My Zix Experience - How B6 And Zinc Have Saved My Hair | HairLossTalk Forums

My Zix Experience - How B6 And Zinc Have Saved My Hair

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments' started by worm, Oct 18, 2016.

  1. worm

    worm Senior Member My Regimen

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    Hi Everyone,

    Ive mentioned it on a few threads here, to stop DHT, I use a mix of vitamin B6 (p5p) and Zinc (sulfate) mixed with ethyl alcohol (70%) and distilled water that I topically rub on my scalp. It was invented by a poster named Joe, dating back to at least 2005 that I discovered on the hairlosshelp website.

    While I cant claim it's as effective as finasteride, in my personal experience over the last 11+ years of using it I am convinced it has stopped me me from going bald. I'll give you my story and I'll follow up by posting the formula.

    ++

    My Story
    --

    I am 39 y/o, and started my losing my hair around 18 back in 1995, when i noticed my hairline which used to be a fortress of hair, looked a tiny bit thinner. I used to be that guy who was voted as having the best head of hair in my high school. Anyhow, I chalked it up to wearing a hat, until about a year later, when I began to get a crazy itchy scalp in my first year of university. At that point, being 19, I noticed my hair started shedding like crazy, 200 hairs, it would fall on my textbooks, my notepads, i would shake my hair out and 60 hairs would fall out with little effort - I was freaking out for months, staring at my hair for hours a day, I was compulsive. My first effort was to control the itch which was driving me crazy, tar shampoos, selsum blue, H&S, none of it worked. my scalp was red, inflammed, and was excreting puss which would dry into yellow crusts. I was totally depressed seeing my hair go down the drain. Eventually I found a hippy derm who recommended zinc (25 mgs gluconat), that helped me with the itch considerably, and the shedding decreased, even though i was still losing.

    Eventually I found another great derm (who was experiencing hair loss himself), who put me on minoxidil + retin a, and eventually finasteride in 97 (I believe), which was not really known at the time. Eventually things stabilized, and by my 3rd year of university I had great hair again.

    The one thing that got to me is the sides. I had trouble with words, felt tongue tied, I got depressed, felt mentally slow and confused (i.e. brain fog), . It was like I was watching my life through a window. I had soft wood and low libido, but sex still felt amazing. My muscle mass decreased and I felt feminine. But I had great hair, looked great and had no trouble meeting women. I never developed any significant facial hair even at 39 (which i should have according to my dad's side), and my body hair (legs and arms) thinned. I attribute this to finasteride messing with hormones during the last stage of me becoming an adult. Life wasnt great because I was depressed, but I had a good job and looked great. I relied on my good looks, which I knew were fleeting and unsustainable.

    Fast forward to when I was 27; after getting dumped by my girlfriend that I lived with, I was on a business trip and forgot to take my finasteride with me. After a few days of not being on it, I felt like a cloud was lifted from my head. I knew, having experimented a little before, that it was due to a lack of finasteride. I felt the best I had felt in years (pre finasteride). It was at this point I said F' it, and that if after a month, my hair started to fall, I would jump back on finasteride. Sure enough after a month it started to fall and fast, but I felt so good, that I refused to go back to finasteride. I believe my depression and moodiness drove my ex away, so I was determined to feel good from that point on. I had more energy, thought much more clearly, and was wayyyyy happier. I gained about 10 lbs of muscle mass (over the months). While tempted, I refused to go back on. At which point the itching and shedding returned.

    It was end 2004, and I used minoxidil which eventually turned into another mix, which ended up regrowing more hair than even before finasteride. It had major sides, and started giving me palpitations and screwing up my vision. After 6-9 months, I stopped and was back at square 1. Shedding, itching back. I just thought if I could just find something that could reduce this f'in itch and restore my scalp to a healthy state, my hair should stabilize.

