Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

[champpy]

Yep so I'm going to make a game out of it. I'm going to try to guess how many pages long this thing will get to before fidia makes an official announcement.

390. My guess is it will get to page 390 before we hear from them

 

[Xenithrising]

This thread has become a freaking click bait... A million views.. f*****g tens of thousands of replies..

Still little news, lots of anxiety..

You wont BELIEVE what happens on page 328. Click here to find out!

327 pages of MINDBLOWING tips on how to lose your sanity.

Are YOU a balding meme-loving nihilist? Click HERE to do a 2 minute test to find out!

 

[The 7TH Sense]

There are people here far more knowledgeable on this than I am, but based on the little that I know I wouldn't be surprised if it results similar to the Big 3 aren't out of the question IMO. Long term maintenance depends on how efficient Equol is at inhibiting DHT I guess, while PGE1 acts on similar pathways to minoxidil. Not sure though how effective it is compared to minoxidil, or to PGE2 or castor oil which some have used. Carnitine is interesting as it could attenuate oxidative stress, which is known to be high in balding hair follicles. Ultimately though, we'll have to wait for the trial results to find out how well it works.

There are many studies on the Internet about the capacities of Equol, many of them tried a lot of % in vitro tests. Equol and finasteride, as you know, act different ways. I don't wanna repeat the already 100 times discussed point, but I don't care about the power of it, while I can introduce Finasteride in my regimen. DHT would be reduced sistemically by fina, and topically could be totally detroyed by equol. Fun fact is that we do not know S-Equol's half-life, but with a therapy comprehensive of both, we should be ok, even against aggressive forms. Or maybe an upgrade to Dutasteride to systemically destroy almost every % of DHT, even if the risk of sides would be higher.
I know it's inevitable to compare Brotzu Lotion to the big 3, but right now it is the most senseless thing to think at (no offense on you though), it's better to think what products can support it when available. Finasteride for sure, I would put out Minoxidil because the action of DGLA is similar on the theorical side, but it's very different on the practical side. Stimulating the microcirculation means stimulating ALSO the perycite (minoxidil's effect) but causing no initial shedding nor the sides of minoxidil, because we are not going to superficially "drug" it, but we are going to repair it and the smaller and deeper cells, so it's not resulting in an "overpumping blood" effect only on the last parts of the blood's trip to the hair bulb. As Brotzu said when spoke at Genova's Gaslini, the Minoxidil can't go deeper than the perycite, because he can not reach the endothelial cells, but DGLA can if carried into cathionic liposomes (reaching the endothelial cells).

 

[Royaume]

Update us with information from the italian forum. This would be way more interesting and useful!

Thx 7th Sense.. I hope you dont misunderstand. My answer was not relating to your previous post. We just posted it on the same time.

 

[worm]

There are many studies on the Internet about the capacities of Equol, many of them tried a lot of % in vitro tests. Equol and finasteride, as you know, act different ways. I don't wanna repeat the already 100 times discussed point, but I don't care about the power of it, while I can introduce Finasteride in my regimen. DHT would be reduced sistemically by fina, and topically could be totally detroyed by equol. Fun fact is that we do not know S-Equol's half-life, but with a therapy comprehensive of both, we should be ok, even against aggressive forms. Or maybe an upgrade to Dutasteride to systemically destroy almost every % of DHT, even if the risk of sides would be higher.
I know it's inevitable to compare Brotzu Lotion to the big 3, but right now it is the most senseless thing to think at (no offense on you though), it's better to think what products can support it when available. Finasteride for sure, I would put out Minoxidil because the action of DGLA is similar on the theorical side, but it's very different on the practical side. Stimulating the microcirculation means stimulating ALSO the perycite (minoxidil's effect) but causing no initial shedding nor the sides of minoxidil, because we are not going to superficially "drug" it, but we are going to repair it and the smaller and deeper cells, so it's not resulting in an "overpumping blood" effect only on the last parts of the blood's trip to the hair bulb. As Brotzu said when spoke at Genova's Gaslini, the Minoxidil can't go deeper than the perycite, because he can not reach the endothelial cells, but DGLA can if carried into cathionic liposomes (reaching the endothelial cells).

