cloudsanrain
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I am going to make some topical melatonin with powder an dont no how much melatonin to add to a 2 oz bottle . I am also going add PG an ethanol . anybody hav any idea how much to add ?
Need help making a home made melatonin topical using powder ?
- Thread starter cloudsanrain
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The effectiveness of a topical is related to how long it stays around the follicle and does not go systemic. The melatonin studies that used alcohol were leaking into the blood stream even 24 hours later.
This has been the Holy Grail of mankind for years to develop an antiandrogen/drug/nutraceutical that stays locally and not exactly a trivial task.
I would stick with a base like Dermabase or another oil in water premade cream because that is what they used in this study somewhere else I posted where there was very little systemic leakage with their oil in water base.
It always helps to wet the powder to make a paste with whatever it is soluble in before blending it into the cream. Melatonin is slightly soluble in water so it will make a paste and blend it into the cream. Skip this step and you have a gritty cream.
Buy a .01 gram scale on ebay or amazon for under $50. Mix the powder in with a plastic knife. You can slightly adjust the consistency of the cream afterwards by adding more of whatever solvent the base was made from. This would just be water and just add a slight amount.
This has been the Holy Grail of mankind for years to develop an antiandrogen/drug/nutraceutical that stays locally and not exactly a trivial task.
I would stick with a base like Dermabase or another oil in water premade cream because that is what they used in this study somewhere else I posted where there was very little systemic leakage with their oil in water base.
It always helps to wet the powder to make a paste with whatever it is soluble in before blending it into the cream. Melatonin is slightly soluble in water so it will make a paste and blend it into the cream. Skip this step and you have a gritty cream.
Buy a .01 gram scale on ebay or amazon for under $50. Mix the powder in with a plastic knife. You can slightly adjust the consistency of the cream afterwards by adding more of whatever solvent the base was made from. This would just be water and just add a slight amount.
@OtyMac Do you think that, even if melatonin goes sytemic, the benefits for hair will be evident or not? The pharmacy I use has trichosol and trichofoam in addition to hydroalcoholic solutions. I'm not sure if they have creams available.
Here's the study if anyone is interested... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681103/
Here's the study if anyone is interested... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681103/
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What % lotion you want to create ? didn't read the studies, not sure what dose they used.
Well.. the study you posted about a topical .0033% solution would be beyond the needs or ability to measure that precise. You would have to have a legit lab scale with enclosed in glass to get an accurate measurement or add 3.3 grams of melatonin into a 100,000 gram batch.
This study also had no traces of melatonin that went systemic but that could have been to the very low dose too. The female alopecia group used 0.1% which can be measured without a chemist grade lab scale.
We can also garner information from other topical melatonin studies.
Dose dependent sun protective effect of topical melatonin: A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study - PubMed
Application of melatonin cream 12.5% protects against natural sunlight induced erythema.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Results: Significant difference in erythema formation was found between areas treated with melatonin cream 12.5% and areas receiving placebo or no treatment (repeated measures ANOVA p=0.001). No differences were found between placebo and the 0.5% and 2.5% concentrations.
Effect of topical application of melatonin cream 12.5% on cognitive parameters: A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind crossover study in healthy volunteers - PubMed
This study was the first to assess degree of cognitive dysfunction resulting from application of melatonin cream on a full body surface area. The results support that melatonin is a safe drug for dermal application even in a high dosage.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Age Associated Decrease of MT-1 Melatonin Receptor in Human Dermal Skin Fibroblasts Impairs Protection Against UV-Induced DNA Damage
The human body follows a physiological rhythm in response to the day/night cycle which is synchronized with the circadian rhythm through internal clocks. Most cells in the human body, including skin cells, express autonomous clocks and the genes responsible ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Thoughts:
even though the melatonin receptors decrease their sensitivity in the pineal gland by light/dark timing we don't know that is true for skin. Even if the melatonin receptors shut down in the skin the high concentrations overcome that and that is why the studies above didn't work at less than 12.5%. There was no change in the psychological factors(with the 12.5%)irregardless if melatonin went systemic which I'm sure it did.
Have we used a high enough dose of melatonin?
You know that babies have the highest scalp hair growth in their life with high melatonin levels? They are literally sleeping their way to a full head of scalp hair(hahah). Also, elderly people who generally have LOTS less hair also sleep less.
I know the correlation doesn't equal causation but it's something to think about.
Many other factors effect pineal gland melatonin production and I'm sure effect skin produced melatonin levels too.
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cloudsanrain
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I would just like to no how much melatonin powder to add to a 2oz bottle ?
For a 2% solution:
Add 1200 mg pure melatonin to the empty 60 ml(2 oz) bottle and fill with ethanol.
https://www.caymanchem.com/pdfs/14427.pdf
The solubility of melatonin in ethanol is approximately 20 mg/ml
Add 1200 mg pure melatonin to the empty 60 ml(2 oz) bottle and fill with ethanol.
https://www.caymanchem.com/pdfs/14427.pdf
The solubility of melatonin in ethanol is approximately 20 mg/ml
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In your previous post, you said that alcohol based compounds get absorbed systemically and do not stay in the follicles. So should we compound it with a cream? Or better yet maybe get a commercially available liquid formulation and dilute further to the desired concentration? Also, what scales are available to purchase that can measure 50 mg or less? I bought some bimatoprost powder and would like to make a 0.01% solution.
cloudsanrain
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I think straight ethanol would be a little hard on the scalp . I was thinking more on the line of a 40% ethanol , 20% PG and a 40% water to a 2oz bottle then add melatomin .
That's fine but when you start mixing solvents then the data for how much melatonin you can dissolve becomes worthless. Just dissolve as much as you can into it. The PPG I think will keep it more local longer too.
Understanding the 3 Rs + L of an Analytical Balance - Tovatech
Weighing parameters vary on analytical balances. Know your weighing requirements before making a selection. Here are some suggestions.
tovatech.com
It looks like you could be off a maximum of +- 5 mg if you add linearity and repeatability together. Not a big deal IMHO unless you are using some extreme care in applying 1 ml or whatever then what is 5 mg? Some day you might apply .9 ml or 1.1 ml, so what would extreme accuracy on chemical weight mean when you are destroying it by application amount?
Thank you, everyone, for the suggestions on the scales. I bought one from Amazon and it was useless. I couldn't measure anything so now I have a bag of estriol powder, bimatoprost, and SMI. It would be so much easier if I can just compound the entire thing and have it stable for a long time.
Can I suggest that you purchase an available off-the-shelf and cheap topical melatonin product that has worked for me as per the various research studies have concluded, being that it stops hair from shedding.
See my post below.
Hi. Do you have a recommendation? I live in the US.
Is Food Grade PG okay to use? https://www.amazon.com/99-9-Pure-Gr...x=polyethylene+glycol+compound,aps,168&sr=8-8
From the studies that I have read, melatonin has very low toxicity even at very high doses.
But whether it only works in low doses or also works in higher doses is an open question.
I know at higher doses it apparently has anti-cancer properties.
It also reduces female breast growth.
I really don’t know why the clinical trial only used such low doses. I cannot find any study that used more than 0.1% concentration
looks like it's not available in the US. what strength of melatonin does it have?