Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

[kuba197]

You guys are crazy if you're not excited about this; an esteemed Doctor developing a topical (potentially out next year) that can stop hair loss and give "impressive regrowth." I'll be honest, if you're a NW3 or under this could be HUGE for you (me)

As you can see this thread has many replies so it has some popularity. Imo many users think that it helps in some way but not beat finasteride. I hope that they are completly wrong

 

[dupaman]

This sounds like the perfect lotion that we have been waiting for many years. The fact that works at some extends without side effects is huge compared to what we have today, and also the short timeline to market seems to be the best part of it. I guess a lot of people is exited but guys that have been waiting 15 years for something like this, like me, are still cautious about getting our expectatives to high due to the numerous disapointments suffered before. I have to admit this looks very legit but also too good to be true at the same time. Great science, great scientis behind it, on the other hand, no pictures, almost no cover by media...Time will tell...

 

[BTW]

I don't want to get too hyped but at the same time it's the first time I heard of these pericytes and how they are related to Androgenetic Alopecia, it's too specific

 

[whatevr]

"About 4 years ago we developed a lotion containing cationic liposomes carrying PGE 1, S-equol and Carnitine and began to experiment on people with androgenetic alopecia and then was tested on a child with alopecia areata. The results were excellent and surprising
The PGE1 improved microcirculation, the s-equol blocked the 5-α- reductase preventing testosterone from turning the dihydrotestosterone and carnitine enters the beta-oxidation of lipid chains facilitating metabolism."

I thought S-Equol was a DHT inhibitor, not a 5-AR one. S-Equol should not effect 5-AR but bind to DHT molecules thus deactivating them.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

"About 4 years ago we developed a lotion containing cationic liposomes carrying PGE 1, S-equol and Carnitine and began to experiment on people with androgenetic alopecia and then was tested on a child with alopecia areata. The results were excellent and surprising
The PGE1 improved microcirculation, the s-equol blocked the 5-α- reductase preventing testosterone from turning the dihydrotestosterone and carnitine enters the beta-oxidation of lipid chains facilitating metabolism."

I thought S-Equol was a DHT inhibitor, not a 5-AR one. S-Equol should not effect 5-AR but bind to DHT molecules thus deactivating them.

That was my one reservation about his interview.

 

[whatevr]

Could be he just misspoke. I do hope he knows what he's talking about otherwise.

 

[I.D WALKER]

Yes I too am looking for a rainbow in Brotzku's innovation.
Even though I am mindful of the perilous repercussions I may have to endure
while hanging my hope on the tail of a whirlwind.
Only until the dust of speculation has settled
and I can finally see and behold real proof of a viable solution,
I can only shore up my realistic expectations
as I wait out yet another storm.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

Yes I too am looking for a rainbow in Brotzku's innovation.
Even though I am mindful of the perilous repercussions I may have to endure
while hanging my hope on the tail of a whirlwind.
Only until the dust of speculation has settled
and I can finally see and behold real proof of a viable solution,
I can only shore up my realistic expectations
as I wait out yet another storm.

That was poetic

 

[peewee]

we could all chip in $$ and send someone to visit and interview

 

[GotHair?]

we could all chip in $$ and send someone to visit and interview

Who exactly do you want to interview? Everything is in Fidias hands now. And they won't release any information until their in house trial is done. Even then if trial results prove to be detrimental to stock price of Fidia they might not release them at all.

 

[atthekeysbored]

Hopefully this comes out early next year, the "5 years of regrowth" has already become "4 years of regrowth" for those currently anticipating this product.

 

[Mr White]

I can't wait to try this! I'm not expecting a miracle cure but the Italian lotion is the most promising new treatment we've got right now.

 

[Mr White]

[...] The PGE1 improved microcirculation, the s-equol blocked the 5-α- reductase preventing testosterone from turning the dihydrotestosterone and carnitine enters the beta-oxidation of lipid chains facilitating metabolism."
[...]

I'm not an expert but this is what makes Brotzu's lotion so promising: it is a multifactorial treatment and works in several different ways.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I'm not clear on exactly what equol might do to DHT.

Maybe @Swoop knows?

Either way, we have several possibilities, maybe it's just not clear and people are making sh*t up.

1) Dr. Brotzu says equol works by blocking 5AR. If that is the case, equol is just finasteride. Might have a different sensitivity curve in the skin/blood/brain, who knows.