View attachment 46711

If this is in fact the real deal, I wonder what type of effect if could be in combination as the big 4? Could minoxidil and finasteride, have complimentary effects to the point where full regrowth could be achieved? Every component has positive results due to different mechanisms.

I cant wait to find out, but if minoxidil stimulates growth, I dont see why brotzu wont help you keep the additional growth even after dropping minoxidil (assuming it works).

Anyways, only time will tell.

And for those griping about how Fidia is unprofessional for taking school holidays, it called "the rest of the world" people. The US is one of the few western countries that rarely takes a day off. Europeans get 5-6 weeks vacation on average. While I dont live there, I do think it's important to find time to live, and that doesnt mean they arent as profitable or effective as a company, it just means they dont exploit their labor the same way. The product works for AA, so keep your panties on, if the product didnt work or they decided to not release it, Im pretty sure we would know by now. For the sake of diligence, Merck or Pfizer wouldnt bend to the emotional needs of a few baldies on a thread, it's safe to say that Fidia wont either.

 

[Sweet-Potato]

4 Days? I'm using it for 3 months now, with a ton of regrowth, so every couple of days Nizoral shampoo 2%, going well so far.

I lost a sh*t ton of thin hairs in the first 3 weeks and now I'm losing almost nothing

I tried to use it on my hairline and saw it get 10x worse in a couple days and freaked. Right now my hair has become very wispy and dry. I havent washed it for close to a month because I dont want to see how many hairs i'll lose. How long did it take you to get regrowth you were happy with?

Minoxidil did nothing in terms of regrowth. Haven't had any side effects as well. Same story with keto.

This is my problem. If i use Minoxidil, I will lose tons of hair just applying the stuff. So if it doesnt work then my hair will look worse than when i started.

i like minoxidil...i put it off for a long time...i had no reaction for 2 weeks..then 2 weeks heavy shedding..then by 5th week in magnifying mirror i saw regrowth...still seeing regrowth--i also stopped shedding small hairs and hair is 'rooted' compared to before minoxidil...i use topical spironolactone also.

I resonate a lot with the 'rooted' part. I feel like I can pick all the hairs off my head because theyre not rooted. I cant comb it without the comb filling up with hair. What does spironolactone do and does it have any side effects? Do you think its the Minoxidil causing the regrowth or the Spir?

Also, how are you finding the application of it? In the short time I used it, it was such an effort to get up to apply it. You've been using it for a while now, how are you finding the overall experience?

Four days...

I shed for months and after about six or seven months I have lots of regrowth and new regrowth still.

was your hairloss diffuse or not? Seven months . Did it grow hair on any totally bald areas?

If you don't lose these hairs now, you will lose them some hours later or when you shower. Hold on boy, just continue and stay strong

Yeah but its the psychological effect of losing 200 hairs a day without noticing or losing 200 hair a day without noticing and another 200 when applying minoxidil/showering



btw I'm not trying to move away from Brotzu but I'd much rather ask you guys about your experiences because I feel you lot are sensible and I can trust your feedback rather than randoms on other threads

 

[Pacey123]

@sweet Potato, it took around 1 and a half month to get okish results, after now three months the temples have many many darker velus hairs if they turn terminal too I'm at my pre puberty state, but my hairloss seems to be very diffuse, had thinning all over the head but no completely bald spots exept for the right temple.

@topic, yes here in Austria we have something called Company Vacation as well, where the company as a whole is closed for 1 or 2 weeks, mainly around xmas, but no for grocery stores or retail in general.

 

[paxis]

This is my problem. If i use Minoxidil, I will lose tons of hair just applying the stuff. So if it doesnt work then my hair will look worse than when i started

Isn't shedding a sign that it works? I also heard that you will regrow the lost hair from the shed when you stop using minoxidil (if you only shed but had no regrowth yet). If you arent regrowing anything, you would have lost it anyway. Thats what I read.