    It was at this point I discovered Zix, created by a poster named Joe (I'll post his site later). A lot of people were having success on it. It's made up of vitamin B6 and Zinc mixed with ethyl alcohol and distilled water. He quoted a study showing that zinc sulfate + B6 (p5p) reduces scalp dht. I said why not, I ordered the vitamins from independent store on amazon, and mixed up the concoction per his recipe (classic zix). Within a couple days, my itch was gone, it was a god send. The itch used to be so bad, I wanted to tear into my scalp with a fork. Anyhow, my scalp looked much like it did pre hairloss, white and healthy. Within a week or two, the shedding had gone down to next to nothing, and my hair recovered. It still was thinner than 9-12 months prior when I was still on finasteride, but my hair still looked really good.

    Over the years (11 years since dropping finasteride, and 19 since starting male pattern baldness), my hair isnt perfect because I experimented with other things. For example, my scalp and ketoconazole do not mix, and my hair sheds less and is thicker not taking it. But on the whole, I have maintained most of what I had. I am probably a NW2 now, coming from a Norwood 1 since end 2005. I have lost density and some of my hairline, but at 39 y.o. I still have as much hair, if not more than most of my friends. By all accounts, I'd say this is a huge success. I would probably have more had i kept using finasteride, but I would still be a total mess due to sides. This has been the best solution for me, hands down.

    +

    I believe that my hair stopped falling because zix helped me maintain a healthy scalp. Whether this is a function of reducing DHT or reducing inflammation I cannot say as my science knowledge is effectively non-existent. But the lack of itching to me is an indicator that zix is truly effective. Not to mention, that over the past 11 years I still have most of my hair. I am confident I would be pretty bald, as I used to shed massive amounts of hair, and during the times I was without treatment, I lost a lot of ground.

    I have changed my formulation from Joe's classic Zix, being that I doubled the concentration, and have put in twice the zinc sulfate (I believe that's 4x zinc). Joe has other formulations, which I have tried, but in the end I am sticking to what works for me.

    Joe was quite active on hairlosshelp, but has since stopped. The people on hairlosshelp are vicious, resort to name calling and rip you apart if you deviate from the big 3, it's really quite ridiculous. And the moderator allows this to continue, which I suspect why he has way less posters than here. Anyhow, Joe backed away from the negativity. I couldnt stand it myself.

    Joe was a godsend for me and my hair, and I cant thank him enough.

    I still hope to regain some density, and am holding high hopes for brotzu's lotion, but until then, I believe zix is the best solution for me.

    Quite a few have asked for the formula, of those I know @Quest is using it and is reporting wayyyy less shedding. I have zero financial interest in this as you can go to any vitamin store and buy the ingredients on your own. it costs about $2 per month i estimate.

    I hope for those who are in desperate need of a solution, this helps you. I would be inclined to add it even if you're taking finasteride.

    With respect zinc and B6, as anecdotal evidence, I know there have been a few formulas out there who use both in their mixes, for example i know regenepure and lipogaine both do, as well as some others such as revivogen. Here are it's ingredients, you'll see they use p5p and zinc sulfate.

    +
    SD Alcohol 40, Purified Water, Gamma Linolenic Acid, Linoleic Acid, Alpha Linolenic Acid, Oleic Acid, Saw Palmetto Extract, Ethyl Laurate, Beta Sitosterol, Caffeine, Octyl Gallate, Dodecyl Gallate, Pyridoxal 5- phosphate (Vitamin B6), , Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Procyanidin B2 (from Grape Seed or Apple extract), Azelaic Acid, Zinc Sulfate, Menthol, EDTA, Perfume

    +

    If I were to add anything I may try taking a SPalmetto supplement internally to boost the anti dht. I tend to be constantly tinkering, and havent found the right time or motivation to do so.

    One last thing, zix adds cosmetic density, and gives your follicles a bit of a boost, making your hair look thicker. I find it amazing for styling, as it give a dry natural look while helping to keep your hair in place.

    My formula is in the next post.

    Cheers!

    @worm
     
    #1 worm, Oct 18, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  2. worm

    worm Senior Member My Regimen

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    FORMULA
    ---------

    I have sent this by PM to those who have enquired.


