minoxidil foam that includes ketoconazole, zinc, and retinol

[Captain Hook]

@Captain Hook, I wouldn't say Azaleic Acid is completely useless though, apparently it helps open pores and cleans the scalp

I never said it was completely useless, I said it has no in vivo evidence as an antiandrogen.

In theory azelaic acid should work to enhance minoxidil absorption like tretinoin does but there are no studies proving this either and hence if one wants to be sure they are enhancing absorption of minoxidil they should use tretinoin (Retin-A) instead (check the studies I posted regarding tretinoin in earlier posts in this thread)

It's been proven to work for mild to moderate acne and even then there are vastly better acne treatments that I'd recommend over azelaic acid.

 

[labellavita1985]

Hey guys,

I see you haven't been on this thread in a few days, so I hope you don't mind if I bring it back for a second.

Hairlifted,

do you mind providing some additional details about your use of adenosine containing products? How long have you been on them? Any thoughts so far? Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Are you sure that it hasn't contributed to your shedding? After all, it sounds like you are using adenosine and minoxidil simultaneously, so you couldn't really be sure if the shed you're experiencing is only being generated by the minoxidil, without adenosine being a factor at all, right? I ask because I am trying to avoid an initial shed as much as possible. This may make more sense to you if I explain that I am a female, have long hair, and if I use a product that induces a pretty significant shed, it will take YEARS for me to recover from it, because my hair is long. You guys are lucky that you don't have to worry about this (presuming you keep your hair short, of course.) Also, I may not have Androgenetic Alopecia, and I may in fact only be suffering from a temporary hair loss/telogen effluvium type situation as there have been quite a few triggers in my life over the last 6 months-1 year (vitamin/mineral deficiency, excessive weight loss, etc.) I don't really have any hair loss in my family, certainly no female Androgenetic Alopecia, and am (only?) 30 as of last week (lol,) so I'm really trying to remain optimistic that I don't, in fact, have Androgenetic Alopecia.

Captain Hook,

can't believe you're only 21! You sound soo intelligent and mature. Since you provided me with that information on latanoprost, bimatoprost, Adenosine, etc, some time ago, I've been doing so much research and trying to decide on a course of treatment. At first I thought I'd start with stemoxydine, Folligen (1-2x/week,) and miconozole nitrate (probably also 1-2x/week.) However, today I found some bimatoprost products online that are much more affordable than I originally thought bimatoprost would be, but still very expensive for frequent and continual use. I want to try Folligen for sure, and the miconozole, and am thinking about also using bimatoprost now. The product I found is .03% bimatoprost; I'm now just trying to figure out how much I would have to use, by that I mean, if I were to use 1 ML, as many people do with minoxidil, would bimatoprost grow/thicken hair where it hasn't been applied directly, the way minoxidil does? I mean, I know it is said that minoxidil is not absorbed systemically, but then how can it grow hair on the scalp where it hasn't been applied, or the face?

1 ML is obviously not going to be enough to cover the whole scalp. If more than 1 ML is needed to produce positive changes with bimatoprost, that makes it economically inaccessible to me. Even with the 1 ML, I'd probably only be using every other night or so.

Do you guys have any thoughts on miconozole? I am really only interested in growth stimulants, as my doctors and I doubt that my hair loss is being caused by DHT, so anti androgens are not the best course of treatment for me right now.

So basically, it's down to stemoxydine, copper peptide products, bimatoprost, and miconozole nitrate. I'd like to just stick with three, but I suppose I could use all of them if I think there may be more benefit than just using three.

Sorry to hijack the thread again, and please forgive me if the products I'm asking about are, in your opinion, just scams/ineffective, and you are put in a position to explain to me (as you may have to many others,) that I would be wasting my time. As I said, I've done a lot of research, mostly on people's personal experiences with these products, and I understand they are all controversial, as most hair loss products seem to be.

 

[hairlifted]

Hi Labellavita, you pose a good point about the potential of adenosine causing a shed instead of minoxidil. I do believe its the minoxidil, but also keep in mind I have long hair for a guy and that makes it seem more pronounced, no shedding on my clothes or pillow, just in the shower, so it really could be nothing. The Adenovital spray I started before I ever tried minoxidil and I never noticed any increased shedding or anything, and it could just be after adding minoxidil I just had some confirmation bias about hairs in the shower drain. So I understand your concern about long hair and recovery, although I'd guess yours is longer than mine, if I pull my bangs down in front of my face (typically wear my hair brushed back), they go all the way down to my chin, so its pretty long.