 

[The 7TH Sense]

I'm curious about dermarolling's potential role in tandem with the lotion. I can't say I understand the exact science behind it, but it clearly is effective at helping minoxidil reach its desired location. I wonder what the adherence rate of the liposomes to the target cells are for the lotion and if it can be improved. Maybe dermarolling can bump the rate of the lotion's ingredients properly activating even higher.

If this is in fact the real deal, I wonder what type of effect if could be in combination as the big 4? Could minoxidil and finasteride, have complimentary effects to the point where full regrowth could be achieved? Every component has positive results due to different mechanisms.

I cant wait to find out, but if minoxidil stimulates growth, I dont see why brotzu wont help you keep the additional growth even after dropping minoxidil (assuming it works).

@Barbe a papa Dermarolling does not help Minoxidil to reach internal parts (endothelial cells in my previous explanation) but it helps to penetrate the skin: for example, all of the molecules contained in the Brotzu Lotion can't penetrate the skin by themselves (minoxidil can do in a moderate way). The strategy is to carry the DGLA with liposomes. But, you may say, there already are marketed liposomed Minoxidils like Nanoxidil and even in a better method: the "nanosomes", and, even if we have slightly better results, they are not enough to even be famous or to substitute the regular minoxidil. We have to remember, in this, the peculiarities of the DGLA common to all the other members of the evolutionary-chain which leads to the final member, the PGE1. That's the key and the difference. Also, we do not need in theory to get the PGE1 because DGLA already has most of its properties. Brotzu's innovation, aside from the synergies between the components, is the "CATHIONIC" liposomes; being positively charged, these liposomes can fully attach to the skin, using the "negative charges attract positive charges" used also in the doctor's example in the example of the "unwrapping of the candy", when he says that we often struggle when getting rid of the wrapper, attached to our hands and fingers by that system.

@worm I tried to explain it 100 times before, the Nizoral if I remember well fights the excess of sebum and has a minimal impact on 5-alfa-reductase in one of the versions marketed; it would be useful.
Finasteride and Dutasteride, I explained it well many pages ago: in synthesis, Fina inhibites the enzyme 5-alfa-reductase type 2, Duta inhibites also the type 1; they work by physically destroy the possibility to synthetize DHT from T, lowering DHT levels systemically (so causing on some people side effects), while S-Equol has the property to competitively bind to the DHT itself, making impossible for it to attach to the receptor and damage the hair bulb (because the complex S-Equol+DHT creates in fact a new molecule which can no more interact with the receptor, making impossible to cause damage to the follicle). My strongest opinion is that if we can systemically destroy the majority of DHT with fina or duta, and also use Equol to make the leftovers uneffective, we SHOULD be able to "freeze" the Androgenetic Alopecia. But inhibiting high % of DHT means theorically making more dangerous the side effects. In this, my questions are:
- What % of DHT is made unoffensive by using the prescribed dose of Brotzu Lotion?
- Is the lotion alone able to contrast the DHT or do we need the action of Fina or Duta?
- Since the theories and experimentations of the doctor seem to answer "No, fina and duta are not needed" to my last question, what results can we achieve by introducing fina or duta in a regime with the lotion only?
- If the results are better for real, how good is the (Effects)÷(Sides) evaluation, since the anti-DHT are not sides-free?
- In that evaluation, do we have the possibility that Equol goes systemic on those percentages? What happens if it goes? (I don't fully believe some of the users of the Spatolotion / fake lotion who reported the same sides of finasteride).

I personally think that everything that attacks Androgenetic Alopecia on a different side is useful. That's why on the last page I explained the theory of the uselessness of Minoxidil in a regime comprehending Brotzu lotion, go read again it @worm because from your post you didn't understand the doctor's theories about the microcirculation.
Also, even if the Minoxidil was partially understood before (we have some explanations of it in the SITRI archives, which say it helps the circulation), the majority of doctors just prescribes it because is FDA-approved and not because its mechanisms are well-known. Brotzu at ASAA conference made it so clear that many correctly said that he "discovered" the real Minoxidil effects, because, for him: it's a vasodilator, and can act ONLY on the perycite, not deeper (he repeated this so many times). DGLA in Brotzu formula acts, like PGE1, deeper, on the endothelial cells.

