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New clinical trial intended to prove the Androgenetic Alopecia theory.

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by freakout, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. freakout

    freakout Experienced Member

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    sorry late reply. don't have as much time lately.

    It's really moot to say anything if you believe a direct DHT effect. A direct mininturizing effect of DHT AND genetics is exactly what Merck wants you to believe because it will be moot and useless to discuss anything else but kill DHT and that no amount of and no other method work.

    That's the reason why I can't get my mind off the presence of people who push the theory and even intimidate others who present alternative and scientifically supported theories. Are they working for Merck?

    Remember DHT should have no effect on your hair if you're not genetically programmed to respond to it in that manner. AND remember what I said about how trashy genetics is. Look up epigenetics in Wikipedia and you'll know our genes merely respond to our environment.

    Blood viscosity.. No effect whatsoever. Simple answers: There won't be a horseshoe pattern. But drinkng more water might have some small effect but I'd go for coffee or tea. Some studies suggest a logical positive effect. Drinking NOT applying it on the scalp.
     
  2. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
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    All scalp hair is genetically programmed to respond to androgens by being suppressed. It's just that the scalp hair of some guys is a lot more sensitive to androgens in that specific way than the scalp hair of others.
     
  3. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
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    Yes. At least, I've never heard of it being otherwise. By the way, female stumptailed macaques go bald, just like the males.
     
  4. squeegee

    squeegee Banned

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    Bryan, Are you a macaque? :dunno:
     
  5. squeegee

    squeegee Banned

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    LOL Tell me why acne show up a puberty or bodybuilders are suffering from acne when they overdose some steroids? Btw where did get your gay *** book so I can give the inside to people here? I don't mind spending the cash.

    Androgens increase the activity of sebaceous gland in both sexes . Hypertrophic sebaceous glands + colonization of Propionibacterium acnes (P.acnes)= inflammation. Inflammation induce hair grow not androgen..

    Bryan
    ...Here is some interesting studies...

    A possible specific receptor for 3-beta-androstanediol in the human sebaceous gland.
    Caballero MJ, Carreras E, Mallol J.
    Source

    Unidad de Farmacología, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad de Barcelona, Reus/Tarragona, Spain.
    Abstract

    Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) does not seem to be the active specific metabolite of testosterone in hypertrophic sebaceous glands of subjects affected by male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness) and several results indicate that probably 3-beta-androstanediol (beta DIOL) could be an active form of testosterone in those glands. Cytosol and serum from several patients affected by male pattern baldness and subjected to hair autotransplantation, was incubated with both beta DIOL and 3-alpha-androstanediol (alpha DIOL). Binding patterns indicate that alpha DIOL binds to cytosolic proteins probably due to the contaminating sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), whereas beta DIOL exhibits an atypical binding process in cytosol in the presence of high concentrations of non radioactive beta DIOL. This binding increases progressively up to 2 pmol/mg protein at the limit solubility conditions for the non radioactive steroid. This pattern is not observed in serum from the same patients, where the binding of beta DIOL is typically restricted to the SHBG. These results strongly suggest the existence of a specific beta DIOL-binding protein in the hypertrophic sebaceous glands and explain the lack of specific receptor for DHT in these tissues.


    Regional scalp differences of the androgenic metabolic pattern in subjects affected by male pattern baldness.
    Puerto AM, Mallol J.
    Source

    Unidad de Farmacología, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad de Barcelona, Reus/Tarragona, Spain.
    Abstract

    Regional differences in the androgen metabolism were established in alopecic and non alopecic areas of patients affected by male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness). 5-alpha-reductase (5-alpha-R) activity was measured by the formation of dihydrotestosterone (DHT), using 3H-testosterone as substrate: this activity was higher in the alopecic areas (3.4 pmol/g tissue/h) than in the non alopecic skin (1.5 pmol/g tissue/h). 3-alpha,beta-hydroxysteroid oxoreductase (3-alpha, beta-HO) was studied using 3H-DHT as precursor and measuring the corresponding formed 3-alpha- and 3-beta-androstanediols (alpha DIOL and beta DIOL). The beta DIOL was the predominant metabolite and total 3-alpha, beta-HO activity was higher in alopecic skin (12.4 pmol/g tissue/h) than in non alopecic areas (8.4 pmol/g tissue/h). Also 17, beta-hydroxysteroid oxoreductase was measured using either testosterone or DHT as substrates: androstenedione formed from testosterone was higher in hairy skin (12 pmol/g tissue/h) than in alopecic areas (6 pmol/g tissue/h); androstanedione formed from DHT was also higher in non alopecic areas (8.1 pmol/g tissue/h) than in alopecic skin (2.8 pmol/g tissue/h). The greater formation of beta DIOL in the sebaceous glands-enriched alopecic skin supports the hypothesis for a specific role of this metabolite in the control of the sebaceous activity.


    Rev Esp Fisiol. 1993 Mar;49(1):1-5.
    Guanylate cyclase activity in male pattern baldness. Stimulating effect of 3-beta-androstanediol.
    Puerto AM, Mallol J.