Considering that I have never gorwn it out to this length I'm thinking there's barely any additional shedding going on that can't be attributed to having longer hair. I'm not sure about bimatoprost or miconozole, but I would guess any growth stimulant would have the potential to have shedding as a side effect considering the modulation on the hair growth and rest cycle, but there's no use worrying I suppose unless you see a drastic shed. I don't have any experience with those two so I can't help you out there, hopefully Captain Hook has some personal experience about those.

Keep in mind that when I was saying shed in my previous posts in this thread, I just meant mainly in the shower drain hair catcher device I have. I still have very nice hair, especially for a guy, just some temple recession. From what I understand, adenosine works just as well as women's rogaine from one of the studies posted about adenosine, so maybe it would be good for you? If you are worried about an adenosine topical that you leave on, perhaps adding an adenosine containing shampoo might help augment the treatments you are thinking of trying? The two brands I know and have used are Shisheido's Adenovital shampoo, and the one I'm currently using called Adenosil. The Adenosil is VERY mild, it doesn't lather even the slightest bit, so it's not a harsh type of shampoo. Couldn't hurt to try something like that I suppose.

 

[Captain Hook]

Captain Hook,

can't believe you're only 21! You sound soo intelligent and mature. Since you provided me with that information on latanoprost, bimatoprost, Adenosine, etc, some time ago, I've been doing so much research and trying to decide on a course of treatment. At first I thought I'd start with stemoxydine, Folligen (1-2x/week,) and miconozole nitrate (probably also 1-2x/week.) However, today I found some bimatoprost products online that are much more affordable than I originally thought bimatoprost would be, but still very expensive for frequent and continual use. I want to try Folligen for sure, and the miconozole, and am thinking about also using bimatoprost now. The product I found is .03% bimatoprost; I'm now just trying to figure out how much I would have to use, by that I mean, if I were to use 1 ML, as many people do with minoxidil, would bimatoprost grow/thicken hair where it hasn't been applied directly, the way minoxidil does? I mean, I know it is said that minoxidil is not absorbed systemically, but then how can it grow hair on the scalp where it hasn't been applied, or the face?

1 ML is obviously not going to be enough to cover the whole scalp. If more than 1 ML is needed to produce positive changes with bimatoprost, that makes it economically inaccessible to me. Even with the 1 ML, I'd probably only be using every other night or so.

Do you guys have any thoughts on miconozole? I am really only interested in growth stimulants, as my doctors and I doubt that my hair loss is being caused by DHT, so anti androgens are not the best course of treatment for me right now.

So basically, it's down to stemoxydine, copper peptide products, bimatoprost, and miconozole nitrate. I'd like to just stick with three, but I suppose I could use all of them if I think there may be more benefit than just using three.

Sorry to hijack the thread again, and please forgive me if the products I'm asking about are, in your opinion, just scams/ineffective, and you are put in a position to explain to me (as you may have to many others,) that I would be wasting my time. As I said, I've done a lot of research, mostly on people's personal experiences with these products, and I understand they are all controversial, as most hair loss products seem to be.

Firstly, thank you so much for the kind words, there's a lot of negativity on this forum and you've been nothing but polite to me, I really appreciate it, you're a peach!

To answer your questions, I actually have some first hand experience with latanoprost so I would assume what I say would be applicable to bimatoprost too. I've been prescribed it for ocular hypertension in the left eye, so I have my right eye as a sort of benchmark to compare. That being said, the fact that I only use one drop in the left eye once a day (and have been doing so for 10 years) I've noticed the eyelashes on my left eye are much thicker and longer and keep in mind this is without direct application, this is just local absorption around the ocular orbit, I'm sure you'll see much better results with bimatoprost applied directly. So with that being said I'd say yes, bimatoprost has the propensity to grow/thicken hair where it hasn't been applied directly.