By myself I create an example for you: imagine you have a tube, but it's partially clogged, and you want to water your plants; this tube is made of two elastic parts; a deeper circumference made of rubber (endothelial cells) and a more superficial circumference (perycite) attached firmly to the deeper one, but they can't enlarge themselves alone, only if stimulated. The fact is: it is better to stimulate the deeper ones (DGLA or PGE1 carried by cathionic liposomes when stimulating endothelial cells) to enlarge, because you are going to expand also the superficial (perycite), and you are affecting both of them. Minoxidil stimulates only the perycite, so you are going to enlarge the external circumference, but you are making fatigue due to the fact you're not making to enlarge the deeper one by itself, you are forcing it to do so, like carrying it away.
I would ask also some other experienced user like @That Guy to help me understand better the mechanisms if I went wrong or if I seem logic. I post another time Brotzu's graphics:

I must repeat another time, even Brotzu himself in the patent experimented 5 different formulations; he also asked himself if only DGLA was effective, then tried with only it, and he didn't even achieve the stop of hairs' fall. By introducing Equol and DGLA and Carnitine on the current percentages, the initial effectiveness quantified in a 1 scale, rose to 10. In the patent is written clearly by Brotzu himself that the extraordinary effects were not due to the singular properties of the molecules (DGLA, Equol, Carnitine), but the SYNERGISTIC EFFECT of all of them at the right percentages.
And maybe that's what can interfere with the introduction of another member in a regime (fina, duta, dermaroller, RCH-01, Kelopesia... ), because we may lose the synergies that the lotion requires. Don't worry: I'll probably be the one to experiment for you Finasteride + Lotion if next week I'll be finally diagnosed with Androgenetic Alopecia and if I get a prescription for fina.

 

[Pavi]

@Barbe a papa Dermarolling does not help Minoxidil to reach internal parts (endothelial cells in my previous explanation) but it helps to penetrate the skin: for example, all of the molecules contained in the Brotzu Lotion can't penetrate the skin by themselves (minoxidil can do in a moderate way). The strategy is to carry the DGLA with liposomes. But, you may say, there already are marketed liposomed Minoxidils like Nanoxidil and even in a better method: the "nanosomes", and, even if we have slightly better results, they are not enough to even be famous or to substitute the regular minoxidil. We have to remember, in this, the peculiarities of the DGLA common to all the other members of the evolutionary-chain which leads to the final member, the PGE1. That's the key and the difference. Also, we do not need in theory to get the PGE1 because DGLA already has most of its properties. Brotzu's innovation, aside from the synergies between the components, is the "CATHIONIC" liposomes; being positively charged, these liposomes can fully attach to the skin, using the "negative charges attract positive charges" used also in the doctor's example in the example of the "unwrapping of the candy", when he says that we often struggle when getting rid of the wrapper, attached to our hands and fingers by that system.

@worm I tried to explain it 100 times before, the Nizoral if I remember well fights the excess of sebum and has a minimal impact on 5-alfa-reductase in one of the versions marketed; it would be useful.
Finasteride and Dutasteride, I explained it well many pages ago: in synthesis, Fina inhibites the enzyme 5-alfa-reductase type 2, Duta inhibites also the type 1; they work by physically destroy the possibility to synthetize DHT from T, lowering DHT levels systemically (so causing on some people side effects), while S-Equol has the property to competitively bind to the DHT itself, making impossible for it to attach to the receptor and damage the hair bulb (because the complex S-Equol+DHT creates in fact a new molecule which can no more interact with the receptor, making impossible to cause damage to the follicle). My strongest opinion is that if we can systemically destroy the majority of DHT with fina or duta, and also use Equol to make the leftovers uneffective, we SHOULD be able to "freeze" the Androgenetic Alopecia. But inhibiting high % of DHT means theorically making more dangerous the side effects. In this, my questions are:
- What % of DHT is made unoffensive by using the prescribed dose of Brotzu Lotion?
- Is the lotion alone able to contrast the DHT or do we need the action of Fina or Duta?
- Since the theories and experimentations of the doctor seem to answer "No, fina and duta are not needed" to my last question, what results can we achieve by introducing fina or duta in a regime with the lotion only?
- If the results are better for real, how good is the (Effects)÷(Sides) evaluation, since the anti-DHT are not sides-free?
- In that evaluation, do we have the possibility that Equol goes systemic on those percentages? What happens if it goes? (I don't fully believe some of the users of the Spatolotion / fake lotion who reported the same sides of finasteride).

