New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[albert]

do you think sides will go away with time?not that i got permant heart problems after only 2 x minoxidil after rolling ...:O

I don't have the knowledge to answer that question. The only thing I can say is that Minoxidil's safety was tested under some conditions (healthy subjects, normal absorption) and what you're doing is definitely not safe - but if you decide to go ahead and do it, you're free to, but consider a) regular medical checks and b) rethink again if playing with your heart rate worths getting some hair (if such a thing happens).

 

[opti]

no i dont want to do it again,i did it 2 times ,thats enough lol. but minoxidil doesnt stay in the human body for a long time or?

 

[albert]

no i dont want to do it again,i did it 2 times ,thats enough lol. but minoxidil doesnt stay in the human body for a long time or?

The half-life for Minoxidil is around 24h when applied topically (under normal conditions), so you shouldn't worry anymore if you feel ok I guess.

 

[benjt]

I got no experience about the heart-related side effects (except for very minor ones one or two times), but I told you like 100 pages ago!!!1 ( ) that minoxidil can be dangerous. I don't think that a one time systemic overdose can induce long term side effects.

On a related note, as more people are following this thread than my minoxidil thread: 4 months after dropping minoxidil I can see some definite improvements on my facial skin. If I had to give numbers, I'd say I'm about 35 to 40% recovered.
Around each of both eyes, two wrinkles that were "permanent" before (i.e., showing when not smiling, but always there even when face was relaxed) have significantly lost in size and depth (one of them actually being gone completely by now), or in other words, their noticability is greatly reduced. Black eye circles are still there but the color is way better, i.e. not as dark anymore. Forehead wrinkles are almost completely gone. What has not improved in any way though are the enlarged pores. They have unfortunately not subsided in any way. Also, the wrinkles when smiling are still quite deep, though not as long as before: when smiling two months ago, there'd be wrinkles going from the sides of my eyes down to my cheeks at mouth level; this length is now at the level of the middle of my nose.
And yes, I did confirm all of this by comparing photos. Took one today, and compared that to the one I took about 3 and a half months ago.

You can't believe how great I feel. I may be losing hair visibly since dropping minoxidil (lost almost everything I gained), but at least it seems like I'm getting my youthful looks back. Should I recover completely (as I recovered about 35 to 40% by now, I expect it to take another 4 to 6 moths if reovery is linear), which I certainly hope, I might start minoxidil again though at much lower doses. It did have some great effect on my hair, but the side effects were unbearable. I hope there's a dose for me where the positive effects pertain, but I get no negative side effects on my facial skin again.

One theory why I had both great results and those side effects is based on one of the studies posted here recently: minoxidil needs to be converted by an enzyme to bioactive minoxidil sulfate. Some people lack that enzyme and thus don't get any positive (or negative) effects from minoxidil at all. If I just got huge amounts of that enzyme, this would explain the results and side effects. Not only mine, but of all the other people that reported the same side effects as me.

Bottom line for those who are still wondering if they will ever recover from facial skin-related minoxidil side effects: Yes, you will. As of now I can't say if you will recover completely, but there will be at least some recovery.

 

[Bombarie]

Why would he lie about t?

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.

 

[Jacob]

@squeegee: Maybe we can make an accurate list of topicals having enough proof to aid the DR? I don't know: B12, Semen, KGF..?

FWIW... there's this on Dermatopoietin:

Induces secondary messengers:
IL-1 alpha
TGF alpha


Induces secondary messengers:

KGF GM-CSF HGF
PN1
PGE2

http://dermatopoietin.ch/epidermal.html

 

[desmond_hume]

[QUJason5;1141412]Good news guys. I believe this is working better than expected. Check out my 03 October and 18 October changes. I know it's a not huge deal but I feel this is going to interesting places and I'm not using finasteride and I have been balding for 15 years (reached nw5 diffused status). The only new thing I added about 8 days ago was fresh semen (yes, I'm desperate but I don't care about taboo things, I just want real results with no side effects)
but

I take the same shot of my head using the same camera in the same position. Zoom in and let me know if you see a big difference or not. I'm very excited about the next few months.[/QUOTE]

Hi jason

ty for your update. Don't get me wrong. Your hair status seems to have improved but to be able to compare both pics I would like to ask you for pictures with the same hair length. Imo your hairs in the right pic are about 1-2 mm longer than in the left pic

Desmond

 

[darwin101]

What are your guys thoughts about exercising after rolling? How much risk is there of causing an infection? My scalp has little blood marks all over it, but I don't feel like the punctures on my scalp are worth worrying about... but I'm not sure.