As for miconazole, it's a bit of an enigma. The only study relating it to hair loss is this one

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3087363

And as you can see it's not a close relation, it just states that miconazole lowers PGE2, which would make sense since others say it increases PGE1 (they are both beneficial for hair growth but they are antagonistic to each other). There are however no studies proving that miconazole increases PGE1 so all we have are anecdotal reports of some people who have had regrowth from it. I personally do not recommend it simply because of the lack of studies done on it. If you want more options for growth stimulation, topically applied PGE2 is one option, it's very expensive though and I'd say castor oil is surprisingly a cheap alternative option (it contains 90% ricinoleic acid, which is molecularly similar to PGE2 and administration of castor oil is used to induce labour, similar to PGE2, because it activates 2 out of the 4 EP prostanoid receptors, EP3 and EP4, with about one order of magnitude less potency than PGE2 itself)

Study showing the effectiveness of ricinoleic acid: http://www.pnas.org/content/109/23/9179.full.pdf

That being said, how effective castor oil actually is is anyone's guess. Probably the most noteworthy anecdotal report is the user "swisstemples", he has some photos on his blog (search swisstemples blogspot, I'm sure the moderators don't want me promoting him directly) that shows some very impressive regrowth and 1 mL oral castor oil along with topical castor oil is part of his regimen. He may have been banned here for unwanted behaviour, but we'd be fools to sideline and ignore him. I know I'm certainly going to add it to my regimen perhaps a month after implementing S5 Bedtime Cream, it's 10 AUD for a 473 mL bottle, at 1 mL orally per day, that will last me well over a year, I figure I don't have much to lose.

There is some tentative in vitro evidence for copper peptides but it's worth mentioning that you should make sure you do your research and ensure that the formula you're using contains a proper concentration that would be effective. (Perhaps someone with more experience on this can chime in?) (Said evidence: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17703734)

Another treatment that's pretty much up in the air and unheard of, something I am going to be personally trialling in the coming months, is selenium disulphide. There are a few studies showing its effect on prostaglandins, specifically its ability to increase PGE2 and inhibit PGD2 synthase (the enzyme that is responsible for the synthesis of harmful PGD2. Androgens like DHT lead to an abnormal amount of PGD2 in the scalp, hence the hype around Kythera's setipiprant, a novel PGD2 receptor antagonist). As to why no one has trialled something like Selsun Blue (1% selenium disulphide shampoo) is anyone's guess, it's cheap and to be honest it at least has some tentative evidence pointing to the fact that it could work, I've seen people on this forum use far less supported compounds and snake oils without any evidence to back them. In fact, go on Wikipedia and search for the Prostaglandin D2 synthase page, go to the reference section on the bottom, click the section that says prostanoid signalling and take a look what is listed under enzyme inhibitors: PGD2 synthase. You'll see the elusive selenium disulphide. Selsun Blue is like, 7 AUD for a 200 mL bottle, using 5 mL twice weekly would last me about 5 months, again, I don't have much to lose by using it.

References: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9344235 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10389108

I can't speak much for stemoxydine either, there is some evidence it helps via stimulation of important growth factors for hair (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3500072/) but that's about it.

Hope that helps!

 

[hairlifted]

I wouldn't have guessed you were 21 either based on your posts CH, they come across as very mature & intelligent so I was surprised when I read that. I've always been that way too but for some reason didn't picture you as 21 haha

 

[Captain Hook]

I wouldn't have guessed you were 21 either based on your posts CH, they come across as very mature & intelligent so I was surprised when I read that. I've always been that way too but for some reason didn't picture you as 21 haha

Thanks mate! I appreciate the sentiment Likewise unto you, I was quite impressed with your adenosine shampoo finding, I had no idea they even existed.

 

[labellavita1985]

Hey guys,

Thanks so much to both of you for your responses. I really appreciate all the information you have provided.

So, I was so close to making an order for bimatoprost tonight, with the intention of using 1 ML once a day, but then I read some things about how it can age skin. I've read reports of fat loss in the face. Do you guys have any thoughts/experiences on this?

The copper peptide product I'm going to be ordering is Folligen. I know there's a big controversy on whether Folligen is better or Tricomin is better, but I think I've found enough to determine that Folligen might be the better of the two.

Any thoughts on Proxiphen?

Btw, Wolf Pack, I agree with what you were saying about ketocoanzole 2% vs. 1%, the only problem is, I hate how Nizoral 2% makes my hair look and feel.