I personally think that everything that attacks Androgenetic Alopecia on a different side is useful. That's why on the last page I explained the theory of the uselessness of Minoxidil in a regime comprehending Brotzu lotion, go read again it @worm because from your post you didn't understand the doctor's theories about the microcirculation.
Also, even if the Minoxidil was partially understood before (we have some explanations of it in the SITRI archives, which say it helps the circulation), the majority of doctors just prescribes it because is FDA-approved and not because its mechanisms are well-known. Brotzu at ASAA conference made it so clear that many correctly said that he "discovered" the real Minoxidil effects, because, for him: it's a vasodilator, and can act ONLY on the perycite, not deeper (he repeated this so many times). DGLA in Brotzu formula acts, like PGE1, deeper, on the endothelial cells.

By myself I create an example for you: imagine you have a tube, but it's partially clogged, and you want to water your plants; this tube is made of two elastic parts; a deeper circumference made of rubber (endothelial cells) and a more superficial circumference (perycite) attached firmly to the deeper one, but they can't enlarge themselves alone, only if stimulated. The fact is: it is better to stimulate the deeper ones (DGLA or PGE1 carried by cathionic liposomes when stimulating endothelial cells) to enlarge, because you are going to expand also the superficial (perycite), and you are affecting both of them. Minoxidil stimulates only the perycite, so you are going to enlarge the external circumference, but you are making fatigue due to the fact you're not making to enlarge the deeper one by itself, you are forcing it to do so, like carrying it away.
I would ask also some other experienced user like @That Guy to help me understand better the mechanisms if I went wrong or if I seem logic. I post another time Brotzu's graphics:

View attachment 46727


I must repeat another time, even Brotzu himself in the patent experimented 5 different formulations; he also asked himself if only DGLA was effective, then tried with only it, and he didn't even achieve the stop of hairs' fall. By introducing Equol and DGLA and Carnitine on the current percentages, the initial effectiveness quantified in a 1 scale, rose to 10. In the patent is written clearly by Brotzu himself that the extraordinary effects were not due to the singular properties of the molecules (DGLA, Equol, Carnitine), but the SYNERGISTIC EFFECT of all of them at the right percentages.
And maybe that's what can interfere with the introduction of another member in a regime (fina, duta, dermaroller, RCH-01, Kelopesia... ), because we may lose the synergies that the lotion requires. Don't worry: I'll probably be the one to experiment for you Finasteride + Lotion if next week I'll be finally diagnosed with Androgenetic Alopecia and if I get a prescription for fina.

Good work man. I felt like I was in my human physiology class all over again lol

 

[BruceMackenzie]

On the minoxidil front, in my own anecdotal experience I have used Rogaine for 1 year and then quit (I was going to get a hair transplant then changed my mind) and then one year later I am on my second attempt at it. The first time I used it my hair shed constantly and heavily for the entire time I used it, but I also got good results. This time I've been on it again for about 6 months and I've had almost zero shedding and great results also. So shedding isn't always a great indicator, although it's useful for some.

 

[MrJolly16]

@Barbe a papa Dermarolling does not help Minoxidil to reach internal parts (endothelial cells in my previous explanation) but it helps to penetrate the skin: for example, all of the molecules contained in the Brotzu Lotion can't penetrate the skin by themselves (minoxidil can do in a moderate way). The strategy is to carry the DGLA with liposomes. But, you may say, there already are marketed liposomed Minoxidils like Nanoxidil and even in a better method: the "nanosomes", and, even if we have slightly better results, they are not enough to even be famous or to substitute the regular minoxidil. We have to remember, in this, the peculiarities of the DGLA common to all the other members of the evolutionary-chain which leads to the final member, the PGE1. That's the key and the difference. Also, we do not need in theory to get the PGE1 because DGLA already has most of its properties. Brotzu's innovation, aside from the synergies between the components, is the "CATHIONIC" liposomes; being positively charged, these liposomes can fully attach to the skin, using the "negative charges attract positive charges" used also in the doctor's example in the example of the "unwrapping of the candy", when he says that we often struggle when getting rid of the wrapper, attached to our hands and fingers by that system.

