New & a bit scared of losing some hair - need advice :(

[Hoppi]

Heya guys

I decided to post here because I am trying to decide what's best to use to control the pretty small amount of hair loss I have had so far before it gets any worse. It actually really scared me when I first noticed it, I have very thick, italian hair and I am very attached to it, I have actually cried over the thought of losing it

So I hope to put together some kind of sustainable plan to save my hair with little risk of side effects! I would be so grateful for advice and thoughts on what I'm considering, as it can be hard to judge things alone!

Ok so, first off the bat I must admit I am a bit wary of Finasteride. I'm sure nothing bad would happen, but I've heard stories of people who have had permanent side effects and stuff (impotence and similar things), and I guess I'm just scared it might happen to me

So, I started to consider alternatives. As far as I can tell the best changes are in these areas:

DIET AND NUTRITION - I'm taking multivitamins and omega 3 daily, and balancing out my diet to try to ensure my insulin levels don't get too high (apparently raised insulin can reduce SHBG and so increase DHT).

5-ALPHA REDUCTASE INHIBITION - I am a bit stuck on this one. I am considering this chinese herbal remedy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingzhi_mushroom which apparently inhibits it, and combining this with a more direct application like Nizorelle shampoo - what would you recommend?

FOLLICLE STIMULATION - I'm considering this - http://www.alpecin.com/caffeine/ (it looks very promising elsewhere on the net) and also the occasional head massage to get the blood to the follicles flowing. I can't decide whether this or Tricomin based on copper peptides would be better.


So what do you think? I may also do regular head massages in areas where I find the follicles to be particularly struggling.

I know it all sounds a bit overly complex, but I am simply determined to put together the perfect combination for long term maintenance and saving of my hair!

Thanks guys, and if anyone has tried the Lingzhi mushroom or caffeine shampoo/liquid that would be great, as I'm aware they're more unusual choices!

Hoppi



EDIT -- Oh, final query, is there an advantage to inhibiting the DHT through a shampoo such as Nizoral (with Ketaconazole), or does it make little difference over a more internal solution such as Finasteride? Thanks

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

The big 3 aren't recommended because we're too lazy to type out lingzhi or caffeine, they're recommended because they are PROVEN to have a positive effect. Chinese medicine is definitely NOT proven to have any effect so take your mushrooms and your tiger's penis with a grain a salt, it might not really have any effect on your hair.

The reductase inhibitor you are looking at is somewhat shaky because basically that's what propecia/finasteride is. If you'e worried about the side effects of one, you should be worried about the side effects of the other. Also I do believe there are many report of people getting little to no results with topical finasteride so your topical mushroom idea doesn't sound all that good.

If you're considering caffeine and copper peptides just go with both, they're not expensive so it's easy enough to play around with them and caffeine is supposed to have a topical effect on hair growth, but that's not the same thing as preventing hair loss, it simply means that the hair that you haven't lost yet will grow more often possibly covering up the slack from the follicles you have lost. Until of course you lose those too.

Nizoral should be the first thing you start on once you get worried about your hair. Its topical application is proven to be effective and because it is topical and not internal there are many less side effects associated with it.

Really though if you are to the point of tears I suggest you go for a bit of shock treatment and just shave your whole head. I did it and it was quite liberating once I got used to it. Not only that but with little to no hair up there it allows for very easy and effective application of topicals in case you're trying to preserve and cranial 5'oclock shadow.

 

[let-it-grow]

Brains Expel Hair, are you from slybaldguys? Shaving off all your hair only because you start to thin a little is just like chopping off your head only because of a minor headache. This guy obviously don't want to lose his hair, then why advising he shaves it anyway?


Hoppi, how old are you? Losing a little hair is a part of a normal hair cycle stage, as long as you don't notice that your hair is getting thinner then you are not balding! You can lose a lot of hair and still have a full head of hair. If you could post a picture of your hair we could see if you have anything to worry about.

Is your father is bald? If so, when did he started to lose his hair? What about your both grandfathers and uncles? I advise you to not throw your money about things that weren't proven scientifically because then you'll ended up losing even more hair while doing your own experiments.. If what you have is male pattern baldness then Finasteride 1mg daily could stop your hair loss and even regrow hair. If you have any side effects then you can always stop taking Finasteride (and then of course lose everything that Finasteride helped you keep) or try a 0.5mg dose.