    It's called zix, I got it from a user called Joe on hairlosshelp back in 2005, Ive modified his original formula, basically 3x the zinc, adding ethyl alcohol (which he added to zix 2) and doubling the concentration. I think the ethyl alcohol is absolutely necessary. Joe came out with a couple other versions, but i didnt really like them, so i went back to the original and adapted it over the years.

    +

    I still use original zix, but double the concentration with Ethyl Alcohol 70% (do not get confused with isopropyl alcohol which is not at all the same).

    My formula is

    - about 15 mls ethyl alcohol
    - 2 x 220 mgs of zinc sulfate - 2 x https://www.amazon.com/PlusPharma-Z...8&qid=1469108018&sr=1-1&keywords=zinc sulfate (I NOW USE 3x Zincs have much better results)
    - 150 mgs of b6 p5p is use the brand pure encapsulations, you can find it on amazon
    - 45 mls distilled water (must be DISTILLED NOT filtered or ionized or any of that)

    This fits in a 2 oz minoxidil bottle basically.

    I apply 1-2 mls twice a day.

    Ive dabbled a bit with different brands of vits, but have had one bad experience with a different b6 and started shedding, not to mention the tabs make my hair easier to style. Otherwise I was using a different zinc until they discontinued it, and found this new one that works.

    One quick thing, I had majorly itchy and inflamed scalp from when i started losing my hair at 19 yo. I think that contributed to my loss, and as a result think i responded well to zix because it reduced the inflammation big time. Recently I noticed more shedding when I ran out of ethyl alcohol. While I didnt have the itch, it was still shedding about 50 hairs in the shower compared to 25-30. I bought some more ethyl alcohol a few days after, and the shedding has come back down to 25-30. So simultaneously i think it definitely helps prevent dht in the scalp.

    ++

    Also, if you search google - worm + zix - you'll see I posted a lot about it in hairlosshelp years back (my history and formula etc).

    Also if you search zix + hair - you will see the original website that created the mix. I made mine more concentrated and added more zinc.

    BTW it helps with giving your hair a follicle boost and makes it feel and look cosmetically thicker.

    +

    Here are a couple links

    http://hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=59841

    http://advinfoprod.com/hair_formulas_7.htm

    http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/...d=45103&STARTPAGE=2&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

    And another link -

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3207614

    I tried adding Azelaic, but it didnt do anything. That said, it may have not worked due to a vitamin i was taking - which ive since dropped and my shedding decreased. I may try again in a few weeks.

    Also, be careful if you're using it with minoxidil. Joe says not to do so, however heard of some who do and have had great success.

    Please post your experiences here.

    BTW
    ----

    I try to wash my hair daily, I massage my scalp with original H&S (no conditioner) and sometimes mix it with Klorane (with Quinine and b6), and let that soak into my scalp for about 5 mins. Combined they have zinc and b6 in them. Afterwards my scalp feels loose and relaxed. I also believe it helps rid the scalp of dht containing sebum, at least for a few hours, but that's just an idea.
     
    #2 worm, Oct 18, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  3. Massive

    Massive Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Thank you so much , great stuff !

    I'll give zix a try and use it when I'm not applying minoxidil.
     
  4. worm

    worm Senior Member My Regimen

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    This might sound ridiculous, but I think hairloss can cause mental illness due to all the worry, stress, feelings of self doubt that propped up during this process. I just hope this helps people out, and helps avoid much of the wasted time I lost researching and feeling shitty about male pattern baldness.

    I dont think it will regrow any large amounts of hair, but it will help recover lost ground. Joe thinks there is a 2 year window that can be recovered.

    Lastly, there are a few who have reported seriously enhanced gains while combining the two applying within 5 mins. Personally I would give it a shot and see how it goes for a week or two. I tend to believe you can combine them.

    Read these posts

    - See Shark Sandwich

    http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=58856

    - See JWM July 28

    https://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums...d=59841&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

    http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=72522
     
    #4 worm, Oct 18, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  5. Massive

    Massive Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Your timimg couldn't have been better, once again thank you so much !

