Need input on next step

[Felk]

Hahaha, well i should search and see if I can dig it up Though, compared to finasteride and minoxidil success stories, it's still only one.

Also, with it being all natural, with no side effects, the success would get much greater publicity you think. Granted, this is speculation, but it's still a convincing argument to me.

What do you think is "dodgy" about the pics?

The picture i think is dodgy is the one taken from a completely different angle. One "after" picture is taken with the head tilted forward, if i remember correctly, which makes gives a much better appearance of hair thickness.

But there's that mysterious "trial" the makers keep saying they're running, though people were emailing them about it's progress years ago.

 

[CCS]

i just remembered that since a peptide bond is formed when the carboxyl group of the fatty acid interacts with the alcohol group on the fat, and two hydrogens and 1 oxygen from water. to do the reverse process, you must add water to the oils. three molecules for every oil molecule. actually you need more than that to make sure the glycerol is the limiting reactant, since the water is cheap.

the pressure keeps the water from evaporating. so i don't need increadible pressure.

and the heat provides the activation energy needed to break the bonds. breaking the water bonds takes the most, since it is so stable. I wonder what temperature is needed to make it sponteneous for enough molecules to react, and not damage the structure of the acids. i'd like to throw some omega-3's in there two, and they are fragile at least in a frying pan.

in order for the reaction to take place in a timely manner, you must increase the water oil contact area, which is hard because they don't like each other. that does make the wide area of a pressure cooker nice, but make it hard to skim off the glycerol. i'd rather seal everything in a strong container and do this in the lab with a stir bar and get a tornado going in there.

but what vessel to use. if I can see the glycerol on top, that will tell me when it is done. i can calculate how much should be in there when it is done by looking up the density of glycerol and doing some mole calculations.

 

[Bryan]

Hahaha, well i should search and see if I can dig it up Though, compared to finasteride and minoxidil success stories, it's still only one.

It's not the only one. There are others, too.

Revivogen is much like Proxiphen in this regard: there's a hardcore group of real Proxiphen haters out there, for reasons which aren't entirely clear to me. Although I haven't seen any of this lately, people on hairloss sites would sometimes make SWEEEEEEPING statements like, "I have NEVER seen anyone, not one single person, ever claim to have gotten any benefit from Proxiphen in all the years I've been reading this board!!". And that's despite the fact that I've seen a whole bunch of people make that claim, over the years! :wink: I finally got so sick and tired of seeing that, I went and searched through old alt.baldspot posts, and saved about a dozen of them that had glowing reports of Proxiphen usage. So whenever I'd see anyone make the claim above, I'd post all 12 of them, one after another! That always tickled me to death when I got to do that!

People tend not to have very good memories of past posts about substances or products that they're not really interested in, or dislike for some reason. They usually remember the BAD posts, but not the GOOD posts. I think that includes Revivogen.

What do you think is "dodgy" about the pics?

The picture i think is dodgy is the one taken from a completely different angle. One "after" picture is taken with the head tilted forward, if i remember correctly, which makes gives a much better appearance of hair thickness.

They might not be taken with the highest degree of professionalism, but I hardly think that the slightly different angle in one of those sets of pics is anywhere near enough to invalidate the obvious improvement that is clearly visible.

Bryan

 

[powersam]

as to the storage, instead of stuffing around with water or inert gases, why not just put it in a plastic bottle that and when you've used it squeeze the bottle until the oil inside is level with where the lid will seal then screw the cap on. no air in the bottle then.

good luck with this collegechemistrystudent, would very much appreciate it if you'd let us know what you eventually come up with.


"So whenever I'd see anyone make the claim above, I'd post all 12 of them, one after another! That always tickled me to death when I got to do that! Very Happy "

that is so very Bryanlike. :lol:

 

[Bryan]

i just remembered that since a peptide bond is formed when the carboxyl group of the fatty acid interacts with the alcohol group on the fat...

It's an ester linkage, not a peptide bond.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

as to the storage, instead of stuffing around with water or inert gases, why not just put it in a plastic bottle that and when you've used it squeeze the bottle until the oil inside is level with where the lid will seal then screw the cap on. no air in the bottle then.