 

[Hoppi]

Brains Expel Hair, are you from slybaldguys? Shaving off all your hair only because you start to thin a little is just like chopping off your head only because of a minor headache. This guy obviously don't want to lose his hair, then why advising he shaves it anyway?


Hoppi, how old are you? Losing a little hair is a part of a normal hair cycle stage, as long as you don't notice that your hair is getting thinner then you are not balding! You can lose a lot of hair and still have a full head of hair. If you could post a picture of your hair we could see if you have anything to worry about.

Is your father is bald? If so, when did he started to lose his hair? What about your both grandfathers and uncles? I advise you to not throw your money about things that weren't proven scientifically because then you'll ended up losing even more hair while doing your own experiments.. If what you have is male pattern baldness then Finasteride 1mg daily could stop your hair loss and even regrow hair. If you have any side effects then you can always stop taking Finasteride (and then of course lose everything that Finasteride helped you keep) or try a 0.5mg dose.

aw thank you so much for being so understanding and nice, I really was quite... well shocked and a bit hurt by what you said Brains Expel Hair.

I am considering that mushroom because it is backed up by science and at least 2000 years of use, and is known to also help with anxiety and other things that aren't helping my efforts to keep my hair healthy. Why not look at things scientifically, and objectively? Minoxidil and Finasteride both have considerable known side-effects, of COURSE i am reluctant, of course I consider alternatives particularly if they sound as positive as that chinese option - this isn't speculation or hear-say it's SCIENCE.

I'm not saying I won't consider taking Finasteride and other stuff but I'm saying people never get anywhere by being closed minded and... well if you are suggesting shaving off hair - defeatist.

let-it-grow, again thank you, I am 24 years old with usually good, thick hair but recently it seems to be looking just a little weaker all over, it may be my imagination but... who knows eh? It really is very slight receding above my temples, I will show pictures but I am nervous and self-conscious, you know? It's a big shock for me, my hair is very important to me.

What you said about Finasteride, yes perhaps there is truth in what you're saying, I only went for the shroom as it's effects seem very balanced with no side-effects. I'm not sure how strong it's 5-alpha reductase inhibition is, which is the question that matters. Reputations are largely irrelevant, science is what matters.

I got scared of Finasteride when I read it could cause permanent impotence and similar problems in some people (a small group, but a group nevertheless). So, what does 0.5mg do, is that considered safer? I don't want to be drastic, but I want to be precise and clever in dealing with it

I mean largely, as long as I'm inhibiting some of my DHT I must be along the right lines, I'll have a good think about Finasteride, I'd love more opinions on the side-effects.

Thanks guys,

Hoppi

 

[let-it-grow]

The Chinese treatments are "alternative medicine" those things were never proved scientifically and that's why doctors don't prescribe mushrooms for male pattern baldness.

If your temples receded a little that doesn't mean your balding, maybe you're just developing a mature hairline like almost every other adult... Mature hairline is developed between the age of 16 to the age of 27 (usually) and it doesn't mean that you'll go bald. You should look above your temples and see if the hair there is thinning, if it's lighter and thinner then keep your eye on it.

If you're not sure if you're balding or not then go to a dermatologist and do a miniaturization. A dermatologist could do a miniaturization on your hair now and in 6 months and see if you are balding or not, although you could wait and see if you're balding by yourself if you give it time. You shouldn't start a male pattern baldness treatment if you are not 100% sure that you are balding and that it's a male pattern baldness. Also get blood tests, sometimes a person's hair in his entire head gets thinner and it could be because of some kind of a deficiency that causes it.

Is your father bald? What about both your grandparents? That's very important since male pattern baldness is 100% genetic.

 

[Hoppi]

The Chinese treatments are "alternative medicine" those things were never proved scientifically and that's why doctors don't prescribe mushrooms for male pattern baldness.

If your temples receded a little that doesn't mean your balding, maybe you're just developing a mature hairline like almost every other adult... Mature hairline is developed between the age of 16 to the age of 27 (usually) and it doesn't mean that you'll go bald. You should look above your temples and see if the hair there is thinning, if it's lighter and thinner then keep your eye on it.