I will be looking into the selenium; I did a quick google search and did not find much on topical PGE-2 products. I'm definitely going to be starting the Miconozole, even though I don't really understand how it works if it just affects the "balance" of PGE1 and PGE2, unless one of them is much better for growing hair. I also haven't been able to find much reported success with castor oil.

It sucks because I really had my hopes up with the bimatoprost. I really do think it can grow/thicken hair. I was more than willing to spend $140 a month on it, I just can't take the risk of negative side effects on my skin. Between the miconozole, stemoxydine, copper peptides and bimatoprost I really think the bimatoprost is the most promising.

 

[Captain Hook]

Considering I've used latanoprost for over 10 years now, the only side effects I've noticed are darkening of the iris (my left eye is no longer the greyish green colour that my right eye is, it's now a dark amber), darkening of the eyelashes, thickening of the eyelashes, eyelash growth and slight darkening around the ocular orbit.

That last side effect could easily be mistaken for ageing skin at first glance when it is in fact not, it is a colour difference (and a very slight one, when I ask others, they don't notice it, not even my ophthalmologists notice it, it seems to be just me) that has nothing to do with collagen balance in the skin, it's simply just pigmentation. I'm certain the same goes for bimatoprost as the Latisse package insert only mentions darkening around the orbit and eyelid area as well.

As for Proxiphen, it just seems like it's a combination minoxidil+copper peptides+spironolactone+phenytoin formulation, as to why the latter ingredient was added is anyone's guess, I've never heard of it being used for Androgenetic Alopecia. At $100 per month it's not cheap either and my personal recommendation would be to steer clear of it. Since you're already on oral spironolactone, I would think topical would be unnecessary and you could buy minoxidil and copper peptides separately which would be much cheaper than Proxiphen. In short, save your money and spend it on treatments that have proven, marked effectiveness.

Another tip, I use 2% Nizoral and when I first started using it I never followed up with a conditioner, it made my hair look very dry. Now I'll just use a moisturising conditioner and leave it on for 2-3 minutes and I have no such problem, the dryness and 'limp' look to my hair is a thing of the past and is completely ameliorated by the conditioner.

 

[labellavita1985]

Thanks again for the feedback, Wolf Pack. Our interaction on this forum is very valuable to me and I really appreciate your presence here.

I just wonder if the darkening would be more severe in my case because I would be using 1 ML per day.

I'm trying to remain optimistic about my hair, and am hoping that even if my hair loss isn't androgen related, the birth control pill and the Spironolactone will have a positive effect on my hair, by regulating my hormones and increasing estrogen levels (it is thought that estrogen is good for the hair, as I'm sure you know.)

I've also been aggressively supplementing iron, and even though there are some people who have their doubts about iron deficiency contributing to hair loss, it is so widely reported by doctors/researchers/other professionals that I think there's something to it. Also, my iron wasn't just somewhat deficient, it was very, significantly deficient at 6.7, and I've read that to support hair growth optimally it should be >80.

I'm hoping that it's a good sign that my shed seems to be decreasing, very gradually, these days I usually count 20 or so hairs in the mornings when I comb my hair (without washing,) probably followed by another 20-30 throughout the day. When I first became aware of my hair loss, I remember counting when washing once and between the shower and combing alone I lost 130 hairs. Also, I think I'm seeing regrowth.

I'm so glad to have the opportunity to interact with other hair loss sufferers on forums such as these. Even though the cause/nature of our hair loss may be different, what makes the interactions so invaluable to me is the fact that hair loss is so seemingly out of our control, which makes it so frustrating. I know that for me, hair loss has significantly deteriorated the quality of my life in the last few months; I never realized how happy I was before this happened. If my hair makes a comeback, I will never take it for granted again. This being said, I'm truly grateful for every single hair on my head, since it could be much worse.

I've read that miniaturized hairs do not stand upright as my growth seems to be in the pictures, so this is giving me some more hope. I feel like I should be seeing much more regrowth if I'm to regain all of the hair I lost though, but I also know I need to be patient. Not sure what is going on at the temples, I think that's regrowth as I don't really remember it being there a few months ago in the midst of active shedding. Still, my shed fluctuates so I still wash/comb/etc with baited breath.

 

[Captain Hook]

No worries, I'm delighted you think so, likewise!