@worm I tried to explain it 100 times before, the Nizoral if I remember well fights the excess of sebum and has a minimal impact on 5-alfa-reductase in one of the versions marketed; it would be useful.
Finasteride and Dutasteride, I explained it well many pages ago: in synthesis, Fina inhibites the enzyme 5-alfa-reductase type 2, Duta inhibites also the type 1; they work by physically destroy the possibility to synthetize DHT from T, lowering DHT levels systemically (so causing on some people side effects), while S-Equol has the property to competitively bind to the DHT itself, making impossible for it to attach to the receptor and damage the hair bulb (because the complex S-Equol+DHT creates in fact a new molecule which can no more interact with the receptor, making impossible to cause damage to the follicle). My strongest opinion is that if we can systemically destroy the majority of DHT with fina or duta, and also use Equol to make the leftovers uneffective, we SHOULD be able to "freeze" the Androgenetic Alopecia. But inhibiting high % of DHT means theorically making more dangerous the side effects. In this, my questions are:
- What % of DHT is made unoffensive by using the prescribed dose of Brotzu Lotion?
- Is the lotion alone able to contrast the DHT or do we need the action of Fina or Duta?
- Since the theories and experimentations of the doctor seem to answer "No, fina and duta are not needed" to my last question, what results can we achieve by introducing fina or duta in a regime with the lotion only?
- If the results are better for real, how good is the (Effects)÷(Sides) evaluation, since the anti-DHT are not sides-free?
- In that evaluation, do we have the possibility that Equol goes systemic on those percentages? What happens if it goes? (I don't fully believe some of the users of the Spatolotion / fake lotion who reported the same sides of finasteride).

I personally think that everything that attacks Androgenetic Alopecia on a different side is useful. That's why on the last page I explained the theory of the uselessness of Minoxidil in a regime comprehending Brotzu lotion, go read again it @worm because from your post you didn't understand the doctor's theories about the microcirculation.
Also, even if the Minoxidil was partially understood before (we have some explanations of it in the SITRI archives, which say it helps the circulation), the majority of doctors just prescribes it because is FDA-approved and not because its mechanisms are well-known. Brotzu at ASAA conference made it so clear that many correctly said that he "discovered" the real Minoxidil effects, because, for him: it's a vasodilator, and can act ONLY on the perycite, not deeper (he repeated this so many times). DGLA in Brotzu formula acts, like PGE1, deeper, on the endothelial cells.

By myself I create an example for you: imagine you have a tube, but it's partially clogged, and you want to water your plants; this tube is made of two elastic parts; a deeper circumference made of rubber (endothelial cells) and a more superficial circumference (perycite) attached firmly to the deeper one, but they can't enlarge themselves alone, only if stimulated. The fact is: it is better to stimulate the deeper ones (DGLA or PGE1 carried by cathionic liposomes when stimulating endothelial cells) to enlarge, because you are going to expand also the superficial (perycite), and you are affecting both of them. Minoxidil stimulates only the perycite, so you are going to enlarge the external circumference, but you are making fatigue due to the fact you're not making to enlarge the deeper one by itself, you are forcing it to do so, like carrying it away.
I would ask also some other experienced user like @That Guy to help me understand better the mechanisms if I went wrong or if I seem logic. I post another time Brotzu's graphics:

View attachment 46727


I must repeat another time, even Brotzu himself in the patent experimented 5 different formulations; he also asked himself if only DGLA was effective, then tried with only it, and he didn't even achieve the stop of hairs' fall. By introducing Equol and DGLA and Carnitine on the current percentages, the initial effectiveness quantified in a 1 scale, rose to 10. In the patent is written clearly by Brotzu himself that the extraordinary effects were not due to the singular properties of the molecules (DGLA, Equol, Carnitine), but the SYNERGISTIC EFFECT of all of them at the right percentages.
And maybe that's what can interfere with the introduction of another member in a regime (fina, duta, dermaroller, RCH-01, Kelopesia... ), because we may lose the synergies that the lotion requires. Don't worry: I'll probably be the one to experiment for you Finasteride + Lotion if next week I'll be finally diagnosed with Androgenetic Alopecia and if I get a prescription for fina.