2) This article from 2003
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14681200?dopt=Abstract
It is written by researchers at major American institutions.

Says that equol blocks the effect of DHT in rats which are given DHT directly (as opposed to 5ar). Says equol thus attacks DHT. blood DHT levels stayed at the same levels. Says equol has no effect on testosterone, estrogen, or dehydroepiandrosterone. Says equol does not bind to prostatic androgen receptor, but does bind to Estrogen-B receptor.
Equol apparently binds to SHBG.

The anti-androgenic properties of equol are unique in that equol does not bind the androgen receptor (AR) but specifically binds 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) with high affinity, and thereby prevents DHT from binding the AR.

They took some castrated rats. The ones given only equol showed no change in prostate size. The ones given DHT showed increase prostate size. The ones given both DHT and equol showed showed no change in prostate size. The same is true of the effect of DHT on luteinizing hormone (LH). Since the DHT was given directly, this shows that equol's effect on DHT has nothing to do with 5AR. See the figures below:

3) In this case study,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476
a man lost his libido and his erectile function after going on a vegan diet. The authors argue it's because of Soy's estrogen-like properties. After he quit the vegan diet, it took him a year for his sexual function and other hormones to recover.

4) In this study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098
Soy protein consumptions reduced DHT and DHT/T in healthy young men by modest amounts (~15%), and it's independent of the dose of isoflavones. The effects on other hormones are very small.

*******

Separately, does topical equol go systemic? To what extent?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

More.

5) In this study
http://www.nature.com/pcan/journal/v12/n3/abs/pcan200910a.html
Increasing equol levels has no effect on estrogen and testosterone, but it increases SHBG and decreases DHT.
The fact that testosterone and estrogen did not change argues against the possibility that equol acts on 5AR.

6) In this study,
http://rbej.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7827-9-4
in vitro PSA counts increase when DHT is administered directly, but this affect is mediated by administering equol as well:

Among other results.

7) In this study of men with benign prostatic hyperplagia
http://file.scirp.org/Html/4-5000122_28010.htm
Equol supplementation was found to relieve symptoms significantly without having any effect on blood hormones, other than a modest (~21%) decrease in DHT in those with severe BPH. Those with moderate BPH showed no decrease. They have this cute figure in their paper:

It looks like there's a lot of evidence that Equol acts on DHT and not on T. Equol might also downregulate anrogen receptors?

We also still don't know if topical equol goes systemic, and why Brotzu said what he did.

 

[hilbert]

More.

5) In this study
http://www.nature.com/pcan/journal/v12/n3/abs/pcan200910a.html
Increasing equol levels has no effect on estrogen and testosterone, but it increases SHBG and decreases DHT.
The fact that testosterone and estrogen did not change argues against the possibility that equol acts on 5AR.

6) In this study,
http://rbej.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7827-9-4
in vitro PSA counts increase when DHT is administered directly, but this affect is mediated by administering equol as well:

Among other results.

7) In this study of men with benign prostatic hyperplagia
http://file.scirp.org/Html/4-5000122_28010.htm
Equol supplementation was found to relieve symptoms significantly without having any effect on blood hormones, other than a modest (~21%) decrease in DHT in those with severe BPH. Those with moderate BPH showed no decrease. They have this cute figure in their paper:

It looks like there's a lot of evidence that Equol acts on DHT and not on T. Equol might also downregulate anrogen receptors?

We also still don't know if topical equol goes systemic, and why Brotzu said what he did.

yes equol binds to dht. no (relevant) action on 5arX or ARs. brotzu made an error, this is not his field.
we've already discussed this on the it forum.

 

[hidden]

in a recent email to fidia, they said that they don't know why the dr said that ( regrading reversing 5 years of hair loss... )

 

[irishlad87]

in a recent email to fidia, they said that they don't know why the dr said that ( regrading reversing 5 years of hair loss... )

i think this is beginning to unravel if true the most exciting thing about this was reversing hairloss.

 

[hidden]

"I do not know the reason why Doctor Brotzu is saying that.

We cannot make now any promise, before having finished the study.


We will keep you posted on the next steps


Best regards "

this is their official reply regarding the 5 yrs....

 

[Pavi]

What do you guys expect? They're trials are not done. They can't just claim things not knowing if they will actually happen. That's actually commendable on their part. That doesn't mean this can't or won't work