From what I've read, the beneficial pigmentation-related side effects (eyelash darkening) slowly subside to baseline after discontinuing Latisse. It would in theory make sense that any darkening of the skin around the eyelid and orbit should reverse as well, however severe it may be. While it is entirely up to you to decide whether you want to take the risk or not, it doesn't seem like something that would be permanent.

I definitely agree with you on the matter of iron deficiency and hair loss. One of my friends was diagnosed with iron deficiency and her hair was coming out in clumps, after about 6 months on iron supplements prescribed by her GP, she noticed complete cessation of hair loss and started to see some regrowth. I wouldn't listen to anyone doubting this phenomenon, it's clinically proven that certain mineral deficiencies can cause hair loss on their own, it's just that since hair loss in men is 90% of the time caused by Androgenetic Alopecia, many people on this forum tend to dismiss said fact.

That being said, that actually was my first order of business in figuring out if I had Androgenetic Alopecia or not. Iron studies were one of the various blood tests that I talked about in My Story thread that I asked my GP to perform to rule out other causes of hair loss. So good on you for addressing a very important angle when it comes to alopecia.

I definitely resonate with your feelings, I feel like I took my hair for granted back when I was 17, never again! If we can experience regrowth it really would be a humbling lesson for us all I suppose, I definitely know my hair loss could be much worse and I have no right to complain at all considering I'm at such a low Norwood. I think the key is to be patient, too many of us expect miracle results in even a month or two when in reality it can take 1-2 years to see optimal results after starting a new treatment.

Judging by your pictures, had I just saw you on the street or talked to you in person, I wouldn't be able to tell you have hair loss or thinning at all. I'm certain the contraceptive pill and spironolactone will only help too, 17-beta-estradiol, a potent estrogen, has been shown to reverse Androgenetic Alopecia even in men in some cases so I have no doubt that increasing your estrogen levels will have a positive effect on your hair. Keep us posted!

 

[labellavita1985]

Wolf Pack -

Did your friend get all of her hair back?

And do you think I will have to use bimatoprost forever? And if I do, do you think 3x/week application should be sufficient to maintain results?

I'm pulling the trigger and ordering stemoxydine, bimatoprost, and Folligen today and picking up some Viviscal and Monistat (lol) at the store later.

Lastly, I use tretinoin on my face every night. There was a study (German, I believe) that concluded that tretinoin can affect the cycles of hair, I think by making anagen hairs enter catagen prematurely. Do you think there's any truth to this? I know many hair loss sufferers use tretinoin with minoxidil, and there are minoxidil preparations that already include tretinoin/retinol, so it seems unlikely. I've done a lot of searching and come up just with that one study.

 

[Captain Hook]

To the best of my knowledge, yes, she made a full recovery and her hair looks the same as when it did before the bout of iron deficiency (it was caused by a poorly planned vegan diet that she had switched to).

I can't give you a conclusive answer as to if you have to use bimatoprost forever, to the best of my knowledge new hairs grown on the scalp via PGE2 related pathways should be maintained by antiandrogens, swisstemples has mentioned this as well on his ask.fm question site.

At the same time what I've read about Latisse is that eyelashes at least will slowly return to their baseline state. In addition I have read of anecdotal reports that hair regrown via miconazole (PGE1 pathway supposedly) will shed once the drug is discontinued (this may be due to the fact that miconazole is present as miconazole nitrate in vaginal creams. Nitrates have a mechanism of action similar to minoxidil, which is vasodilation, hence the shed. Although this is just a theory)

As for tretinoin, it's definitely a drug that requires a lot of finesse in its usage. That study is certainly correct, too high of a concentration or too frequent use of tretinoin applied to the scalp can and will cause premature catagen induction. That being said, studies with infrequent use and/or low concentrations (0.025% and below usually) have shown benefits in terms of hair growth potential. I wouldn't be too worried if you're only applying it on your face though but keep an eye on it regardless!

Study in question: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3771854

 

[Captain Hook]

Captain, I can't get Retin-A in my country but I can get a doctors prescription for the pharmacy custom made tretionin but I don't know how much tretionin should it contain? 0,025 % or 0,01 %? Also in a form of a cream or gel? I don't want to burn my skin with too much of it but at the same time I want it to work so I'm not sure what's the proper does, I've read some stories where people had their layer of skin peeled off from too much/too strong tretionin.