If you're not sure if you're balding or not then go to a dermatologist and do a miniaturization. A dermatologist could do a miniaturization on your hair now and in 6 months and see if you are balding or not, although you could wait and see if you're balding by yourself if you give it time. You shouldn't start a male pattern baldness treatment if you are not 100% sure that you are balding and that it's a male pattern baldness. Also get blood tests, sometimes a person's hair in his entire head gets thinner and it could be because of some kind of a deficiency that causes it.

Is your father bald? What about both your grandparents? That's very important since male pattern baldness is 100% genetic.

erm, well the mushroom thing it's stated on Wikipedia (and cited to a scientific study of some sort) that it inhibits that enzyme. I mean to be fair I just thought well if it's regarded THAT highly in Chinese thinking (so as to call it the "mushroom of immortality"!) it can hardly do any harm! lol

But yes dw I won't rely on it by any stretch, and Finasteride is in my mind too as well as other things.

I think mostly my family has alright hair, my mum's side is italian and has generally good, thick hair but that seemed to recede in old age but that's normal, my dad is thinning but then he's in his 50s now. His brother is very thin on top though, not far off bald.

So it's a bit hard to say really! I inherited my hair mostly from my mum, which is why this has come as something of a shock! Diet, lifestyle and anxiety (stress levels) are the big 3 that I'm observing in myself at the moment.

I think the hair on my right temple is thinning yes, it just doesn't feel right. But then I guess I would say that..

Oh erm, do you know what the best way is to stimulate small patches of very weak follicles? I've been trying massage and using the caffeine liquid stuff, I'm a bit wary of Minoxidil as it seems a little strong, but is there a natural remedy of some sort that I could try as well that might shake those follicles back into some life?

Hopefully the multivitamins and omega 3 I am not taking can hardly hurt either!

Thanks so much for your time and posts,

Mike!

 

[let-it-grow]

Wikipedia! In wikipedia Homer Simpson is the President of the United States. Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information, it's not an encyclopedia. Even if mushrooms would decrease down DHT levels then they are not as effective as Finasteride.

Relying on Chinese treatments for hair loss would cause a lot of harm, in the next 2 years you'll try them you'll lose half your hair if your hair loss is aggressive. If in those 2 years you'll lose a good DHT inhibitor then things can be very different.

Even if you inherited you mother's great hair it means nothing, what matters is from who you inherited the gene that says if you'll go bald or not. You could even inherit this gene from your great grandfathers...


You can stimulate small patches of weak follicles with minoxidil, but if you won't use Finasteride with it then you won't keep the gained hair very long and once you'll quit using minoxidil this new hair you gained will be lost. A massage won't help the follicles since the follicles are INSIDE your scalp and you can't just stimulate them with massaging your scalp. Caffeine was never proven scientifically and I don't understand how it could...

The multivitamins and omega 3 would help only if your hair loss is from vitamin deficiency, if not you are just throwing your money and time away. Many people here used Omega 3 for a long time just to try to improve their hair naturally, in this time they relied on it they lost a lot of hair.. Same with Saw Palmetto.

 

[Hoppi]

Wikipedia! In wikipedia Homer Simpson is the President of the United States. Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information, it's not an encyclopedia. Even if mushrooms would decrease down DHT levels then they are not as effective as Finasteride.

Relying on Chinese treatments for hair loss would cause a lot of harm, in the next 2 years you'll try them you'll lose half your hair if your hair loss is aggressive. If in those 2 years you'll lose a good DHT inhibitor then things can be very different.

Even if you inherited you mother's great hair it means nothing, what matters is from who you inherited the gene that says if you'll go bald or not. You could even inherit this gene from your great grandfathers...


You can stimulate small patches of weak follicles with minoxidil, but if you won't use Finasteride with it then you won't keep the gained hair very long and once you'll quit using minoxidil this new hair you gained will be lost. A massage won't help the follicles since the follicles are INSIDE your scalp and you can't just stimulate them with massaging your scalp. Caffeine was never proven scientifically and I don't understand how it could...

