Ivory Dome - Scalp Calcification Theory

[Arrade]

User Banned

 

[Saulo]

Nice comments.
To me it seems pretty likely that baldness is a process that occurs due to a sistemic situation - although it seems to trigger local factors that lead to hairloss.
This inflammation theory makes sense in order to explain why most of the people tend to lose some hair as they get older.
What is interesting is that this approach try to reverse the result of inflammation.
I have always thought this is way smarter than trying to "play with enzymes and hormones" - which most of the times brings serious side effects.

 

[barfacan]

why are the occipital hairs safe from calcification? Even when transplanted to the front of the scalp.

I believe there was also expirements where a researcher took hairs from balding/nonbalding scalp areas and transplanted them onto the arm, the 'balding' follicles continued to miniaturize while the nonbalding ones didnt. There seems to be some kind of resistance/sensitivity built into the follicle itself. We know that baldness needs some form of androgenic stimulation in order to progress, this stimulation can trigger some kind of process within the follicle (maybe based on many other unidentified co-factors which must exist). It's so confusing, but its probably true that androgens do end up killing you faster, not just in the hair but everywhere else!

 

[barfacan]

Funny, I thought I read something different. The "balding" follicles started to grow again on other parts of the body.

Maybe someone can post the study.

I believe one study showed that balding human follicles transplanted on an immune deficient mouse's back were growing normally. The one i referenced was human.

 

[barfacan]

I definitely can't say for sure. But as someone with retrograde alopecia (thinning on the sides and behind the ears) as well as missing patches of hair in my beard I don't feel my hair is only susceptible in the top of the scalp.

I initially started off with retrograde, the hair got quite thin but did not progress, whereas my frontal/crown continues to lose ground.

beard hair is stimulated by androgen's, almost inversely correlated to head hair. Not everyone has a full beard.

 

[kungfukenny]

Thank you for this thread, you have been very helpful to me.

What would be the dosage per day? And what supplements would I need?
Vitamin D and Vitamin K?

Thanks again.

 

[barfacan]

That really makes me think it has more to do with the local blood flow issue where the follicle is, rather than anything else.

I believe there must be some kind of property(ies) within the follicle complex itself which leads to its progressive destruction....triggered (at least in part) by the presence of androgens.

 

[barfacan]

I'm saying that I started feeling burning intensely in spots in my beard and saw I was devloping missing spots that weren't there before.
View attachment 111727
It's called alopecia barbae. He's bascially balding in his beard in this photo.
I understand beard hairs are turned into terminal, anagen hairs by DHT. But this was hair I already had that started to go missing

seems like a very separate condition, i dont know how rare it is but i doubt it has any strong correlation with common male pattern baldness factors...

 

[kungfukenny]

I'll break down how I used it.
Breakfast: 10,000 iu Vit D, 1 Life extension Super K pill
Lunch: 10,000 iu Vit D, 3 pills Jarrow's mk7
DInner: 10,000 iu Vit D, 4 pills Jarrow's mk7

This amounted to 30,000 iu Vit D + 1 mg mk4 + 1mg mk7
I used mangesium oil topically. You can find all these on Amazon

I took it for at least 3 weeks and my Vit D was tested in the middle of the range, if you are taking all of them together you shouldn't have toxicity

Thank you, much appreciated! Do you think it would be okay to use drops instead of capsules?

 

[kungfukenny]

It probably works the same. Mk7 is better than mk4 for deaclification for the blood vessels, in case you were buying thorne's liquid mk4 only

Thank you.

Do these products look okay to you?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vitamin-...psules-Vitamin-D-10-000iu-Vit-d-/291619324320

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jarrow-Formulas-MK-7-mcg-Count/dp/B0013OVVFA

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnesium-...SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=magnesium+oil&psc=1

Sorry for the hassle, just want to make sure I’m getting the right things.

Will definitely try this out as soon as I have lowered my estrogen levels and balanced my hormones.

 

[barfacan]

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._the_skin_of_the_arm_in_male_pattern_baldness

The author transplanted composite skin grafts from balding, non-balding, and bald areas of the scalp, to the skin of the arm. The galea aponeurotica was trimmed away from the grafts. The patient was a 29-yr-old male with progresive male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness). The transplants from the balding area became bald at the same rate as the balding donor site in the receding frontal, hairline, whereas the transplants taken from the non-balding area in the occiput continued to grow the same amount and quality of terminal hairs. Bald grafts taken in front of the receding hairline remained bald. This shows that the cause of male pattern baldness lies in the follicle itself or in its very close surrounding and does not depend on the galea aponeurotica, the increased tension of the scalp or of its muscles, the diminished vascular supply to the scalp or any other regional factor localized to the head area. It also shows that the 'balding clock' keeps time even when the follicle is transplanted to another region of the body.

