Is this true about minoxidil

[Bryan]

Here's exactly what she said in the "Discussion" section near the end:

"Mean percentage changes in interval weights from baseline are shown in Fig 1. The placebo and untreated groups appear to behave similarly, showing a steady decrease in hair weight from baseline over the 120 weeks. This decrease can be taken as the 'normal' hair loss for this group of subjects with androgenetic alopecia and amounts to a 6% decrease in weight per year. The 2% and 5% minoxidil groups appear to decrease with nearly the same average downward slope, once the peak rate of growth has been passed. The treatments appear to induce a consistent increased growth offset (above placebo or untreated groups) of roughly 25% for the 2% minoxidil treatment and 35% for the 5% minoxidil treatment, an average increase of about 30%, maintained during the 96 weeks of treatment. These growth offsets represent a long-term retardation of the hair loss process by both 2% and 5% topical minoxidil treatments."

Bryan

 

[Bismarck]

That's what Vera Price said. She said it was "nearly the same".

The only thing that makes me wonder is that peak of regrowth. What is the explanation for the fact that hair counts are declining so fast after the peak is reached?

 

[Bryan]

The only thing that makes me wonder is that peak of regrowth. What is the explanation for the fact that hair counts are declining so fast after the peak is reached?

???

The balding process, of course.

Bryan

 

[Bismarck]

The only thing that makes me wonder is that peak of regrowth. What is the explanation for the fact that hair counts are declining so fast after the peak is reached?

???

The balding process, of course.

Bryan

I understand. But this peak happens so suddenly (in contrast to finasteride for example)

 

[Bryan]

But using Proxiphen is more than just an offset regrowth right? I mean in addition to the growth, it should stop further loss?

Yes. I think there's considerably more to Proxiphen than just that "offset of growth" that you get with minoxidil! :wink: It has all that tissue-repair and regeneration stuff in it, like the copper-peptides and those turbocharged SODs like TEMPOL, PBN, etc.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

I understand. But this peak happens so suddenly (in contrast to finasteride for example)

Well, we were talking first about the DOWNWARD slope once the peak of regrowth is achieved, but now you seem to be wondering about the rapidity of the UPWARD slope at the beginning? I guess that's just minoxidil for ya...it works faster than finasteride, evidently.

Bryan

 

[Bismarck]

I understand. But this peak happens so suddenly (in contrast to finasteride for example)

Well, we were talking first about the DOWNWARD slope once the peak of regrowth is achieved, but now you seem to be wondering about the rapidity of the UPWARD slope at the beginning? I guess that's just minoxidil for ya...it works faster than finasteride, evidently.

Bryan

"Thats's just minoxidil" . Exactly, so how exactly is it working? Yes, it works faster but that results are fading so fast after the peak that this observation can't just be explained with male pattern baldness progression.

 

[Guest]

results are fading so fast after the peak that this observation can't just be explained with male pattern baldness progression.

hair loss after the peak of minoxidils effect on hair growth continues at a similar rate to the untreated/placebo rate, so it can be explained with normal male pattern baldness progression.

 

[Bismarck]

results are fading so fast after the peak that this observation can't just be explained with male pattern baldness progression.

hair loss after the peak of minoxidils effect on hair growth continues at a similar rate to the untreated/placebo rate, so it can be explained with normal male pattern baldness progression.

Sure. I had a curve in mind that looks like the Deaner spike.

 

[Guest]

Sure. I had a curve in mind that looks like the Deaner spike.

? :shock:

have you been drinking, heavily?

 

[Bismarck]

Sure. I had a curve in mind that looks like the Deaner spike.

? :shock:

have you been drinking, heavily?

No ?!?! Only the recommended dose: 1ml two times a day, I use Kirkland's and never had any problems. Only that OzBrew stuff makes me really feel sick.

 

[Buffboy]

So minoxidil alone will only give you 2 years of extra hair - and then it's all over? So the thing about takin minoxidil twice a day for the rest of your life is actually unnecessary? I mean, then you can might as well stop taking it after 2-3 years?

 

[Bismarck]

So minoxidil alone will only give you 2 years of extra hair - and then it's all over? So the thing about takin minoxidil twice a day for the rest of your life is actually unnecessary? I mean, then you can might as well stop taking it after 2-3 years?

No. As long as you use minoxidil you are likely to have more hair than if you don't use it at all.
It doesn't stop working ... It just produces the most impressive during the first year of treatment.

bis

 

[Guest]

So minoxidil alone will only give you 2 years of extra hair - and then it's all over? So the thing about takin minoxidil twice a day for the rest of your life is actually unnecessary? I mean, then you can might as well stop taking it after 2-3 years?

God give me strength!

Buffboy read this whole thread again.

If you stop after 2-3 years you will lose the hair you have gained.

Look at the yellow dashed line after year 5 and compare it to the solid red line, now make your choice.

 

[Faston]

Tynan, your visual explanation is worthy of Tufte. It's inspired me to add minoxidil to my regimen.

 

[Bryan]

"A picture is worth a thousand words", as they say. Tynan's chart is excellent in showing the relative effects of minoxidil, finasteride, and combinations thereof.

Bryan

 

[Bismarck]

again, my question is, what is the mode of action of minoxidil.

 

[Buffboy]

Sorry guys - Tynan always has the answer :shock:

 

[The Gardener]

again, my question is, what is the mode of action of minoxidil.

Bis, nobody really knows. At one point they thought it was the vasodilative properties, but that theory was somewhat debunked. The latest I heard is that minoxidil does something vis-a-vis 'potassium channels' in the follicle, or something like that. But, nobody really knows why minoxidil grows hair.

Picture the follicle as being a road with a stoplight on it. Picture hair growth as the cars coming through that stoplight. DHT hits the follicle, and turns the light red, and then the flow of cars through the intersection slows to a crawl, and finally stops. Drugs like finasteride work by keeping the DHT from hitting the stoplight, and thus the light turns back to green and the flow of cars continues unabated. Minoxidil has no effect on the stoplight, the DHT still hits the follicle, the light still turns red, but for some reason or another the cars don't stop!

 

[smacker]

:roll:

All this still leaves me wondering if I have anything to gain by using minoxidil if male pattern baldness will still occur indefinitely. If I DO use it there is the question of which brand. AND if I do start using it, I will have to for life...But what about if something more effective comes out and I have to keep forking out for minoxidil as well so I don't go bald all of a sudden?

Sorry to crash the discussion, but any opinions from the board vets much appreciated. Should I jump on the minoxidil wagon...?