Is Proxiphen really a "ripoff"??

[Bryan]

On alt.baldspot over the years, there were posts from various people complaining about the relatively high cost of Dr. Proctor's products. Sometimes they would even attempt to estimate the actual cost of each individual ingredient in a vial of Proxiphen (spironolactone, minoxidil, Retin-A, phenytoin, etc.), and then add it all up and compare that to the $100 price of the vial, then they'd piss and moan for a while about the (apparent) cost disparity. But then one guy wrote what I thought was a very amusing and perceptive response to that complaint! Here it is below, in full:

Newsgroups: alt.baldspot
From: Blad...@webtv.net
Date: 1998/03/05
Subject: Re: Dr. P YOU RIPOFF ARTIST!!!!!

There is a story about the QE2 that is pertinent to this discussion. It seems that the cunard lines built the ship as a technological marvel. It had all the newest and most complex workings.

Yet for some reasons the steam engines kept failing. They tore it down and rebuilt it, consulted experts and such; To no avail.

Finally they went to the engineer who designed the system. He climbed up to the top of the engine and gave a pipe above a good whack with a stick. Vapor lock was freezing the engine.

He submitted a bill for $1000. A huge amount in that time. Cunard sent him a letter to please itemize his expenses. He wrote back "Hitting pipe with stick $1, KNOWING which pipe to hit $999."

Remember, people are paying for intellectual ability more than the price of the finished components.

Blade_9

PS: Next time you order chinese, calculate the cost of the ingredients and try to only pay that. Won't work, you have to pay....to play.

 

[bcapop]

Why open a new thread? :whistle:. If you want a discussion, answer the questions/comments in the other thread "Proxiphen(-N) a scam?"

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43110

 

[Bryan]

I started a new thread because of the complaint in the other one that replies were going off-topic.

This new thread is specifically about whether or not the costs of these products are JUSTIFIED, not whether or not they work per se.

 

[Jacobo]

In short: Expensive, sure. Rip-off...don't think so

Some considerations:

Since 2002, dollar devaluation against euro has made the product a 35% cheaper here. I suppose the perception of Proxiphen would change for all of you, Americans, if the price were 65$$instead of a hundred (or 33 dollars per month on every other day maintenance).

You can buy 5% regaine (minoxidil brand) at the chemist in the UK as expensive as 29.95 £, aprox. 60$. That is a ripoff. Not a scam, obviously. Buy a ripoff because you can buy the generic stuff for 5.90£, roughly 12 $. And they are the same product with different labels. But Proxiphen offers you something exclusive. It did work for me, and I hope I will maintain my results for a long time. If I think the mess and the price of a hair transplant, 50$ per month doesn't sound that bad.

I've read dr Proctor suggesting to a poster on another hairloss site to try Prox-n and minoxidil before Proxiphen "it may be all you need" he said. And, furthermore, stating that Prox-n lite is better value than Prox-n . He considers Proxiphen as a premium product, directed to a certain segment of the market, who decide to pay that extra to avoid the hassle of using 2 or 3 topicals a day, and they want to be sure that they are getting "the best" available. A Bentley costs 10 times more than a Volkswagen. Is it 10 times better? Obviously not. Is it the Bentley a ripoff?

Conclusion: Some people think that everything about dr Proctor is fake. For them, Proxiphen is a scam and a ripoff. For the rest who believe that is good stuff, I guess they wouldn't mind a cheaper price, but they won't consider it a ripoff. My two cents here.

 

[viperfish]

It is still not worth the money, as it is an "unproven" product. :thumbdown2: Let's see some testing. I would like to see a test, in which proxiphen is compared to standard minoxidil 5% and a placebo group. I know Proctor's got some patients still, so let's see it.

 

[phish]

the 100 dollar a month thing really is ridiuculus. if it included dutasteride in it i would be more willing to pay the price, but how is some college kid going to affford 100 dollars for their hair. I think he would gain huge amounts of customers if he lowered it to 50. 50 is a good number and most people will be willing to pay it. when you make a product that costs a 100 dollars a month its going to turn off a ton of people because if you do the math thats 1,200 a year and close 4,000 in 3 years enuff to buy a good hair transplant.