So, does the Nizoral (ketoconazol, right? like Fungarest in Spain) help us to "fight" the Androgenetic Alopecia?

I used for several years then I decided to quit, but I dont even remember why... What I do know is that Dr. Couto suggested his patients to use it at least twice a week after hair transplants.

 

[hairblues]

I resonate a lot with the 'rooted' part. I feel like I can pick all the hairs off my head because theyre not rooted. I cant comb it without the comb filling up with hair. What does spironolactone do and does it have any side effects? Do you think its the Minoxidil causing the regrowth or the Spir?

Also, how are you finding the application of it? In the short time I used it, it was such an effort to get up to apply it. You've been using it for a while now, how are you finding the overall experience?

If you go to womens section--womens treatments you can read my thread about spironolactone..i dont want to clog up this thread even though i know its a joke. you can PM me also.

 

[Ikkaku]

I don't think dermarolling is to help penetration.
It helps for wouding.

 

[paxis]

I don't think dermarolling is to help penetration.
It helps for wouding.

Both. But wounding only happens if u make your scalp bleed.

 

[worm]

@Barbe a papa Dermarolling does not help Minoxidil to reach internal parts (endothelial cells in my previous explanation) but it helps to penetrate the skin: for example, all of the molecules contained in the Brotzu Lotion can't penetrate the skin by themselves (minoxidil can do in a moderate way). The strategy is to carry the DGLA with liposomes. But, you may say, there already are marketed liposomed Minoxidils like Nanoxidil and even in a better method: the "nanosomes", and, even if we have slightly better results, they are not enough to even be famous or to substitute the regular minoxidil. We have to remember, in this, the peculiarities of the DGLA common to all the other members of the evolutionary-chain which leads to the final member, the PGE1. That's the key and the difference. Also, we do not need in theory to get the PGE1 because DGLA already has most of its properties. Brotzu's innovation, aside from the synergies between the components, is the "CATHIONIC" liposomes; being positively charged, these liposomes can fully attach to the skin, using the "negative charges attract positive charges" used also in the doctor's example in the example of the "unwrapping of the candy", when he says that we often struggle when getting rid of the wrapper, attached to our hands and fingers by that system.

@worm I tried to explain it 100 times before, the Nizoral if I remember well fights the excess of sebum and has a minimal impact on 5-alfa-reductase in one of the versions marketed; it would be useful.
Finasteride and Dutasteride, I explained it well many pages ago: in synthesis, Fina inhibites the enzyme 5-alfa-reductase type 2, Duta inhibites also the type 1; they work by physically destroy the possibility to synthetize DHT from T, lowering DHT levels systemically (so causing on some people side effects), while S-Equol has the property to competitively bind to the DHT itself, making impossible for it to attach to the receptor and damage the hair bulb (because the complex S-Equol+DHT creates in fact a new molecule which can no more interact with the receptor, making impossible to cause damage to the follicle). My strongest opinion is that if we can systemically destroy the majority of DHT with fina or duta, and also use Equol to make the leftovers uneffective, we SHOULD be able to "freeze" the Androgenetic Alopecia. But inhibiting high % of DHT means theorically making more dangerous the side effects. In this, my questions are:
- What % of DHT is made unoffensive by using the prescribed dose of Brotzu Lotion?
- Is the lotion alone able to contrast the DHT or do we need the action of Fina or Duta?
- Since the theories and experimentations of the doctor seem to answer "No, fina and duta are not needed" to my last question, what results can we achieve by introducing fina or duta in a regime with the lotion only?
- If the results are better for real, how good is the (Effects)÷(Sides) evaluation, since the anti-DHT are not sides-free?
- In that evaluation, do we have the possibility that Equol goes systemic on those percentages? What happens if it goes? (I don't fully believe some of the users of the Spatolotion / fake lotion who reported the same sides of finasteride).

