

 

[persistentone]

I am a researcher by profession (though unfortunately not in anything biology, medicine or chemistry related), so I take statements like "cure" very literal
PGD-2 and COX inhibitors will also not be able to regrow anything, as these inhibitors will only suppress inflammation and thus the formation of new fibrotic collagen tissue. They will not be able to reover anything in already bald areas. But yes: a reliable, local PGD-2 inhibitor will be able to halt the balding process.

Furthermore, for me a "cure" would be any kind of drug that hits the "root of all evil", i.e., acts on the initial cuplrit (that is, whatever causes the immune reaction and subsequent inflammation of our scalps in the first place), even when you'd have to take it on a regular basis. A PGD-2 inhibitor only addresses the symptom, i.e., the PGD-2 increase as a consequence of the body's aggressive immune reaction, subsequent inflammation, and subsequent fibrosis.

Actually, apart from messing with our genes, I see two possible approaches for a cure:
- through the approaches of RepliCel and similar companies, grow new follicles with the same properties as the ones on the sides of our heads, and implant them on the top
- find a drug that does not deactivate the gene (DKK-1 being one candidate), but suppress its expression (it is not unlikely that this gene exists in everybody, and in Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers there is a mechanism triggering its expression in the first place, as shown by the various studies showing that DHT by itself is not harmful to follicles at all, but only due to processes in Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers)

The quotes from the primary researcher of the Univ. of Pennsylvania study on PGD2 inhibitors suggested that PGD2 was causing existing hairs to stop growing. I thought the idea was that a PGD2 inhibitor might allow all of those micro-fine hairs on a balding scalp to actually reach maturity and grow.

To actually grow new hairs, I guess you need something like the micro-wounding device that the same researchers have studied, or the Replicel approach.

- - - Updated - - -

I am a researcher by profession (though unfortunately not in anything biology, medicine or chemistry related), so I take statements like "cure" very literal
PGD-2 and COX inhibitors will also not be able to regrow anything, as these inhibitors will only suppress inflammation and thus the formation of new fibrotic collagen tissue. They will not be able to reover anything in already bald areas. But yes: a reliable, local PGD-2 inhibitor will be able to halt the balding process.

Furthermore, for me a "cure" would be any kind of drug that hits the "root of all evil", i.e., acts on the initial cuplrit (that is, whatever causes the immune reaction and subsequent inflammation of our scalps in the first place), even when you'd have to take it on a regular basis. A PGD-2 inhibitor only addresses the symptom, i.e., the PGD-2 increase as a consequence of the body's aggressive immune reaction, subsequent inflammation, and subsequent fibrosis.

Actually, apart from messing with our genes, I see two possible approaches for a cure:
- through the approaches of RepliCel and similar companies, grow new follicles with the same properties as the ones on the sides of our heads, and implant them on the top
- find a drug that does not deactivate the gene (DKK-1 being one candidate), but suppress its expression (it is not unlikely that this gene exists in everybody, and in Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers there is a mechanism triggering its expression in the first place, as shown by the various studies showing that DHT by itself is not harmful to follicles at all, but only due to processes in Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers)

By the way, I guess it is not clear that Replicel is growing new hairs. It may simply be enhancing growth of existing ones or stimulating dormant or dying hairs into a new growth phase.

 

[benjt]

The quotes from the primary researcher of the Univ. of Pennsylvania study on PGD2 inhibitors suggested that PGD2 was causing existing hairs to stop growing. I thought the idea was that a PGD2 inhibitor might allow all of those micro-fine hairs on a balding scalp to actually reach maturity and grow.

Not really. The ones being about to die right now will recover and produce new hair again. The ones that are already gone for good, i.e., in completely bald areas, will not. The explanation is simple: blocking PGD-2 will halt the process of fibrosis. However, it cannot revert fibrosis. So areas where the tissue has already become completely hardened up will not recover.

By the way, I guess it is not clear that Replicel is growing new hairs. It may simply be enhancing growth of existing ones or stimulating dormant or dying hairs into a new growth phase.

From the little information given on RepliCel's website, I assume they produce DP cells that serve two functions: a) dock at existing, damaged follicles and repair them, and b) trigger the formation of new follicles. This, however, definitely has to be combined with growth factors and/or microwounding, because otherwise you'd just insert new follicles into hard fibrotic tissue, where they will die off pretty soon again.

 

[drgs]

Not really. The ones being about to die right now will recover and produce new hair again. The ones that are already gone for good, i.e., in completely bald areas, will not. The explanation is simple: blocking PGD-2 will halt the process of fibrosis. However, it cannot revert fibrosis. So areas where the tissue has already become completely hardened up will not recover.

You could try a supplement with proteolytic enzymes, serrapeptase etc, Vitalzym, to try to dissolve the fibrins

 

[benjt]

Any hint on available products with these substances?

 

[drgs]

Any hint on available products with these substances?

There is another enzyme called nattokinase which works in synergy with serrapeptase, both are anti-inflammatory, serrapeptase can be blood thinning, you would normally want to take them both
I've had a hard time importing these enzymes to the country I live in, but Doctor's Best, Vitalzym are the best known brands to me.

Google it up, they use it for scars even

 

[Sparky4444]

forget about Replicel...they aren't the ones to make a splash...all fluff...

 

[liquidfirex]

" He exposed human keratinocytes, or skin cells, to 0.005 percent bleach for one hour before treating them with a signaling molecule that normally activates NF-kB function. He found that exposure to the solution blocked the expression of two genes known to be regulated by NF-kB. The effect was reversible, however—waiting 24 hours after the bleach treatment restored NF-kB's ability to activate expression of the target genes."

" They found that the animals bathed in the bleach solution experienced less severe skin damage and better healing and hair regrowth than animals bathed in water."


http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-11-inflammatory-skin-mice-blocked-solution.html

 

[persistentone]

" He exposed human keratinocytes, or skin cells, to 0.005 percent bleach for one hour before treating them with a signaling molecule that normally activates NF-kB function. He found that exposure to the solution blocked the expression of two genes known to be regulated by NF-kB. The effect was reversible, however—waiting 24 hours after the bleach treatment restored NF-kB's ability to activate expression of the target genes."

" They found that the animals bathed in the bleach solution experienced less severe skin damage and better healing and hair regrowth than animals bathed in water."


http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-11-inflammatory-skin-mice-blocked-solution.html

This study concerns treatment of topical dermatitis, not male pattern baldness.

 

[liquidfirex]

This study concerns treatment of topical dermatitis, not male pattern baldness.

Read the rest of the thread to understand the postulated relationship between DHT and NF-kB (ie. DHT->NF-KB over-expression->COX2 over-expression->increased PGD2)

 

[squeegee]

bump.