 

[CCS]

buying a Lambrogini is not worth the money to me. I want a Honda civic. but that does not make the Lambrogini a rip off. Buy if you want, or don't buy it.

I won't buy proctors stuff because I've not even seen small invitro studies to back up his ingredients (except for the spironolactone, minoxidil, and a few others I can get myself). But if it works for you, then good for you.

 

[DoctorHouse]

The most important thing to remember about a hair loss treatment is will it regrow hair or cosmetically thicken your hair to a point that you are very satisfied and confident it is helping. People want a guarantee that the product works. I am sure if the cheapest version of minoxidil was $50, everyone concerned about hair loss would still pay that price if that was the only way to save their hair. If Propecia was the only pill available for hair loss was $100 for a months supply, most people will still buy it. Why because it has proven to work. If Proxiphen was FDA proven to regrow hair like minoxidil I think most people will spend the $100. Something that is totally not effective to regrow hair no matter the cost would be a "ripoff" So the point here is because people have options to buy something cheaper, they will as long as it works. I am sure if at least 100 people came on posting they grew more hair with Proxiphen than any other treatment and actually posted before and after photos, more people would buy Proxiphen. Maybe just 10 people might do the trick as well. Most people on this forum would find a way to pay 100 dollars per month for a hair loss treatment that will definitely help maintain or regrow hair. They may complain about the price but you can't put a price on the confidence it will give you if you reverse balding or slow it down. So Proxiphen is definitely not a ripoff as long as it produces results. I am giving it a try because everything else I have tried has not produced drastic results. So far I have noticed a big shed from about 3 months of use but I do see alot of new hairs growing back. The most thing I like about the product is that it only needs to be applied once a day and it has no alcohol. So far I do not think its a ripoff.

 

[phish]

its a ripoff in the sense that in useing it for 2 years, you would of allready spent enuff money for a hair transplant that will grow 10 times more hair then proxiphen and hair will be their for life.

 

[CCS]

its a ripoff in the sense that in useing it for 2 years, you would of allready spent enuff money for a hair transplant that will grow 10 times more hair then proxiphen and hair will be their for life.

hair transplant does not increase your hair count. In two years, $2400 will barely get you 500 grafts. I have 4000 grafts, and my hair is still so thin, and receded enough, that I'm going to shave the grafts and get a hair piece.

The reason I don't use proxiphen is I think phenytoin is androgenic. A growth stimulant too, but androgenic. I've read up on the side effects and it matches an androgenic drug to the T, and all Bryan can say is he trusts Proctor. No studies for NANO either.

But assuming the ingredients work, 12 ingredients in 1 may be worth the price to some people. Obviously not all people.

 

[DoctorHouse]

If I could avoid a hair transplant and all that goes with it, I would gladly rather put a topical on at 100 dollars a vial as long as it regrew or helped me keep my hair. I don't think I would want to walk around a few weeks with tiny scabs and not be able to wash my hair for days. And have scars in the back of my head or spend thousands of dollars and have to wait a year to see if it was worth it. My hair looks like crap if I miss a day of washing it and I do not want to shave my head either. s.a.f. If you had a choice between a topical that would help keep your hair at 100 dollars per month or the choice of a hair transplant what would you pick, knowing what you know now?? I would only get a hair transplant as my last resort.

 

[CCS]

My hair receded 1/4 inch since my surgery. maybe part of that was shock loss. How about paying for hair transplant AND paying for treatments to hold your ground? I was on proscar.

 

[pratc]

I've just written a message and given a link for photos of my son's thinnig hair (top of head) on the 'Success' part of the forum.

I'm not saying the maintenance or slight improvement is from Proxiphen - no doubt Propecia was the main factor. However, Proxiphen has most probably contributed. I'm not going to get into a discussion with those that think Proxiphen is a scam as previously I have given my views.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43492

 

[Bryan]

I'm not saying the maintenance or slight improvement is from Proxiphen - no doubt Propecia was the main factor. However, Proxiphen has most probably contributed. I'm not going to get into a discussion with those that think Proxiphen is a scam as previously I have given my views.