I personally think that everything that attacks Androgenetic Alopecia on a different side is useful. That's why on the last page I explained the theory of the uselessness of Minoxidil in a regime comprehending Brotzu lotion, go read again it @worm because from your post you didn't understand the doctor's theories about the microcirculation.
Also, even if the Minoxidil was partially understood before (we have some explanations of it in the SITRI archives, which say it helps the circulation), the majority of doctors just prescribes it because is FDA-approved and not because its mechanisms are well-known. Brotzu at ASAA conference made it so clear that many correctly said that he "discovered" the real Minoxidil effects, because, for him: it's a vasodilator, and can act ONLY on the perycite, not deeper (he repeated this so many times). DGLA in Brotzu formula acts, like PGE1, deeper, on the endothelial cells.

By myself I create an example for you: imagine you have a tube, but it's partially clogged, and you want to water your plants; this tube is made of two elastic parts; a deeper circumference made of rubber (endothelial cells) and a more superficial circumference (perycite) attached firmly to the deeper one, but they can't enlarge themselves alone, only if stimulated. The fact is: it is better to stimulate the deeper ones (DGLA or PGE1 carried by cathionic liposomes when stimulating endothelial cells) to enlarge, because you are going to expand also the superficial (perycite), and you are affecting both of them. Minoxidil stimulates only the perycite, so you are going to enlarge the external circumference, but you are making fatigue due to the fact you're not making to enlarge the deeper one by itself, you are forcing it to do so, like carrying it away.
I would ask also some other experienced user like @That Guy to help me understand better the mechanisms if I went wrong or if I seem logic. I post another time Brotzu's graphics:

View attachment 46727


I must repeat another time, even Brotzu himself in the patent experimented 5 different formulations; he also asked himself if only DGLA was effective, then tried with only it, and he didn't even achieve the stop of hairs' fall. By introducing Equol and DGLA and Carnitine on the current percentages, the initial effectiveness quantified in a 1 scale, rose to 10. In the patent is written clearly by Brotzu himself that the extraordinary effects were not due to the singular properties of the molecules (DGLA, Equol, Carnitine), but the SYNERGISTIC EFFECT of all of them at the right percentages.
And maybe that's what can interfere with the introduction of another member in a regime (fina, duta, dermaroller, RCH-01, Kelopesia... ), because we may lose the synergies that the lotion requires. Don't worry: I'll probably be the one to experiment for you Finasteride + Lotion if next week I'll be finally diagnosed with Androgenetic Alopecia and if I get a prescription for fina.

Thank you for the clear explanation. Understood that Brotzu says that there is no need to minoxidil or anything other. Personally I get sides on finasteride, so that's a no go. But with respect to minoxidil, It seems as you say, the DGLA affects the endothelial cells, which stimulates growth at a deeper and more effective level. That said, with the dilation, wouldn't that allow minoxidil to penetrate deeper? Could there not be a synergistic effect by combining the two as well?

 

[hairblues]

Did Brotzu ever actually 'write' that it works as well as finasteride/Propecia ?

 

[Switzer]

Did Brotzu ever actually 'write' that it works as well as finasteride/Propecia ?

Don't know if he directly said it works as well as finasteride, but these quotes from the patent seems to imply that it's even more effective.

There are many methods described for treatment and prevention of baldness through aids acting on the hair shaft, trying to make it stronger, or on the bulb, attempting to identify the reasons why it becomes atrophied to find a solution. Some positive attempts were made by employing actual drugs, such as the well known Minoxidil and Finasteride.

and

Clinical trials that were carried out further demonstrated a surprisingly higher efficacy of the products described herein in comparison with what is known, so as to make their use possible at concentrations markedly lower than those of already known products.

 

[kuba197]

http://calvizie.net/documento.asp?args=27.1.1302

 

[tzt]

Did Brotzu ever actually 'write' that it works as well as finasteride/Propecia ?

i remember he said that.