New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[SCALPMASTER]

Interesting, I am having a 2 week break from derma rolling to give my scalp a rest, I might get back on it with topical cetirizine and see how that goes.

I am going to try and make my own PGD2 blocker with ginger oil and distilled water and add 5 percent DMSO to the mix to aid absorption. I will use this once a day along with minoxidil.

 

[hairregrowth21]

I have talked about this in this thread and mentioned studies showing that simply brushing vigorously with a rotating bristle brush for 10 seconds was equivalent to 10mn of iontophoresis. You probably started reading this thread after I threw my rage-quit tantrum .


Transdermal Drug Delivery Systems: Skin Perturbation Devices

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0939641107002111


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18369965



It's sad people don't take this kind of stuff seriously though, even though it's backed by carefully, very well design research. I mean it only takes like 10 seconds to go crazy mad brushing your scalp and apply your topical to increase absorption possibly 100 times more. People like the exotic, rare stuff, made from a dark corner of the world in an obscure lab, stuff like cb, oc, ru, scalp med or whatever the hell these things are called, stuff that the shady dark lab selling these products probably have zillions of shills polluting the forums disguised as so called knowledgeable people with 1 trillion post count and what not, when something as simple as vigorously brushing can make your existing cheap topical act like they are on steroids. But it is too easy I guess, we want the complicated stuff. </Rant off>... hi :wave::wave:

"I am not bald okay? I shaved my head. Do you unressstannnn?"

[video=youtube;rIr6rEndy0A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIr6rEndy0A[/video]

Bump...

 

[closetmetrosexual]

I am going to try and make my own PGD2 blocker with ginger oil and distilled water and add 5 percent DMSO to the mix to aid absorption. I will use this once a day along with minoxidil.

Be careful.
The DMSO might end up pulling in the minoxidil all the way into your bloodstream.

 

[I.D WALKER]

I more than less enjoy the exchanges here. I can't say where the DRing thread or trend will end yet but I am confident it is moving forward and it's staying power will outlive it's present novel status. Thanx for sharing.

 

[slam1523]

ID Walker are you rolling just the twelve weeks? What roll are you on?

 

[Kirby]

There have been a number of folks who have shared their photos on here that clearly show regrowth and yet you and the same people are saying there is no evidence that DRing works. Instead those who share are harassed and told that their photos are BS with inconsistent lighting, length of hair or shot in different angles. The people who believe DRing works have already seen all the proof they need, my photos will not change the minds of those who have already decided experimental treatments are crap.

You DRed for less than 2 months and called it quits. Shame on you and sucks for your hair. Hair takes time to grow. After my hair transplant, it took 6+ months to see results.

I rolled for longer than 2 months FWIW. And rather bloody. It hasn't shown to be worth it.

The only harassment going on here was and is the hardcore 'believers' abusing anyone who questions the lack of evidence.

Asking people in a civilised manner for better, clearer visual evidence is not harassing people. I want dermarolling to work as much as anyone, but we need evidence, not blind faith.

Now look at the very first post on this thread from last July: the photos from the study are labelled as being after 12 weeks of treatment. Has anyone here or on any other hair loss forum had any vaguely comparable results? No.

 

[I.D WALKER]

My 3rd roll begins tomorrow. I'll continue beyond the 12 weeks. If I detect any progress after that I'll consider integrating DRing full time maybe just not as frequently. Trying to remain reservedly optimistic which is a job in itself.

ID Walker are you rolling just the twelve weeks? What roll are you on42220?

 

[I.D WALKER]

I'm sorry if you said this already do you mind telling me are you rolling over your HTed region? ( I don't mean your donor region) Thanx for sharing.

There have been a number of folks who have shared their photos on here that clearly show regrowth and yet you and the same people are saying there is no evidence that DRing works. Instead those who share are harassed and told that their photos are BS with inconsistent lighting, length of hair or shot in different angles. The people who believe DRing works have already seen all the proof they need, my photos will not change the minds of those who have already decided experimental treatments are crap.

You DRed for less than 2 months and called it quits. Shame on you and sucks for your hair. Hair takes time to grow. After my hair transplant, it took 6+ months to see results.

 

[CharlesXavier]

One of the things being discussed is that blood flow isnt the cause for male pattern baldness..im not saying its "the" reason but it deffenetily can be a factor...i have noticed the scalps of my friends that have good hair have a red tone to them....as if circulation was much better.usually people with balding heads have a shiny slick and paler look to them..obviously we do have some circulation duh but it is weakened..again obviously this isnt the only reason but male pattern baldness is a cluster **** of symptoms..any thoughts?

 

[Armando Jose]

I think I found the real reason for male pattern baldness. It is because we don't sleep on the top of our heads. You see, the horseshoe pattern comes about because when we sleep the sides and the back of our head are on a pillow and this forces the hairs to stay inside the follicles. They are basically forced in for several hours per night. Since the top of our head doesn't rest on the pillow, there is nothing to push on the hairs and keep them in the follicles.