The multivitamins and omega 3 would help only if your hair loss is from vitamin deficiency, if not you are just throwing your money and time away. Many people here used Omega 3 for a long time just to try to improve their hair naturally, in this time they relied on it they lost a lot of hair.. Same with Saw Palmetto.

oh look come on stop it I'm tired of people just bashing and taking pleasure in it

I never said I was JUST taking vitamins (which are proven to aid hair follicles) or Omega 3 (which is proven to improve blood flow) or caffeine (which is proven to encourage follicles to grow) or doing massages (which are proven to encourage bloodflow through the follicles), I said I was doing these as WELL as other things, and am very much considering Finasteride. Come on cut me some slack here I've only known about this since Friday night, I'm trying to understand the problem so I can best tackle it, I bet you anything if a GREAT new cure came along most people's first reaction would be to bash that too.

Sorry, people just need to open their minds just a LITTLE to other ideas, just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. You act like Finasteride is some religion or something ._.

And I still am mostly interested in my question about whether side-effects of finasteride are less common with the 0.5 dose? My guess would be yeah, but I'm just generally curious

 

[let-it-grow]

Nobody is bashing anything, just stating facts so you will not spend your valuable time. People who catch their male pattern baldness very early can even maintain for 10 years and more and in 10 years there will be a cure. But those who count on vitamins even that they don't have a deficiency they lose more hair and then their only choice is a transplant or shaved head.

Vitamins weren't prove to help hair follicles, it was proved to help gaining hair that was lost due vitamin deficiency. I had a vitamins deficiency and I took the vitamins and still my hair is the same after 4+ months.

Scalp massage was never proven to help blood flood to the scalp and caffeine doesn't encourage follicles to grow and there are studies that show the complete opposite (that it damages follicles). Your follicles are inside your scalp, you can't stimulate them with a massage... And even minoxidil is not good because the hair gained would be lost soon after since it doesn't fight the cause of hair loss..


I see male pattern hair loss as a condition, like a disease Disease are treated with medications, not anything else. Same way cancer is not treated with Chinese medicine...


People who have side effects with the 1mg tend to have less or none with the 0.5mg. I'll start going on finasteride soon probably and I'll start with the 0.5mg.

 

[cuebald]

If you're balding, then no anti-androgens = no hair.
I wish I had gotten Finasteride before my hair left me. It is no free lunch; there are side effects, but for me they were very mild. It is much better at preventing loss than at growing new hair.

Otherwise? I hope you have a nice hat.

 

[Hoppi]

I like the way you are both pretending that I am ignoring you, or that I am even disagreeing, which I'm not. Do you just like to feel right?

i KNOW finasteride is good, i KNOW how it works, but I am weighing up other things.

Anyway, I really don't want to argue anymore I'm so tired of arguments over minutiae on the internet. One thing I am really interested in though is that chemical stuff RU 58841, it sounds really interesting - what do you know about it? Are there other alternatives that are more readily available, or is it "one of a kind"?

Thanks

 

[Hoppi]

Ok how about this - I'll start on 2% Nizoral, then probably get some 0.5mg Finasteride and couple it with 1% Nizorelle? I just thought that way I'll have a fair clout of DHT inhibition with a slightly lower chance of side effects as some is topical. What do you think?

And then I'll probably also do the other stuff like try to balance my hormones and nutrients etc, and calm down my anxiety. That way I'm coming at this from every angle and although I think my testosterone levels may be high, I dont know why.

So what do you think is that ok?

 

[cuebald]

That sounds alright to me.
I don't use Minoxidil myself, as I don't really want the shedding it can cause - and I've read a few anecdotes saying it has aged the skin/caused baggy eyes etc.

I am looking into Copper Peptides (another topical) - I read much raving on here about them, but little on what they actually do.

 

[follicle84]

Sorry, people just need to open their minds just a LITTLE to other ideas, just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. You act like Finasteride is some religion or something ._.

I was like you when i first tried to do something about my hairloss. Trying alternative methods side effect free, avoiding finasteride. The reality is i ended up on finasteride. Sadly finasteride, dutasteride, nizoral and minoxidil are the best proven weapons against hairloss. Everthing else is a long shot that is nowhere near as effective as the previously mentioned treatments.