    Departamento de Ciencias M?dicas B?sicas, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad de Barcelona, Reus, Spain.
    Guanylate cyclase (GC) activity was measured in the cytosolic fraction of sebaceous gland-enriched skin samples obtained from alopecic and non-alopecic areas of subjects affected by male pattern baldness. GC activity was significantly higher in alopecic scalp (7.13 +/- 2.7 pmol/min/mg prot; n = 22) than in non-alopecic samples (3.91 +/- 0.48 pmol/min/mg prot; n = 8). 3-beta-androstanediol was able to increase GC activity up to 15% when added to the incubation medium (1 x 10(-5) M). The regional differences observed should be due to the larger size of the sebaceous glands in alopecic areas. The higher production of dihydrotestosterone and 3-beta-androstanediol in alopecic areas may also contribute to determine the level of GC in scalp skin. The role of second messenger systems in sebaceous glands to understand certain aspects of the action mechanism of androgens is discussed.
     
  6. slurms mackenzie

    slurms mackenzie Established Member

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    Similar ratios to each other 50:50 or closer to the human ratios, with a delay for FPB?
     
  7. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
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    I believe all macaques go bald, male and female alike.
     
  8. armandein

    armandein Established Member

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    [​IMG]

    A key question:
    8 years between these two photographs, ...,
    why the baldness area don’t move forward even when hair density continue decreasing?
     
  9. freakout

    freakout Experienced Member

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    Say again? Huh? Androgens are invovled in male pattern baldness because we're men and we have tons of it?

    What? Androgens are involved in the production of sebum and therefore 'causes' immunologic response?

    What's that? Androgens are involved in blood pressure regulation and therefore affects blood supply and "causes" higher incidence of hypertension in men?

    Say again? Androgens are involved in the production of semen and sperm, in the operation of the cardiovasular system, the nervous system and brain function????????????

    We are all nincompoops for believing that we are nothing but biochemical entities - a mind set that pharmaceutical companies thrives on.

    Androgens is like water in the lake. You don't blame water because some stupid guy drowns. You can't freeze or drain its water because ...

    you'll turn into an old man. DHT does not "cause" male pattern baldness as much as water does not cause the drowning.
     
  10. hairhoper

    hairhoper Experienced Member

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    NOBODY EVER SAID ANDROGENS CAUSE male pattern baldness.

    PLEASE SHUT UP WITH YOUR STUPID STRAW MAN ARGUMENT.
     
  11. freakout

    freakout Experienced Member

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    LOL. So who said DHT causes male pattern baldness?
     
  12. hairhoper

    hairhoper Experienced Member

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    NOBODY.

    What is your point. Oh wait you don't have one. Pointless troll.
     
  13. freakout

    freakout Experienced Member

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    Funny how it's you who's behaving like a troll. Do you have anyting to contribute to this forum?
     
  14. hairhoper

    hairhoper Experienced Member

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    What I said was totally on topic, and followed on sensibly from your post, thus it was a more than adequate contribution to the conversation, in contrast to your bullshit straw man trolling, so I'll just repeat myself.

    NOBODY EVER SAID ANDROGENS CAUSE male pattern baldness.

    PLEASE SHUT UP WITH YOUR STUPID STRAW MAN ARGUMENT.
     
  15. freakout

    freakout Experienced Member

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    Hmm.. Words and intimidation that can only be coming from a troll. People here aren't stupid.
     
  16. hairhoper

    hairhoper Experienced Member

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    Again, what is your point?

    NOBODY EVER SAID ANDROGENS CAUSE male pattern baldness.

    PLEASE SHUT UP WITH YOUR STUPID STRAW MAN ARGUMENT.


    This is a sensitive issue, understand what you're messing with. People come here looking for advice and are greeted with threads full of your nonsensical FUD posts. You see why that upsets people?

    I'd encourage you to give it a rest until you can string a meaningful argument together. At the moment you're just saying 'Androgens don't cause male pattern baldness', which we all know.

    What I'm saying is this is a straw man argument

    You're creating your own misrepresentation of the opposing (scientifically well-regarded) opinion which you can easily destroy. This is a tactic used by people who know full well they are in the wrong.

    It it not proving anything, it is not doing anyone any good. Give it up.
     
  17. freakout

    freakout Experienced Member

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    Have yourself upgraded to a moderator and ban me. Troll. My arguments are scientifically suported.
     
  18. hairhoper

    hairhoper Experienced Member

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    Let me clarify...

     
  19. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
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    Really?? So what exactly do YOU blame when some stupid guy drowns? The dust on his kitchen floor? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    In all seriousness to the legitimate readers here: all guys have androgens, of course, but not everybody experiences balding. The ones who do have balding, have scalp hair follicles that are unusually sensitive to the effects of androgens. Their hair follicles release significant amounts of various substances in response to androgens which suppress their growth, and may have other harmful effects on the rest of the follicle.

    Don't pay too much attention to the posts of certain other people here who have their own unfortunate agendas to push. Just react to their posts with the laughter that they deserve! :)
     
  20. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    :shock:
     

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