Im just going off of that study (which was pointed out by the late great Bryan), who also posted the following

"In Nordstrom's experiment, the graft from the balding site declined sharply from 12 hairs to only 4 hairs over a period of 16 months, whereas the graft from the non-balding site actually INCREASED slightly (from 13 hairs to 14 hairs) over the same period of time. "

I dont have anywhere near the wealth of knowledge that he does, which is why i go through his old posts when i have time, he has had some very good debates, decades old.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/members/bryan.5/


I will definitely agree with you that taking a break and looking after your health will serve you very well, just get proper testing if you can afford it so you dont blindly take too many supplements that you possibly dont even need. Will it help your hair? it might, but i think we need specialized treatments for that, especially aggressive cases

 

[kungfukenny]

No worries.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CKEBFSE/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is the oil I used.
Probably the only one that needs to be the same is the Jarrow's Mk7.

Here is the Super K I take with breakfast:
https://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Advanced-Complex-Softgels/dp/B0771YC3GQ/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1549474009&sr=8-3&keywords=life+extension+super+K&th=1

Do you think there could be any health issues from taking that many capsules?

Thank you, will definitely try this out!

 

[bigjimmy]

I actually started the other day on vit D3 10000 iu and vit K2 (MK-7) 200mcg.

 

[barfacan]

Interseting. That would definitely be against the vascular theory and pro DHT follicle signaling.
How would this explain the results from dermaneedling though? Or why minoxdil makes finasteride more effective?
Thanks for the link

In the case of dermaneedling:

1) perhaps the disruption caused by the needles induces some kind of healing effect in very close proximity to the follicle which offsets the rate of destruction.

2) perhaps the disruption blocks one or some of the necessary factors of destruction and stops the balding progress for a while

3) perhaps a combination, or something completely different, too many unknown unknowns for me to speculate

Plus we have the question on hair cycles, which can last for years, and as far as im aware the hair can only miniaturize after it recycles.... which gives us a huge lag time, although not all hairs on top of head are synchronized

I really dont know, i am not that well researched into this and dont have any formal education in biology/physiology, just an amateur... although the more i look into it the more helpless i feel. If you cant handle finasteride then probably self expirementation is the only road until a legit safe treatment comes around. Trinov seems to be doing well for me atm so im happy for that

 

[barfacan]

I'm glad that the Trinov is working. Yeah the DHT gene theory is one that makes everyone helpless, though obviously finasteride does something haha.

finasteride removes a large part of the androgenic stimulation. Bryan came up with this idea that hairloss is 2 major factors (paraphrasing)

1) total amount of androgenic stimulation within the body

2) hair follicles genetically programmed sensitivity to said stimulation

he believes with age the sensitivity simply increases which causes further loss, and the damage is cumulative.

 

[bigjimmy]

Don't forget to take magnesium, it's a big part of it in my experience

Will pick some up tomorrow.

 

[kungfukenny]

I’ve seen in the microneedling thread comments saying that you shouldn’t microneedle until you have fixed your inflammation otherwise it could make it worse.
Do you think that’s true?

 

[barfacan]

I'll agree with Arrade in theory here. The point with micro-needling is to induce micro trauma and force healing, if there is active systemic inflammation then the scalp tissue may not heal in an optimal manner, or you could be driving even further inflammation. You probably want to get yourself in the best health possible, through diet and lifestyle changes, before attempting such experiments. Plus i dont think there's any universally agreed upon protocol w.r.t needling depth, frequency, topical application window, etc, etc so atm you need to go by trial and error with self experimentation, as i mentioned earlier. Blindly following somebody elses individual protocol can cause you some problems, like taking medicine at a random dose.

 

[Armando Jose]

Balding is a degenerative, progessive condition

+1

although not all hairs on top of head are synchronized

All human scalp hairs are unsynchronized. it is a distinctive for human being


BTW, Bryan never used finas, ..., clever guy

 

[Bushi]

Can't seem to see the message of Arrade right now, but saw him previously mention 30.000IU of vitamin D a day.
That seems far to much. I take around 3000IU a day and my blood level is 39 ng/ml which is a good level. 30.000 a day seems like pure poison if you take that for a while. And also to mention vitamin K, everyone should be careful with that vitamin, cause it can give blood cloths.