    I've read some of your posts regarding zix on HLH recently, which really motivated me to give it a try as I read that people that finasteride doesn't do them much good sometimes turn to zix as a last resort.
    I honestly didn't wanna bother you asking for details about your formula and all that... But you ended up posting what I needed amd what I'm sure will be very informative for others as well.

    I got some reading to do now, and some online shopping with redirect shipping to get some of the stuff over here.

    I'll start updating progress soon enough :)
     
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  6. worm

    worm Senior Member My Regimen

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    yeah check out joe's site, he's got some good info on there. read the formulas and he's got some good abstracts.

    I personally dont think the super zix is an improvement, I actually started shedding. Personally I find my modified formula works best for me.
     
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  7. deraj

    deraj Member

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    Given your recipe is tailored to you, do you think it would be more sensible for a beginner to start with the basic formulation of zix, and then tweak to what they see fit? I've tried ethyl alcohol in a few formulations of my own and it seems to irritate my scalp more.
     
  8. sunchyme1

    sunchyme1 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Hey worm I've come from hairlosshelp too. It's so dead there now. I always wondered why.

    Regarding zix do you think taking breaks from it would help you in the long run so your body doesn't get used to it. Maybe cycling different topicals? So for example using zix for a while, then maybe something like spironolactone or fluridil, then going back.
     
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  9. worm

    worm Senior Member My Regimen

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    @sunchyme1 Hairlosshelp is horrible. It's so full of negativity and bullying over nothing, or at least it was when people still used it. I had posted a bit about my experience with zix, and got dragged over the coals as a moron for inventing sides, and being weak and stupid for I was dooming my hair by not sticking it out on finasteride. There was no point in pushing back, as it was relentless. Ive seen people get called all sorts of things if they say finasteride doesnt agree with them, ive reported it to Farrel, but at times he jumps in and enables it. Anyhow, this site is 10000x more civilized, people are really decent here.

    I have not stopped zix at any time, except for the very odd time i run out of an ingredient. The itching returns after 2 days.

    Cheers!
     
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  10. bunchies

    bunchies Member

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    Thank you for sharing this information worm!

    My hairloss isn't that terrible yet so i'm not on treatments yet. I'm scared of minoxidil eating up my hairline and not hopeless enough to put finasteride in my body.

    I still have a few questions:

    * Does the alcohol make any difference? I saw the first recipe Joe made was with distilled water only.
    * Is there any shedding phase like the other hairloss products and how long does it generally take to see any diffirence?
    * Does it matter if you use tablets or capsules? Joe said you had to use B6 capsules but you are obviously using tablets.
    * Do u need to leave the sediment when making the mixture or do u just shake it up again? I did not fully understand that part on his site.

    cheers!
     
  11. worm

    worm Senior Member My Regimen

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    @bunchies

    I would try zix as the first treatment for hair loss, before anything else. Your scalp does not become dependent on it, and you will not experience any sheds for starting or stopping it.

    Do you have currently experience any shedding, or increased shedding from pre Androgenetic Alopecia? I ask because this in my opinion is the best way to see if zix is working for you. Your shedding goes down significantly when you're on zix. If you dont have lots of shedding, it could well be that it's working, except it's harder to notice any change, if you arent showing any signs of Androgenetic Alopecia to begin with the exception of a maturing hairline.

    To answer your questions

    1 - I think the ethyl alcohol most definitely helps absorption, you can use it without, but i find it much more effective with the alcohol.

    2- no, it simply decreases shedding. Thats the main thing everyone reports and pretty quickly (w/in 1-2 weeks). If you quit, I believe you will simply go back to shedding what you used to shed pre zix. In other words i think zix simply pauses your hairloss, or at the very least slows it down to a snails pace.

    3 - I like the tablets, because that was his original formulation and im used to it, and it adds additional cosmetic thickness. I am not convinced all B6's (P5P) are the same, and this works for me. Will it work with capsules? I would think yes, just make sure you have a good quality brand. If you have thinned and can see your scalp easily, it may in fact be better to use the capsules as they will have less sediment.