So from now on, I am going to sleep on the top of my head only. Probably do it on a bed of nails so it is like dermarolling at the same time.

your comment is a corollary of my theory ..... not by forced hairs to stay but for problems with sebum flow.....

 

[I.D WALKER]

I'm reasonably satisfied with the innumerable clinical studies(no I haven't read them all):book: supporting the placebo/psychosomatic phenomenon. Albeit it's mechanism, so to speak is unknown or inexplicable , studies continue to demonstrate it has measurable enough degree of evidence worth noting. Undeniably it would be an added bonus to have the science behind DRing to substantiate it's efficacy. I've decided to give my "science comes first" attitude a back seat for a few months and allow myself permission to assimilate the less conventional fly on a whim and prayer mindset. As long as I prioritize proper sterilization methods each time I DR and consistently adhere to "my routine," I need not worry about much else. Just because I can afford to be ignorant does not necessarily mean that I enjoy this state. If I achieve any results even temporarily using DR the gifted horse can stay unwrapped in its paper package for the time being.:sun: I should also acknowledge that my experience will not necessary mirror anyone else's. All the best.

 

[Kirby]

What about dsd's photos? Are you blind?

dsd's photos are good, very good, and I encourage him to continue to monitor and photograph that area. However, his results so far do not 'prove' the effectiveness of dermarolling, as the images are consistent with a positive early response to minoxidil.

 

[I.D WALKER]

That's really a fair assessment Kirby . Whichever factor is responsible he's getting results, which is what counts the most right now IMHO.

 

[sweetsymphony]

dsd's photos are good, very good, and I encourage him to continue to monitor and photograph that area. However, his results so far do not 'prove' the effectiveness of dermarolling, as the images are consistent with a positive early response to minoxidil.

Figured you'd say that. The India study included minoxidil remember?

However, I don't disagree with the way you think either. It's just that if someone does get good results while they DR and use minoxidil, we won't truly know which helped.

 

[Kirby]

Figured you'd say that. The India study included minoxidil remember?

However, I don't disagree with the way you think either. It's just that if someone does get good results while they DR and use minoxidil, we won't truly know which helped.

But if dsd (if anyone else) hadn't used minoxidil, someone would've said "oh, he hasn't followed the study, his results are irrelevant". Sceptics just can't win whatever they say.

 

[benjt]

There are only two ways these DR community trials could've worked:

1) Test groups that are big enough to minimize statistical deviations, i.e. at least ~20 people only on minoxidil and at least ~20 in minoxidil + dermarolling, with approximately equal distribution of Norwood classifications in both groups. And, on top of that, all the people in both groups sticking to their regimen w/o changing it all the time.
2) People that have been on minoxidil a substantial amount of time to reach a stable state, i.e. where no more minoxidil-induced regrowth occurs. Depending on the person, this can be after 6 to 18 months. Once this stable state has been reached, you continue your minoxidil regimen but additionally dermaroll according to the study's protocol. This way, one could assess whether DR yields additional results over just using minoxidil.

 

[LayZ]

There are only two ways these DR community trials could've worked:

...

You mean:

The only way we could have determined if this really worked, was if we had an organized community trial.

Nothing like this remotely happened...

 

[sweetsymphony]

There are only two ways these DR community trials could've worked:

1) Test groups that are big enough to minimize statistical deviations, i.e. at least ~20 people only on minoxidil and at least ~20 in minoxidil + dermarolling, with approximately equal distribution of Norwood classifications in both groups. And, on top of that, all the people in both groups sticking to their regimen w/o changing it all the time.
2) People that have been on minoxidil a substantial amount of time to reach a stable state, i.e. where no more minoxidil-induced regrowth occurs. Depending on the person, this can be after 6 to 18 months. Once this stable state has been reached, you continue your minoxidil regimen but additionally dermaroll according to the study's protocol. This way, one could assess whether DR yields additional results over just using minoxidil.

I agree and like your scientific approach to this. However, it would be difficult to get all the testers to follow the study exactly and to monitor their own results without bias.

You will need to have someone else take the pictures or have microscopic ones like the photos dsd had taken at the exact spots. Someone will have to take charge to organize all of this and to analyze the final results. Obviously not everyone will see growth in either groups and the DR group will all be rolling at different strengths (difficult to control).

I like the idea of a community trial but don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[Parsia]

Guys , I'm going to do my 10th rolling tomorrow , But I will leave U.S for 2 weeks to see my family and I'm on vacation I can't do hard rolling , Because I don't like to see with itchy scalp and etc which you know , Since we need to do rolling for 12 weeks and then stop it for 2 months , do you have any suggestion for me ? do you think its better if I stop it at 10 weeks for 2 month or doing soft roll in next two weeks?

 

[bappenlabapp]

Hey guys, check out my thread about massage combined with DR. I have a fast regrowth of vellus hair...

Cheers, Thomas

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/78034-35-Norwood-2-Massage-and-Dermaroller