People here are just trying to save you time to realise this. For the record i quit finasteride from side effects, but dont regret it. I know now its just not for me. Minoxidil and copper peptides are all i have to go by and they have helped slow my hairloss.

One thing I am really interested in though is that chemical stuff RU 58841, it sounds really interesting

Now your talking. Theorectically its the most powerfull anti androgen ever made and works topically with no side effects. The problem is its difficult to obtain from a reliable source, its expensive, and can be unstable (needs to be stored at certain temperatures). You would have to learn to be a little bit of a chemest to use this. A few people claim to use this on this forum.

I too am interested in trying this by the way since i cant tollerate internal anti androgens.

 

[Hoppi]

Sorry, people just need to open their minds just a LITTLE to other ideas, just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. You act like Finasteride is some religion or something ._.

I was like you when i first tried to do something about my hairloss. Trying alternative methods side effect free, avoiding finasteride. The reality is i ended up on finasteride. Sadly finasteride, dutasteride, nizoral and minoxidil are the best proven weapons against hairloss. Everthing else is a long shot that is nowhere near as effective as the previously mentioned treatments.

People here are just trying to save you time to realise this. For the record i quit finasteride from side effects, but dont regret it. I know now its just not for me. Minoxidil and copper peptides are all i have to go by and they have helped slow my hairloss.

Thank you so much for being honest and understanding, like I said in other threads my head has been buzzing recently thinking of ideas and re-evaluating nearly every part of myself!

Thing is, while you may be right for some people, I think reasons for losing hair vary a LOT. The balance varies. For me, I think it's mostly my own body rebelling against me for treating it badly, I think I'm basically getting what I deserved lol

True, perhaps my hair follicles are genetically susceptible on account of being a male with reasonable testosterone and maybe they are poorly designed (as are all guys' follicles who might get DHT-induced hair loss) and that is why I will be trying to hit my DHT levels as well (I am thinking of using Saw Palmetto extract which apparently works very well and is readily available - do you know much about it? And I am very sorry Finasteride party but I do avoid taking harsh drugs with known side-effects in favour of natural remedies if I can).

One thing I am really interested in though is that chemical stuff RU 58841, it sounds really interesting

Now your talking. Theorectically its the most powerfull anti androgen ever made and works topically with no side effects. The problem is its difficult to obtain from a reliable source, its expensive, and can be unstable (needs to be stored at certain temperatures). You would have to learn to be a little bit of a chemest to use this. A few people claim to use this on this forum.

I too am interested in trying this by the way since i cant tollerate internal anti androgens.

It does look great doesn't it? Have you heard any success stories? Maybe we should form more knowledge on this and then work on getting some

If it works, is it permanent? Or does it wear off from the follicles? Sorry, excuse my ignorance I am still learning


EDIT -- Oh, sorry, edit, I never said I thought that male tendency to lose hair is SOLELY down to diet and lifestyle, even in my case, I fully understand the science, or at least more than sufficiently

That's why I'm bunging a couple of DHT and (mild, such as soymilk) testosterone inhibitors in there, to smooth out my levels and take the edge off. I'm coming at this from every angle to make sure I keep my hair and regrow the tiny bits I've lost!

 

[let-it-grow]

That's why I'm bunging a couple of DHT and (mild, such as soymilk) testosterone inhibitors in there, to smooth out my levels and take the edge off. I'm coming at this from every angle to make sure I keep my hair and regrow the tiny bits I've lost!

Soy milk has estrogen, if you'll drink a lot of soy milk it will not help your hair loss at all but it could help you grow some very big tits if you're interested in that.


And RU58841 is not permanent, you apply it everyday for the rest of your life or until there's a cure for hair loss. It stops your hair loss and it's like Finasteride just much better and more powerful. Instead of lowering the DHT in your entire body like Finasteride does, it would lower DHT only on your scalp. Your DHT levels in the scalp would be much lower if you use RU58841 comparing to if you use Finasteride. It's available from China and 10grams would cost you $400.

You can read this entire thread about RU58841, which would take you a long time but it will educate you about RU58841. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=54597&st=0&sk=t&sd=a .