    4 - I dissolve the crushed sediment in alcohol for a few hours before adding distilled water when im mixing it together. Thereafter I simply shake the bottle prior to getting my dropper in there for applications. So some sediment ends up on your scalp. I let it dry, then brush it out. I do not however remove the sediment at any point from the bottle.

    I mentioned it before, I find it adds volume, cosmetic thickness to your hair, and makes it great for styling.

    Hope that helps.
     
  12. bunchies

    bunchies Member

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    I do not experience any crazy shedding or constant itch as you have and many others on this forum. My hairline started to mature at age 18 and now is progressing a bit further at the temples. I probably also lost some density over the years, but my hair at 18 was crazy thick. I would say i'm a Norwood 2 at age 27. I still have vellus hairs where my Norwood 1 hairline was accompanied by some long hairs.

    Have you tried adding some peppermint oil to your mixture? I've seen a few threads here where people add it to their regimen and they think it helps.

    Thank you for answering my questions
     
  13. buckthorn

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    wonder if you could dissolve it in stemoxydine (neogenic)... perhaps killing two birds with one stone? idk.. whatcha think
     
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  14. worm

    worm Senior Member My Regimen

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    don't know what either of those will do. I have noticed over the 11 years ive been on it, when i add things to it, i find generally the effectiveness is greatly diminished, to the point i usually start shedding.

    I would start with the straight up version for a couple months. If you want to add other ingredients please do so, and if you find it helps or you start shedding, i guess you can then tell what that addition does in the end.

    @bunchies it's hard for me to comment on your situation. It sounds like you still have lots of hair, and maybe you're just experiencing a mature head of hair. Im not sure if zix will help, always worth a try, but i think you'll find it hard to evaluate its effectiveness since you seem to be losing super slowly already.
     
  15. WMQ

    WMQ Established Member My Regimen

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    Zix made my scalp feel absolutely amazing even at original strength (ethanol version). But I get instant headache accompanied by palpitation, chest discomfort, and fatigue.

    I did a quick search and found quite a few reports of zix causing headache.

    Not to complain or anything since I'm super sensitive and get similar reaction from literally every topical I used except minoxidil (has nothing to do with hormone) and tricomin (which did nothing at all). Seems like I have absurdly high systemic absorption rate.

    Some of the sides I got from zix might be linked to B6 (google b6 overdose). Some would argue that even if you take a whole pill of b6 daily you wouldn't be anywhere near overdosing, but my guess is that a lot of the drug never gets into your body via the oral route. The yellowish urine from oral b6 is a good evidence. While topical w/ high systemic absorption is another story (imagine taking a intravenous injection of b6 as compared to oral administration. Well not a good example but you get it).

    My scalp simply feels like a sieve where every topical just drops down into the bloodstream.

    Again this is just to inform you guys with my personal experience. And you should definitely try it if you have a bad scalp since it does seem to work.
     
  16. sunchyme1

    sunchyme1 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Interesting I've never seen any reports of sides with zix. I thought this topical was meant to be side free. Fucking hair loss sucks man
     
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  17. sunchyme1

    sunchyme1 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Ok cheers man.

    I guess I don't go on there that much to see all the bullshit on hlh. Just seems very dead to me now so I come here more often.

    I got fucking horrific sides with finasteride (and great results) so it must be frustrating to get all that bs from guys. I only listened to a few guys there I respect who really understand the science of it all and not some morons just spewing the same shit from bs studies they've looked up/been quoted.
     
  18. stachu

    stachu Experienced Member My Regimen

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  19. worm

    worm Senior Member My Regimen

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    Yeah, I get that with all meds and most topicals. Believe it or not Nizoral gives me a headache and I feel spaced out. I never did chalk up any sides to zix though. There is very little b6 in zix, there is the equivalent of 7 days of b6, where a bottle of zix should last you almost 30.

    Anyhow I'm not disputing your sides, have u tried diluting it?
     
  20. bunchies

    bunchies Member

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    #20 bunchies, Oct 24, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016

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