Yes, I've posted about that, too, in the past. My understanding is that you can buy "collapsible containers" at photography supply-shops for storing various oxidation-sensitive chemicals that photographers use. The container shrinks-down as you withdraw the contents, keeping air out. Quite similar to that is those special wine containers that you can get. The wine comes in a flexible bag that shrinks down automatically as you draw the wine out of a spigot in the corner, keeping air out.

"So whenever I'd see anyone make the claim above, I'd post all 12 of them, one after another! That always tickled me to death when I got to do that! Very Happy "

that is so very Bryanlike. :lol:

Hey, I'm nothing, if not predictable!

Bryan

 

[CCS]

Pressue cookers usually add 1 atm of pressure. Water at 120 degrees celius has a vapor pressure just under 1 atm above atmospheric pressure.
So the water will be at about 120 degrees celcius.

20 mL of water for every 250mL of oil is the minimum water needed to break the ester links. Use 250 mL water for good measure. It will heat the oil from underneath, send steam through it, and the steam will cook the top was well.

Need about 250 kJ to break the bonds of 20 mL of water. That is the most stable bond. The others will need less, and energy is released back when new bonds form. Need 3500 kJ to get 250 mL of water up to 120 degrees. If 100 mL evaporates, that is 1600 kJ more. Since the energy needed to boil off 4 oz of water is so much greater than the energy needed to break water bonds, the reaction should not take long. I think 30 minutes would do it.

Fatty acids react with glycerol to make oils and react with alcohols to make waxes. These are bi-products we don't want, though excess water helps prevent this. The bi-products are catalized at high pH levels, such as 7 or above because the de-protonated fatty acids are free to react again.

Fatty acids can react to form esters, especially at pH's above pKa of fatty acid. I think a lower pH would catalize the dissintegration of oils. pH 4-5 would be good. This is also near the pH of the scalp. Acid acid could do this, but I'd prefer HCl, since the acitate might react. Adding vitamin E before hand could help favor the desired products.

We could make a ester bond with the alcohol end of RU and the carboxy group of the fatty acids, getting something similar to RUM. Need a pH probably near 7 for that, perhaps, but I don't want the fatty acids reacting with each other.

 

[Felk]

Hahaha, well i should search and see if I can dig it up Though, compared to finasteride and minoxidil success stories, it's still only one.

It's not the only one. There are others, too.

Revivogen is much like Proxiphen in this regard: there's a hardcore group of real Proxiphen haters out there, for reasons which aren't entirely clear to me. Although I haven't seen any of this lately, people on hairloss sites would sometimes make SWEEEEEEPING statements like, "I have NEVER seen anyone, not one single person, ever claim to have gotten any benefit from Proxiphen in all the years I've been reading this board!!". And that's despite the fact that I've seen a whole bunch of people make that claim, over the years! :wink: I finally got so sick and tired of seeing that, I went and searched through old alt.baldspot posts, and saved about a dozen of them that had glowing reports of Proxiphen usage. So whenever I'd see anyone make the claim above, I'd post all 12 of them, one after another! That always tickled me to death when I got to do that!

People tend not to have very good memories of past posts about substances or products that they're not really interested in, or dislike for some reason. They usually remember the BAD posts, but not the GOOD posts. I think that includes Revivogen.

What do you think is "dodgy" about the pics?

The picture i think is dodgy is the one taken from a completely different angle. One "after" picture is taken with the head tilted forward, if i remember correctly, which makes gives a much better appearance of hair thickness.

They might not be taken with the highest degree of professionalism, but I hardly think that the slightly different angle in one of those sets of pics is anywhere near enough to invalidate the obvious improvement that is clearly visible.

Bryan

Hehehe well that's actually a little comforting. I'd be glad to be proved wrong with revivogen. But god, if it ever worked for me, i'd make sure i'd shout it to the rooftops, and put everyone's mind at ease.

However, there are a few other problems i had with revivogen when i considered it a while ago. One that leaps to mind is the 90-day money back guarantee, when they clearly state on their site it takes at least 6 months to see results!

On a completely different matter, I realised my choice of word, "dodgy," just then. I'm not sure if this is just an australian expression, or if it exists in America too... but have you ever attempted to explain the meaning of "dodgy" or "shifty" to someone who's native language isn't english?