Please weigh in with some insight far greater than mine :salut:

 

[closetmetrosexual]

Guys, just slight warning: be careful with putting minoxidil straight after wounding, obviously it depends on person but because of it i failed my medical for racing driving licence, turns out my pulse rate was 110-120 bpm in resting mode, the doctor who checked me almost immediately wanted to admit me to hospital but when i explained what i did in the morning after wounding and checking with him loads of hes books etc. he let me go. The good news is after around 36h it went back to normal to around 60bpm.

Scary! :wow:

Thanks for the warning.

 

[karankaran]

I am seeing that people are following different approached as in not "wounding" with 1.5 mm... and we have a derma rolling thread, TBH , derma rolling has been tried before , this time we are "wounding" with it and applying minoxidil 24 hours after the wounding , 2x daily and wounding is done every week! people deviate from this study , devise own methodology and then we will have complaints about this thing not necessarily working!!!

 

[cthulhu2.0]

I am seeing that people are following different approached as in not "wounding" with 1.5 mm... and we have a derma rolling thread, TBH , derma rolling has been tried before , this time we are "wounding" with it and applying minoxidil 24 hours after the wounding , 2x daily and wounding is done every week! people deviate from this study , devise own methodology and then we will have complaints about this thing not necessarily working!!!

I couldn't agree more! It's funny how people on here feel they know more than the researchers doing the experiments

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oh they got really good results with 1.5mm, that must mean I should try a 0.5mm every day or 3mm every two weeks. It's downright illogical

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unless someone can point me to another study where they used a dermaroller+minoxidil with a different schedule and got better results, I think I'm gonna stick with the study parameters.

 

[DesperateOne]

I couldn't agree more! It's funny how people on here feel they know more than the researchers doing the experiments

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oh they got really good results with 1.5mm, that must mean I should try a 0.5mm every day or 3mm every two weeks. It's downright illogical

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unless someone can point me to another study where they used a dermaroller+minoxidil with a different schedule and got better results, I think I'm gonna stick with the study parameters.

The thing is that the Indian doctors that performed the experiment were extremely unclear on their procedure. Members contacted them and they admitted that blood was observed pretty quick and the use of mild redness was a bad choice of words. Other things didn't add up either. So it you wanted to get the results they claimed, you simply wouldn't get it the way the study is posted.

I also don't see anything wrong with people deviating from the study. First, it's our body and second, we can think for ourselves and conclude what we believe to be best.

 

[karankaran]

ok let me rephrase it - there is nothing wrong with people deviating from study , I do not think I have superpowers to force people yo do things the way i want it lol...infact, it is good to have people try different approaches but if people use 0.5mm and say that they do not get the result, that is something i disagree with it... I wanted to emphasize the rigor of the wounding process...thats it...

 

[squeegee]

See derma roller as flipping a house.. but patience and consistency is needed.

 

[HairShocka]

Wow. This thread is massive, I got to page 50 then decided to skip to the end. Did I miss anything in between? lol
I'm about a month away from the one year mark with Finasteride and Nizoral 2%. I have been shedding in the frontal scalp and losing ground on the hairline since on finasteride. Sides are thinner than baseline too.

I'm very tempted to start Rolling but at the same time I'm also curious to see if finasteride and nizoral alone will give me any results. As most of you know, people say wait at least a year for results ya know... but all that could be bullcrap too.

Any advice on this? Thanks

 

[albert]

Wow. This thread is massive, I got to page 50 then decided to skip to the end. Did I miss anything in between? lol
I'm about a month away from the one year mark with Finasteride and Nizoral 2%. I have been shedding in the frontal scalp and losing ground on the hairline since on finasteride. Sides are thinner than baseline too.