Since I have no firsthand experience with tretinoin, I cannot personally recommend it. I can tell you this however, from what I've read from anecdotal reports, it's best to start at the lowest concentration and use it infrequently to see if your scalp can tolerate it.

Perhaps 0.01% tretinoin used once weekly to start. You can titrate up to twice weekly and then if you can tolerate that I wouldn't advise going higher than 0.025% twice weekly. It's really quite a mercurial drug and utmost caution must be exercised as it wasn't developed for topical application to the scalp.

As for the dosage form, if you have sensitive skin, go for the cream as it contains an emollient which can be kinder to your skin, if you don't and want to ensure better penetration, go for the gel. I'm partial to gels myself.

 

[labellavita1985]

Thanks, Wolf Pack.

I will be reducing my use of tretinoin, 0.1% to every other day, so as not to take my chances with any unwanted side effects. I started with 0.025 in May, then began using 0.05 in July, and just last week started using 0.1, so it has been very gradual. I honestly have not noticed any peeling/flaking/redness, even though I use hydroquinone, Clindamycin, Benzoyl Peroxide, and Glycolic Acid as well (not at the same time though.) Just in case anyone is interested in my experience. I'm only applying to my face. My experience could be very different from other peoples' though, as I don't have sensitive skin at all. I use a tiny amount, pea size, and always mix it with something before applying to my face. Usually moisturizer. So, Vincent, I definitely recommend starting out with the lowest concentration, and possibly not ever increasing to more than 0.025, since you will be applying to such a large area, and you are concerned about your hair, and there has been at least one study linking use of tretinoin to hair loss. I think it's a fine balance. It does make sense to me though, that tretinoin increases absorption of minoxidil. I think the combination should work better than minoxidil alone.

I have a question about shedding shorter hairs. Throughout my experience with hair loss, I've noticed that I shed a lot of hairs from all varying lengths. In fact, I think possibly more than 50% of hairs that are shed are not the full length of my hair. I have MASSIVE breakage from chemical processing, a dermatologist PA I saw even commented that the chemical processing damage is "severe," (her words,) so I don't know if the short shed hairs are just hairs that have broken off, but I don't think they all are because they appear to be tapered, and hairs that are broken should have blunt ends, right? Anyway, I'm wondering how "normal" it is to shed short hairs. To me it indicates a compromised anagen phase, but I'm not sure, because on another forum someone said even people with no hair loss shed shorter hairs. The hairs do not appear miniaturized, just short, usually starting at around 3 inches, all the way up to the length of my hair, although I've found a few that were <2. Anybody have any ideas as to what this might mean? I really think that it CAN'T be a good thing. Shed is down, but shed includes tons of short hairs.

I wonder if my current use of oral contraceptives and Spironolactone, or even maybe iron supplementing could be a factor. I think I'm losing more shorter hairs now than when I was in the midst of a high shed. Is it possible that shedding shorter hairs is an indication of recovery, either from Telogen Effluvium or beginning Androgenetic Alopecia?

I have attached some pictures of the chemical processing damage. As you can see, it's extensive. You can tell from the pictures that it's only in the bleached lengths of my hair, and not at the root/new growth. I have not processed it at all for about 7 months. I just hate my hair so much right now. :x Then again, I'm grateful for what I do have.

Oh, and really quickly, what is your opinion on Viviscal?

Lastly, this is kind of a silly question but do you think there would be any benefit to applying Folligen to my face? It should help improve the appearance of skin, right, if it does what copper peptide research concluded?

 

[Captain Hook]

I want to say that the shedding of short hairs is just a result of breakage due to chemical processing. Nearly every dermatologist I've been to has always told me to resist the urge to go platinum blonde simply to avoid damaging my hair. As your hair grows out and you get haircuts, the damaged hair will be cut away and you shouldn't notice it anymore. I don't think it's at all related to your current regimen. Iron overload can cause hair loss but if you have only recently been diagnosed with iron deficiency, it takes quite a few months for your iron stores to return to normal levels, I assume your GP is performing iron studies at certain intervals and should take you off the iron supplements when necessary, no?

Copper peptides should in theory be good for collagen synthesis in the skin. I'd use a product intended for it though, they do sell copper peptide skin serums which you could try. Folligen was designed for use on the scalp and hence it may have some ingredients that may disagree with your facial skin (think applying hairspray to your face).