I tried it once in germany, and had to resort to shifting my beer glass across the table, in an attempt to describe the "dodging" that was going on... very difficult expression to give a succint definition of

 

[Bryan]

On a completely different matter, I realised my choice of word, "dodgy," just then. I'm not sure if this is just an australian expression, or if it exists in America too...

Don't worry, we use that word here, too!

Bryan

 

[Old Baldy]

Ok, that's interesting. It might be somewhat cost-effective to use that ultra-cheap stuff, although I'm not quite sure about applying relatively large amounts of it at a time (since oleic acid is only rather minimally effective as a 5a-reductase inhibitor) to your scalp or skin. See the various studies about the replacement of linoleic acid with oleic acid in the skin as a possible factor in the etiology of acne.

Btw, here's the generally accepted order of effectiveness of the C:18 fatty acids as 5a-reductase inhibitors, from MOST effective to LEAST effective:

GLA greater than ALA (alpha-linolenic acid) greater than linoleic acid greater than oleic acid greater than stearic acid (which has no effectiveness at all, being saturated).

Suffice it to say that is at the "lower end" of the effectie fatty acids. It isn't the type of stuff Revivogen would use IMHO. IT's too "basic".fatty acids are effective in the "Reviogen" sort of way if you know what I mean.

Bryan

Bryan: I DO NOT recommend this oleic acid as a DHT inhibitor!!! I only use it as a penetration enhancer.

From what I've read about free fatty acids, I do not think this fits the bill!!! I don't know for sure, just my gut level opinion. (Oh, it might inhibit androgens a little bit?)

Like Bryan said, oleic acid is near the bottom of the list of the effective free fatty acids.

Let me repeat, I do not think this oleic acid I'm talking about fits the bill for what Bryan is saying about free fatty acids. Please don't ask me to explain. I don't feel like writing that much and I might make as many errors as accurate statements. LOL!!

I will say this, my gut level opinion is you'd want the "ultra pure" oleic acid to mimic Revivogen's action. (?) And that stuff costs a fortune!

 

[CCS]

well I'm going to experiment with corn oil before I mess up my borage seed oil. but it looks like flax and borage are all I need for the DHT. I just want to know how long it takes them to form esters if they are left in alcohol at room temperature.


do you think GLA needs a penetration enhancer?

 

[Felk]

I checked ebay, and the only seller i could find for revivogen is selling 3 boxes of 3 6ml bottles of the stuff, for $99. Im not sure if its actually 9 bottles like it says, or maybe 3 and just pleading ignorance, as this site sells 3 for $90.

Well, if its $99 for 9 bottles, then i'll give it a go. Couldn't hurt i guess

 

[CCS]

especially at 6 oz. revivogen.com sells 3 2oz bottles for $89. i wonder who made the 6oz bottles.

 

[Felk]

No no, you're reading it wrong.

60ml. Ie 2oz.

 

[powersam]

Quite similar to that is those special wine containers that you can get. The wine comes in a flexible bag that shrinks down automatically as you draw the wine out of a spigot in the corner, keeping air out.

Bryan

for your information Bryan those 'specialty wine containers' you refer to are actually an australian invention. and their official name is Goon Bag.

 

[CCS]

felk, $90 is suspiciouly closs to 89. unless there is a not saying someone does not want it anymore, I think the company is selling on ebay. many big companies sell on ebay.

 

[Felk]

Quite similar to that is those special wine containers that you can get. The wine comes in a flexible bag that shrinks down automatically as you draw the wine out of a spigot in the corner, keeping air out.

Bryan

for your information Bryan those 'specialty wine containers' you refer to are actually an australian invention. and their official name is Goon Bag.

Holy sh*t Sam, are you serious? We invented the goon bag?!?

God, i just came back from a hard (but very good) night out punishing the old sack. I know, i know, it's bad....

 

[powersam]

felk you hobo, bet you drank it in a park somewhere as well.

 

[Felk]

Hahahaha, no it was at a party, though we were sorta frowned upon by many of our friends... but god, when it's $6 for 4 litres of Sunnyvale Lambrusca, you really know it's goon hehehe

Yuck, not doing that again for a long time

 

[rkim]

Well, I'm just about to finally order the spironolactone 5% and don't see the cream on Dr Lees site. I see spironolactone 5% in a lot of your regimens. Are you using the lotion? College mentioned using the cream with ppg. What's the deal?