I'm very tempted to start Rolling but at the same time I'm also curious to see if finasteride and nizoral alone will give me any results. As most of you know, people say wait at least a year for results ya know... but all that could be bullcrap too.

Any advice on this? Thanks

I've been on finasteride (and I'm still) for years now and can't say if it really did anything, probably it only slowed down a little bit, but can't say. If you don't experiment sides, well, I'd stick with it.

Inside the pages you skipped we briefly discussed about using Nizoral or similar along with dermarolling. The general agreement was not to use it at all (in fact I stopped) OR use it only after 3-4 days of the dermarolling (I don't support this idea but of course it's just my personal opinion).

Okay, so about starting with the dermarolling... yeah, go ahead, it's not going to harm you, but I hope you're also using Minoxidil or you plan to do it, otherwise you'll be wasting your time.

 

[DesperateOne]

Wow. This thread is massive, I got to page 50 then decided to skip to the end. Did I miss anything in between? lol
I'm about a month away from the one year mark with Finasteride and Nizoral 2%. I have been shedding in the frontal scalp and losing ground on the hairline since on finasteride. Sides are thinner than baseline too.

I'm very tempted to start Rolling but at the same time I'm also curious to see if finasteride and nizoral alone will give me any results. As most of you know, people say wait at least a year for results ya know... but all that could be bullcrap too.

Any advice on this? Thanks

There is a summery thread about this in this same section. Long story short, yes it is worth it but we probably won't achieve WIHN anytime soon.

 

[HairShocka]

I've been on finasteride (and I'm still) for years now and can't say if it really did anything, probably it only slowed down a little bit, but can't say. If you don't experiment sides, well, I'd stick with it.

Inside the pages you skipped we briefly discussed about using Nizoral or similar along with dermarolling. The general agreement was not to use it at all (in fact I stopped) OR use it only after 3-4 days of the dermarolling (I don't support this idea but of course it's just my personal opinion).

Okay, so about starting with the dermarolling... yeah, go ahead, it's not going to harm you, but I hope you're also using Minoxidil or you plan to do it, otherwise you'll be wasting your time.

Thanks for the info man. So no more nizoral if I Roll. I'd hate to use Minoxidil though... I understand it's effects and how it clears away hardened collagen, etc. etc. But I need it on the sides of my head too because it's thinning. I used to use it and it makes my forehead super wrinkly and aged looking too which is kind of freaky but I guess I have to weigh out the benefits and consequences.

On a last note, I thought the whole point of this new protocol was that it isn't just to allow better absorption of topicals like minoxidil. From my understanding, this is how dermarolls were used decades ago.

Are you sure there's no benefit to using a dermaroll at all without minoxidil?

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There is a summery thread about this in this same section. Long story short, yes it is worth it but we probably won't achieve WIHN anytime soon.

What's WIHN?

 

[Manoko]

What's WIHN?

I believe it stands for Wound Induced Hair Neogenesis.
In other words, real creation of new hair follicles with wounding.

 

[cthulhu2.0]

I've been on finasteride (and I'm still) for years now and can't say if it really did anything, probably it only slowed down a little bit, but can't say. If you don't experiment sides, well, I'd stick with it.

Inside the pages you skipped we briefly discussed about using Nizoral or similar along with dermarolling. The general agreement was not to use it at all (in fact I stopped) OR use it only after 3-4 days of the dermarolling (I don't support this idea but of course it's just my personal opinion).

Okay, so about starting with the dermarolling... yeah, go ahead, it's not going to harm you, but I hope you're also using Minoxidil or you plan to do it, otherwise you'll be wasting your time.

I disagree, I just started using Nizoral again in the past two weeks and I have been seeing more regrowth than when I quit it 2 months ago. In fact, the primary reason I got back on Nizoral is because I felt I was losing ground when not using it. Besides nizoral is an antiandrogen(mild one) and we know that dht disrupts the WNT pathway(I could link several studies) which is a bad thing, I can't understand discouraging the use of Nizoral with minoxidil/dermarolling.