Viviscal, to the best of my knowledge, is just a hair vitamin complex, no? I looked up the ingredients and it seems like it's a lacklustre one too. You'd be better off with just a normal women's multivitamin like Centrum or even Hairfinity vitamins if you want something with MSM in it. These support healthy hair growth but they will do nothing to stimulate new growth or address Androgenetic Alopecia or any other cause of hair loss.

Personal recommendation though, I'd just continue using tretinoin on your face instead of attempting the use of copper peptides. You can by all means give it a go but this advert always reminds me of why I definitely will be implementing tretinoin into my skincare routine in the near future (my complexion looks okay from ~1 metre away but if you were to get close to me you could see faint freckles and an overall uneven complexion)

http://www.the-narcissist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/retin-a-week-3.jpg

 

[Ignitemyhair]

seems like a pretty mixture of compounds, but like said might be not up to a certain grade which is honestly recommended.

 

[hairlifted]

Ok guys, wanna chime in here and say I got my 3 pack of Polaris NR-10 lotion. Kinda hard to apply to longer hair, but since I'm only using it on my hairline and the back of head, it's not too bad. A plus side is there has been NO itching whatsoever, and this has 16% minoxidil in it versus the 5% foam I was using the OP of this post. It's also got a good vitamin complex and different peptides for (assuming) thickness. I also grabbed DS Lab's Revita Thickening Hair Cream, which I have to admit has some quite nice ingredients in it for a styling product. Will post about that in my adenosine thread.

And Captain Hook - that advert is indeed interesting. The NR-10 has elastin and collagen in it so hopefully no minoxidil facial effects, but I moisturize with cerave lotion twice daily after using their facial cleanser. My skin still looks pretty bad somedays, and I may end up adding that retin-a for skincare.

 

[warner8]

unless you test it yourself, no way to no for sure its 16% minoxidil. could all be a hoax. if you want 16% get it made by a compound pharmacist, otherwise you don't know what your are putting in your hair.

Ok guys, wanna chime in here and say I got my 3 pack of Polaris NR-10 lotion. Kinda hard to apply to longer hair, but since I'm only using it on my hairline and the back of head, it's not too bad. A plus side is there has been NO itching whatsoever, and this has 16% minoxidil in it versus the 5% foam I was using the OP of this post. It's also got a good vitamin complex and different peptides for (assuming) thickness. I also grabbed DS Lab's Revita Thickening Hair Cream, which I have to admit has some quite nice ingredients in it for a styling product. Will post about that in my adenosine thread.

And Captain Hook - that advert is indeed interesting. The NR-10 has elastin and collagen in it so hopefully no minoxidil facial effects, but I moisturize with cerave lotion twice daily after using their facial cleanser. My skin still looks pretty bad somedays, and I may end up adding that retin-a for skincare.

 

[Captain Hook]

unless you test it yourself, no way to no for sure its 16% minoxidil. could all be a hoax. if you want 16% get it made by a compound pharmacist, otherwise you don't know what your are putting in your hair.

I second this, same reasoning as with RegenePure DR, they both aren't pharmaceutical grade products and therefore have no regulatory body ensuring standardised concentrations. Stick with Regaine/Rogaine or generic minoxidil 5%.

 

[Captain Hook]

Captain Hook, seeing you're a Nizoral user I wanted to ask you about the warning on the instructions for the shampoo that says that the use the shampoo should be limited and not more than couple of weeks as it can create hair loss long term?

To the best of my knowledge this can't be true, even my dermatologist said I need to use Nizoral at least 1x weekly as a prophylactic measure against seborrhoeic dermatitis. If it's any consolation as well, the studies done on ketoconazole shampoos were done over a period of 1 year, with the greatest hair growth benefits being seen during the 6 month to 1 year mark.

I think the package insert is implying that if your seborrheic dermatitis doesn't clear up after a few weeks of treatment that you should consult a dermatologist. While hair loss is listed as a side effect of ketoconazole shampoos, it's definitely a rare one if clinical studies report regrowth benefits with long term use.

Selenium disulphide is another shampoo that *can* cause diffuse hair loss when using a 2.5% concentration but again it's only a minority of users. Dandruff and seborrhoeic dermatitis are very common ailments, if this was an alarming issue we'd definitely hear more complaining about various anti-dandruff shampoos and their propensity to cause hair loss.