Negative factors PKC, TGF. Research papers and Discussion

[Beethoven]

Hi everyone,

So the negative factors are mentioned here in this forum from time to time, and yet 95% of the discussions are androgen related.
If I understand the theory correctly, after DHT binds to the receptors, the negative factors are "activated" and damage the follicles, and we get shedding and also miniaturization.
If this is correct, the idea is to leave alone the DHT and the receptors, i.e. do not reduce it internally or topically, and only intervene in the negative factors phase.

The main question is: suppose we leave alone the hormonal treatment and concentrate on reducing negative factors, could this still halt hairloss???

We have many negative factors, but I want to emphasize on two: PKC and TGF.

PKC could be inhibited with procyandins which are found in applepoly. Applepoly is already available in two competing commercial products already: PolyGrow(the one with parrot) and Spectral RS.
The following link have links to 7(!) papers about applepoly, all by the same group of Japanese researchers
http://www.applepolyphenols.com/studies/hairgrowth.htm

I have two things to mention:
1.The results seem good. So why people are not discussing it? how come almost no one here is trying to add it to his regimen?
2. Those 7 articles give a lot of information about the effectivness of the treatment, and yet products that we have almost zero information about them receive a lot more of attention (On Tricomin we have only one press-report and zero research papers. On Prox-N we have only the promises of Dr proctor, etc,etc).

TGF: there are two articles claiming that TGF could be inhibited by L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate, both were sponsered by Henkel. One is In-Vitro and the Other is In-vivo, showing good results! How come no one tries it here???

BTW I tried Both the internal and external treatments (Propecia, topical spironolactone, Fluridil). All of them were pretty effective in reducing my hairloss, but all of them also gave me sides (yes, the topicals too). So right now I'm trying this route. I have the two AP products and the LCLT product and I'm trying them for few months. Still too early to really judge, but they do seem to help a little.

 

[michael barry]

right off the top of my head ---thrombospondin, Fiberblast growth factor 5, DKK-1, TGF-beta 2 are also dermal papilla negative growth factors and TNF-alpha is a negative factor not from the papilla involved in induction of the catagen growth phase as well as PKC and TGF-beta. I think there is one more, but I forget its name.



The thing is...............................is that before hairs "become" male pattern baldness follicles, they still secrete these things, but in lesser amounts, in the normal regulation of a hair cycle. We have speculated for years that the overexpression of a particular one of them like TGF-beta 1 or 2 or perhaps DKK-1 was "the" big factor in baldness. TGF beta is associated with excessive collagenous deposition in other auto-immune disorders around the body, and DKK_1 has been shown to cause apoptosis in keratinocytes, meaning basically it might be killing cells while they are still in the body and the dead keratinocytes still in the infidula (where the first inflammation in Androgenetic Alopecia is seen) might induce the initial auto-immune response----which itself may damage follicle DNA enough to engender a much larger immune response



What it is in the hair follicle DNA that "switches" from happy hair to male pattern baldness -hair in response to androgens might be the big home run if they could ever find it. Bryan has brought out that if we could ever find why body hair likes androgens and head hair begins to respond negatively might be all we'd have to find. My bet is that due to us inheriting a particular variant of the androgen receptor gene that male pattern baldness hairs simply get too much androgen uptaken and begin to respond negatively to it based on experiments that overloaded donor-area occipital scalp hair with androgens like testosterone and dihydrotestosterone and seen that hair basically become male pattern baldness hair-----showing that it too could succumb to baldness if it simply had enough androgenic-stimulis.



Good luck on looking into it.

 

[larry27]

:agree:

i think the same, the androgen via is not the solution there are more
[Dutas dont cure totally the baldness and eat almost all the dht]
i have two monts with the l-carnitine
is early to say something but i see better my hair

await a few monts for more results

 

[Beethoven]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the detailed explaination!

From all those factors that you mentioned we can "deal" only with PKC and TGF (don't know which type), and doing this only with AP and LCLT which their strength is not yet fully proven, although the articles does give us something. So, what's your opinion about what we have now?

 

[larry27]

looks that high dosis of e vitamin can also downregulation The pkc

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10588370