Actually, I think it's a little odd that you would automatically assume that Propecia was "no doubt...the main factor". Personally, I think there's a fair amount of doubt about that.

 

[pratc]

Personally, I think there's a fair amount of doubt about that

Hello Bryan.

I'm doing lots of multitasking today - well that's my excuse :innocent:

I wasn't meaning 'no doubt' to mean I am 100% certain, I was meaning it as 'likely' as in its definition, viz
"no doubt - used to emphasize that what you are saying is true or likely to happen"

I suppose what I was thinking was that as many have success with Propecia - especially maintenance, then it is likely to have had a significant effect on my son. As I hinted in the other linked thread, perhaps growth was due to the Proxiphen. I would like to think they both played a major role - both in maintenance and a little growth from the Proxiphen. I have no reason not to think this is so. How much of a contribution from each? Impossible to tell. Like you told me a long time ago, they compliment each other.

 

[bcapop]

I'm not saying the maintenance or slight improvement is from Proxiphen - no doubt Propecia was the main factor. However, Proxiphen has most probably contributed. I'm not going to get into a discussion with those that think Proxiphen is a scam as previously I have given my views.

Actually, I think it's a little odd that you would automatically assume that Propecia was "no doubt...the main factor". Personally, I think there's a fair amount of doubt about that.

Yeah right... :jump: :devil:

 

[DoctorHouse]

Pratc, during your use of Proxiphen did you ever get an increase in shedding. I am starting to worry because after six weeks on Proxiphen I have shedded so much hair and its still going on since I started in Oct 2007. My hairline has receded more now and its thinner and my widows peak is gone practically. How much more can I wait. I have lost at least 25 percent density in those areas. I cannot understand how this can happen. I have never lost this much hair since Oct my whole life. Its like this stuff is killing my hair follicles. I have alot of little hairs sprouting too but that are little whispy hairs. I am on my second year of Propecia too so why all of sudden such a drastic decline in just the areas I apply the topical. Am I overkilling my treatment and its too much for my follicles to take? Bryan is it possible to overtreat your hair follicles and it can have an adverse effect and cause you to lose hair permanently?

 

[pratc]

Pratc, during your use of Proxiphen did you ever get an increase in shedding

Actually, DoctorHouse, It is my sons that use it. I originally came to the forum asking some questions and have since taken a superficial interest. But to answer you question, the son who has been on Propecia/Proscar and Proxiphen for about 15 months did not shed or so little as not to be noticed. He uses the Proxiphen on the top and for a bit of receding at the front. I have read on here that shedding is no bad thing. You may wonder why I do the research and commenting. It is because even though he is bothered by losing hair so young, it is not so major as to make him want to be thinking about it too much - hence he opted for an easy regime. He is on a fairly small dose of Proscar and Dr Proctor's business have been generous in the 'freebies' they have sent.

I am sorry your regime may not be working for you and I hope others, with more knowledge, can suggest a course of action. Good luck.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I am glad your son's treatments are working. I hope things get better in my case.

 

[Jacobo]

I am starting to worry because after six weeks on Proxiphen I have shedded so much hair and its still going on since I started in Oct 2007. My hairline has receded more now and its thinner and my widows peak is gone practically. How much more can I wait. I have lost at least 25 percent density in those areas. I cannot understand how this can happen. I have never lost this much hair since Oct my whole life. Its like this stuff is killing my hair follicles.

DoctorHouse, if you haven't done it yet, call Dr Proctor. I haven't researched about shedding (it never happened to me). But 25 % density lost while you are in Proxiphen and Finasteride sounds serious. I spoke with Dr Proctor once, just before buying Proxiphen the first time. He was friendly and generous with his time. That was even before I made my mind up about buying his products. I am sure he will advice you better than anyone else here in the forum, with all due respect to Bryan.

Somehow, I read him posting somewhere that as a thomb rule of dermatology, for any topical, 2% of population will react badly to it. I hope your heavy shedding is just the signal that something good is about to start, and not an adverse reaction. But a phone call to Proctor is a must here, IMHO.